Thread: Not looking good for California Prop 8

Originally Posted by Splash Log

No matter what your belief sucks to be jerked around.

Thank the judges who overturned it the first time. The people voted twice now with the same result. I personally don't give a shit who gets married, but the people as a whole apparently do.

Again, the judges should be kicked out. You should not overrule the vote of the people.

Originally Posted by dg806

Again, the judges should be kicked out. You should not overrule the vote of the people.

I've always had a problem with judicial legislation. Judicial legislation is what causes these issues.

I hope people choke on this amendment and the one here in Florida. Ours is very vague and I hope it gets abused. It could disolve many non homosexual marriages as well. I just want to have the ability to share the things everyone else takes for granted with my future partner (insurance, health benefits, and the power of attorney are the big ones for me). Besides, it is still possible to try to bring this to the Supreme Court as maybe a civil rights issue or something (we also have good lawyers - and remember that it took several acts of congress to give African-Americans the ability to get a home loan in some areas, so I'd say this isn't over at all).

I still say we need a constitutional amendment to ban all divorce in order to make sure that children grow up in an appropriate environment (a mother and father). We could even make separations punishable by prision time (all in the name of preserving the "sanctity" of marriage - most of which don't seem to last - I think the number fluctuates around 50%).

Originally Posted by tallcall

I hope people choke on this amendment and the one here in Florida. Ours is very vague and I hope it gets abused. It could disolve many non homosexual marriages as well. I just want to have the ability to share the things everyone else takes for granted with my future partner (insurance, health benefits, and the power of attorney are the big ones for me). Besides, it is still possible to try to bring this to the Supreme Court as maybe a civil rights issue or something (we also have good lawyers - and remember that it took several acts of congress to give African-Americans the ability to get a home loan in some areas, so I'd say this isn't over at all).

I still say we need a constitutional amendment to ban all divorce in order to make sure that children grow up in an appropriate environment (a mother and father). We could even make separations punishable by prision time (all in the name of preserving the "sanctity" of marriage - most of which don't seem to last - I think the number fluctuates around 50%).

Be patient dude. You will have your right to marry a life partner soon. I predict this happen very soon. This country is making a cultural shift, and the religious right is on their way out.

Originally Posted by tallcall

I hope people choke on this amendment and the one here in Florida. Ours is very vague and I hope it gets abused. It could disolve many non homosexual marriages as well. I just want to have the ability to share the things everyone else takes for granted with my future partner (insurance, health benefits, and the power of attorney are the big ones for me). Besides, it is still possible to try to bring this to the Supreme Court as maybe a civil rights issue or something (we also have good lawyers - and remember that it took several acts of congress to give African-Americans the ability to get a home loan in some areas, so I'd say this isn't over at all).

I still say we need a constitutional amendment to ban all divorce in order to make sure that children grow up in an appropriate environment (a mother and father). We could even make separations punishable by prision time (all in the name of preserving the "sanctity" of marriage - most of which don't seem to last - I think the number fluctuates around 50%).

I won't address the second part of your post. I recognize you are angry at the outcome. and maybe rightfully so.

I really don't see this as a civil rights issue. This is not blacks getting the right to vote. I don't think that this is a supreme court type of issue, or something that they would take. It is pretty well accepted that legally this is a state matter. I really don't have any problems with POA. If a man wants to give POA to another man I don't think his parents have any right to challenge that. healthcare and insurance become a little more muddled in my mind. I'm still undecided. If we can agree on one thing however it is that this fight is far from over for either side. 52% is a majority, but what it really says is not yet. we are not ready.

Originally Posted by KelJu

Be patient dude. You will have your right to marry a life partner soon. I predict this happen very soon. This country is making a cultural shift, and the religious right is on their way out.

Guys like you and most everyone else on this board are really too kind to me! I'm just kind of angry right now. I do appreciate the opposing opinions presented here because they are more "matter of fact" and honest and not as caustic as they are in other arenas (political mailers for example). So thanks to everyone for making their respective arguements.

i think it's fucking bullshit to say the church and state are separate but then say gays are for some reason not allowed the same rights straight people are..... the fucking argument always goes to the bible which is supposed to have no place in our laws. too bad they separated church and state and forgot to separate BULLSHIT and state. i love my country but sometimes the shit is so deep i want to puke. politics have a way of making it so people can't see stupid.

Originally Posted by Little Wing

i think it's fucking bullshit to say the church and state are separate but then say gays are for some reason not allowed the same rights straight people are..... the fucking argument always goes to the bible which is supposed to have no place in our laws. too bad they separated church and state and forgot to separate BULLSHIT and state. i love my country but sometimes the shit is so deep i want to puke. politics have a way of making it so people can't see stupid.

I'm not sure your seeing the full ramifications of this. This also gets into the impact this is going to have on churches. This is not black and white. This is a very complicated issue

Originally Posted by tallcall

I hope people choke on this amendment and the one here in Florida. Ours is very vague and I hope it gets abused. It could disolve many non homosexual marriages as well. I just want to have the ability to share the things everyone else takes for granted with my future partner (insurance, health benefits, and the power of attorney are the big ones for me). Besides, it is still possible to try to bring this to the Supreme Court as maybe a civil rights issue or something (we also have good lawyers - and remember that it took several acts of congress to give African-Americans the ability to get a home loan in some areas, so I'd say this isn't over at all).

I still say we need a constitutional amendment to ban all divorce in order to make sure that children grow up in an appropriate environment (a mother and father). We could even make separations punishable by prision time (all in the name of preserving the "sanctity" of marriage - most of which don't seem to last - I think the number fluctuates around 50%).

although I do agree with yuo 100% with your first paragraph, i must say that banning the ability to divorce is not going to prevent inappropriate environments for children. What you would be doing is forcing couple to either live together that dont get along, which will cause more problems for the children, or you will have an increase in marital affairs...divorce isn't a good thing, but without it, problems would increase.

Originally Posted by bio-chem

I'm not sure your seeing the full ramifications of this. This also gets into the impact this is going to have on churches. This is not black and white. This is a very complicated issue

little wing, you are 100% correct, if you look back we had a simple post on prop 8 last week and it turned into world war 3 in here, i see this re-emerging, im finding a falloutshelter.

Originally Posted by KelJu

This country is making a cultural shift, and the religious right is on their way out.

Obama handily won California: over 6 million votes. Why do you blame this passage on the religious right?

The far-right religious vote you're speaking of would not have gone for Obama.

Originally Posted by busyLivin

Obama handily won California: over 6 million votes for Obama. Why do you blame this passage on the religious right?

The far-right religious vote you're speaking of would not have gone for Obama.

because it is easy

Originally Posted by dg806

Again, the judges should be kicked out. You should not overrule the vote of the people.

right, I mean we those judges shouldn't have let coloreds into public schools in the south...after all, the will of the majority.



/sarcasm

Originally Posted by Little Wing

i think it's fucking bullshit to say the church and state are separate but then say gays are for some reason not allowed the same rights straight people are..... the fucking argument always goes to the bible which is supposed to have no place in our laws. too bad they separated church and state and forgot to separate BULLSHIT and state. i love my country but sometimes the shit is so deep i want to puke. politics have a way of making it so people can't see stupid.

Again, you can't have it both ways. You're saying religious people are to blame for the passage, but these same "religious right" gave Obama an easy victory in California.


You need a new scapegoat, because the religious had an awful lot of help.

Originally Posted by lnvanry

right, I mean we those judges shouldn't have let coloreds into public schools in the south...after all, the will of the majority.



/sarcasm

these situations are nothing alike

Originally Posted by busyLivin

Obama handily won California: over 6 million votes. Why do you blame this passage on the religious right?

The far-right religious vote you're speaking of would not have gone for Obama.

I am confused. I didn't say the religious right had anything to do wit hthe outcome of the election.

Originally Posted by KelJu

I am confused. I didn't say the religious right had anything to do wit hthe outcome of the election.

no you were saying that the religious right was responsible for proposition 8 passing.

His point is that those who are not of the religious right who overwhelmingly voted for obama to be president in california also voted to pass prop 8

Dear Lord:

SAVE ME FROM YOUR FOLLOWERS, For they know not what they do!!!!

I found it amusing that so many states banned gay marriage and the right for gay couples to adopt, but abortion was a-OK for lots of states.

Moral of the story: It's ok to kill babies, as long as we're not putting children in the loving arms of gay couples.

Originally Posted by busyLivin

Again, you can't have it both ways. You're saying religious people are to blame for the passage, but these same "religious right" gave Obama an easy victory in California.


You need a new scapegoat, because the religious had an awful lot of help.

i just think people in general are nosy judgmental assholes that like to get their nose up about shit they have NO RIGHT sticking their noses in. i bet you dollars to donuts some dried up old cunt whose successful marriage was a result of ignoring the fact her husband fucked his secretary for 20 years or was molesting little girls voted not to let gay people get married so she could preserve the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman. puleeeassse

people in this country want to tell other people whether they can use a vibrator, suck their husbands dick etc but it's perfectly legal to cut your cock in half and post pics of that online if it trips your trigger.


my heart should decide whether i love bob or linda not some moral in his own mind law making dipshit with his nose up my ass.

Originally Posted by bio-chem

no you were saying that the religious right was responsible for proposition 8 passing.

His point is that those who are not of the religious right who overwhelmingly voted for obama to be president in california also voted to pass prop 8

I was saying that gay rights will be a big issue at the federal level in the following years.

i wonder how many people who voted to pass prop 8 are cheating on their opposite sex spouses? beating their kids? beating their wives? been divorced? will be divorced? are plotting to kill their spouse? want to see their wife with another woman?

Originally Posted by Little Wing

i just think people in general are nosy judgmental assholes that like to get their nose up about shit they have NO RIGHT sticking their noses in. i bet you dollars to donuts some dried up old cunt whose successful marriage was a result of ignoring the fact her husband fucked his secretary for 20 years or was molesting little girls voted not to let gay people get married so she could preserve the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman. puleeeassse

people in this country want to tell other people whether they can use a vibrator, suck their husbands dick etc but it's perfectly legal to cut your cock in half and post pics of that online if it trips your trigger.


my heart should decide whether i love bob or linda not some moral in his own mind law making dipshit with his nose up my ass.

just curious, but did you read any of the links posted in the previous thread on this subject?

Originally Posted by busyLivin

Obama handily won California: over 6 million votes. Why do you blame this passage on the religious right?

The far-right religious vote you're speaking of would not have gone for Obama.

I agree. The 6 million + liberal voters that elected Obama should have voted this down if that was the case. It clearly shows that even liberals, are still not ready and the country as a whole not ready to accept this.

Originally Posted by KelJu

I was saying that gay rights will be a big issue at the federal level in the following years.

I tend to disagree. This is a state matter. If this went to a federal level it would get crushed. If you put this up to a vote of the people nationally. then overwhelmingly a prop 8 measure would pass. 52% voted for it in a liberal state. how many other states out there are as liberal overall as california? not many. If you put this measure to the federal level a higher percentage than 52% would vote for it. The united states is not ready for gay marriage. not yet

Originally Posted by dg806

I agree. The 6 million + liberal voters that elected Obama should have voted this down if that was the case. It clearly shows that even liberals, are still not ready and the country as a whole not ready to accept this.

Originally Posted by bio-chem

just curious, but did you read any of the links posted in the previous thread on this subject?

i saw it briefly when the thread started. so i'm prob repeating whats already been said.

i'm just really good at putting myself in the other guys shoes. and i think to tell me i cannot love who i love, declare our bond and commitment to each other, raise some kids everyone seems to think its ok to murder in the first trimester instead, and be affordred the same legal and community support as other families and couples is an abomination.