Slow Economy = More Speeding Tickets

**Fetusaurus Rex** · 01-12-2009, 08:56 PM

newsobserver.com | Ticket writing rises in a slump, study finds

Ticket writing rises in a slump, study finds

Steve Harrison, Charlotte Observer Comment on this story
The economy is in the toilet. So do yourself a favor and ease up on the accelerator.

That's the indirect message of a recent study by two economists, who found that when government revenues dry up, police write more speeding tickets. After analyzing 14 years of data in North Carolina, the pair found that for every 1 percent drop in government revenue, the number of traffic tickets issued per capita increases by 30 percent the following year.

"It's significant," said University of Arkansas-Little Rock economics professor Gary A. Wagner, who co-wrote Red Ink in the Rearview Mirror: Local Fiscal Conditions and the Issuance of Traffic Tickets. "If there was no revenue for issuing tickets, I wouldn't expect the unemployment rate and revenue to be related."

The study, which analyzed data from 1989 to 2003, found the fewest number of tickets issued in North Carolina was in 2000, after nearly a decade of economic growth. Roughly 645,000 tickets were written that year. The highest number of tickets came two years later, when governments were trying to recover from the post-9/11 recession, and issued roughly 768,000.

Wagner said the study reinforced an accepted theory among economists: Incentives matter.

"If local governments are somehow involved in the revenue that gets generated, there's an incentive to get more revenue," Wagner said.

For some, the idea of government relying on lead-footed drivers to balance the budget isn't new. Drivers warn one another about small-town speed traps, and it's widely assumed that tickets are being written with more than public safety in mind.

Wagner said there are numerous anecdotes nationwide of such practices, such as the mayor of Nashville, Tenn., proposing two years ago a 33 percent increase in ticket revenue in his budget.

Wagner's co-author, Thomas Garrett, is an assistant vice president at the St. Louis Federal Reserve. North Carolina was chosen as a case study simply because the state had good data.

During the study period, the state issued 11 tickets for every 100 residents. Dare County had the highest rate, at 29 per 100. Caldwell County was the lowest, at 6 per 100.

**soxmuscle** · 01-12-2009, 11:17 PM

The whole policing system is flawed.

Officers are paid based of how many people they pull over, as are the Sheriff's who run the departments.

It makes sense that this kind of shenanigans would happen given the current system.

It's no longer about protecting and serving, it's about making as much money as possible and in some cases, killing you:

**ZECH** · 01-13-2009, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

Officers are paid based of how many people they pull over

Why do people believe this?? That is complete BS........
Wait, I got to write this guy a ticket......

**largepkg** · 01-13-2009, 09:42 AM

Maybe in certain small towns there are quotas but my father was a captain here in South Florida and he always laughed at the douche bag public who believed it. He said the majority of their speed traps were done because of public out cry on speeders in a given area.

He did say that the funds derived form tickets were split between his department and the state though, with the majority going to the state.

**Fetusaurus Rex** · 01-13-2009, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by largepkg

Maybe in certain small towns there are quotas but my father was a captain here in South Florida and he always laughed at the douche bag public who believed it. He said the majority of their speed traps were done because of public out cry on speeders in a given area.

He did say that the funds derived form tickets were split between his department and the state though, with the majority going to the state.

I believe you on that but I wonder how that rumor got started? I hear about stuff like that in songs and movies(I know movies are a huge stretch of the imagination on what a cops job really is) Im just curious...

**DOMS** · 01-13-2009, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by largepkg

Maybe in certain small towns there are quotas but my father was a captain here in South Florida and he always laughed at the douche bag public who believed it. He said the majority of their speed traps were done because of public out cry on speeders in a given area.

He did say that the funds derived form tickets were split between his department and the state though, with the majority going to the state.

There was a city in Florida, about 8 years ago, that decided to increase its revenue by ticketing every single offender that passed through. I believe they were in a spot where people going to Disney Florida. They were so excited that they were getting so much more money. Then...the word got out about what they were doing and everyone bypassed them, cutting down not only revenue from tickets, but also killing most of their companies that relied on tourists (such as gas stations, markets, etc.).

**largepkg** · 01-13-2009, 10:20 AM

I don't doubt it happens in small cities and towns but based on what my pops said the percentage the city gets is fractional compared to the state.

**Stewart14** · 01-13-2009, 10:25 AM

funny you bring this up, just this past weekend on the highways here on long island that have state police patrolling them, I noticed at least 6 people pulled over, and I commented to my wife, wtf is with all these troopers, I have never seen anything like it. I rarely see anyone pulled over when I go on my short drives on the highways, but this was 6 PEOPLE. Yep, NY state wants more money. Bastards.

**Fetusaurus Rex** · 01-13-2009, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by largepkg

I don't doubt it happens in small cities and towns but based on what my pops said the percentage the city gets is fractional compared to the state.

Not about the money but about the quota thing, I wonder where that got started? That cops have a criteria to pull over a certain amount of people every month....? They even mention something about that on Super Troopers...yea I know that is a comedy and most shit on there is probably false, but people all over the country think that is what happens...again Im just curious...

**largepkg** · 01-13-2009, 10:40 AM

Probably cause its true in backass country fuck departments.

Now that I think about it maybe the staties too since the funds goto the state.

**QuestionGuy** · 01-13-2009, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Fetusaurus Rex

I believe you on that but I wonder how that rumor got started? I hear about stuff like that in songs and movies(I know movies are a huge stretch of the imagination on what a cops job really is) Im just curious...

Where do you live?? Ill take you to work with me, and you will forever be on my side on every argument there is about this kind of stuff, really........Second, Yes the CITY wants us to write many tickets because it helps pay for all the everyday things that every citizen uses all the time...But the police department is in a catch 22, they must build public relations AND enforce the law....Many of us are mad at the city right now so even the ones who liked enforcing traffic rules, are laying off because the city makes themselves look good thru our backs, it's easy to blame the cops for every problem they have....in the years i have been a cop, I have writen 2 speeding tickets and im dead serious about that....there is no quotas, it's been days since i filled out a citation for anything but a no insurance ticket, that pisses me off.....second, when you see cops ppulling over people open your mind a little and think, most the time we pull people over is to chekc them for warrants and see if they have anything illegal on them...I have caught wanted rapists and pounds of crack with a simple traffic stop....there is no such thing as a quota....

And SoxMuscle, you are not even worth proving way wrong because you are so special that you need a helmet just to go online......and we can't blame it on your young age either because when I was your age i was half way done with my BA degree, bought my own home and started my career.....little man power syndrome...You are power hungry and that is why you don;t like the very same people who might save you from dying one day, because you are powerless against them....grow up!

**QuestionGuy** · 01-13-2009, 11:23 AM

Yeah I know I talk to much, but that is because i have been on both sides of the argument, i have been a pot smoking teenager who ran drunk from a housparty when the cops showed up, only to realise that they are not chasing me at all because they dont give a shit and all they are there to do is tell us to quiet down......BUT just like we discussed the other day I want you guys to read "A professor's Street Lessons" by george L. kirkham, This is from a guy who spent years teaching law at some univercity and how is an expert on it, he was always first to criticise police and was not a suporter at all untill he was challenged to become a cop.... if you are truly interested in learning about the reality of police careers then you must read this and you will learn instead of just making comments that are not true....If you cant find it online, i will find a way to post the whole thing...

**Fetusaurus Rex** · 01-13-2009, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by QuestionGuy

Where do you live?? Ill take you to work with me, and you will forever be on my side on every argument there is about this kind of stuff, really........Second, Yes the CITY wants us to write many tickets because it helps pay for all the everyday things that every citizen uses all the time...But the police department is in a catch 22, they must build public relations AND enforce the law....Many of us are mad at the city right now so even the ones who liked enforcing traffic rules, are laying off because the city makes themselves look good thru our backs, it's easy to blame the cops for every problem they have....in the years i have been a cop, I have writen 2 speeding tickets and im dead serious about that....there is no quotas, it's been days since i filled out a citation for anything but a no insurance ticket, that pisses me off.....second, when you see cops ppulling over people open your mind a little and think, most the time we pull people over is to chekc them for warrants and see if they have anything illegal on them...I have caught wanted rapists and pounds of crack with a simple traffic stop....there is no such thing as a quota....

And SoxMuscle, you are not even worth proving way wrong because you are so special that you need a helmet just to go online......and we can't blame it on your young age either because when I was your age i was half way done with my BA degree, bought my own home and started my career.....little man power syndrome...You are power hungry and that is why you don;t like the very same people who might save you from dying one day, because you are powerless against them....grow up!

You always have way longer of a reply than is necessary, and you really need to relax, I am not arguing, I am inquiring....I don't know the answer, therefore it makes sense to ask someone who might know...?

Settle down.

**Fetusaurus Rex** · 01-13-2009, 11:32 AM

btw, it is not my fault that the media finds the work of policemen a hot topic at the moment, I apologize for sharing this news with the forum...

I said many times over that I have nothing against cops, not at all in fact....

I am just sharing what I find interesting on Yahoo News...

I did argue a little in the last thread, because again I don't understand what it is like to be a cop obviously, and I am a little surprised by what protocol is....That story was shocking to me and I reacted while being upset by what I read....That is all that I put into that.....

**QuestionGuy** · 01-13-2009, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Fetusaurus Rex

You always have way longer of a reply than is necessary, and you really need to relax, I am not arguing, I am inquiring....I don't know the answer, therefore it makes sense to ask someone who might know...?

Settle down.

i didn't think you are arguing, really, i wasn't...im not arguing, and yes i should relax, but it's hard to relax...it's like when someone says that "steroids are bad" I get all wokred up and most of you as well, because it simply not true......I was just implying that i would really love to take you to work wiht me if u ever stop by here....then I could show you what a real BMW is, and then we can drink some awesome utah beer, yes utah has good beer

**Fetusaurus Rex** · 01-13-2009, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by QuestionGuy

i didn't think you are arguing, really, i wasn't...im not arguing, and yes i should relax, but it's hard to relax...it's like when someone says that "steroids are bad" I get all wokred up and most of you as well, because it simply not true......I was just implying that i would really love to take you to work wiht me if u ever stop by here....then I could show you what a real BMW is, and then we can drink some awesome utah beer, yes utah has good beer

Originally Posted by QuestionGuy

Where do you live?? Ill take you to work with me, and you will forever be on my side on every argument there is about this kind of stuff, really........

If you didnt think I was arguing you still said I was...

but it is cool, no worries sir, that would be fun I bet hahah to tag along and not have to file all the paperwork

**QuestionGuy** · 01-13-2009, 11:41 AM

Don't call me sir dude, im only 24...and off duty im just like everyone else, minus the illegal activity....well, driving my M3 thru the city is more like an infraction more or less...

**Fetusaurus Rex** · 01-13-2009, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by QuestionGuy

Don't call me sir dude, im only 24...and off duty im just like everyone else, minus the illegal activity....well, driving my M3 thru the city is more like an infraction more or less...

I actually call everyone sir, that wasn't a cop reference hah I don't know how this habit started, but I call everyone sir...

**min0 lee** · 01-13-2009, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by QuestionGuy

Where do you live?? Ill take you to work with me,

Pistol whip that perp......cuff me later.

**min0 lee** · 01-13-2009, 01:14 PM

We normally get tickets at the ending of every month..

Now the people I hate are the brownies, they will write fake tickets to meet quotas.

**AKIRA** · 01-13-2009, 01:39 PM

Ive been told that there arent quotas, but I just dont believe it 100%.

Ive never received a break from tickets and yet Ive always been polite and cordial. Always had my license and insurance out and ready, always had my hands where they could see them.

Guess what? One of the last times I got a ticket, the cocksucker wanted to give me a ticket for no seatbelt. Moron never thought to consider that perhaps I took the belt off to GET MY FUCKING LICENSE OUT OF MY POCKET.

Now that cop, I was rude too. Shit, if I am going to get a ticket anyway.. Jerkoff. Heh. Get a job.

**ZECH** · 01-13-2009, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Ive been told that there arent quotas, but I just dont believe it 100%.

Ive never received a break from tickets and yet Ive always been polite and cordial. Always had my license and insurance out and ready, always had my hands where they could see them.

Guess what? One of the last times I got a ticket, the cocksucker wanted to give me a ticket for no seatbelt. Moron never thought to consider that perhaps I took the belt off to GET MY FUCKING LICENSE OUT OF MY POCKET.

Now that cop, I was rude too. Shit, if I am going to get a ticket anyway.. Jerkoff. Heh. Get a job.

I live in a small town and there is not quota and we receive 0 for each ticket we write. We don't get shit. If anybody does, it's news to me. The only thing I know is that if you want to get grants for equiment, such as radars, DUI equipment, or anything traffic related, the more you can show a need for it(such a s traffic control-tickets, speeding) you stand a better chance at getting the grant. But you don't write alot of tickets just to try to get a grant.
And he does have a job......upholding traffic laws of your state. Doesn't mean that he likes them or agrees with them, he just enforces the law on people that break them. If he doesn't, they don't have a need for him. A small town is tough too. You don't write any tickets, people complain you don't do your job. Write too many, and people complain you were picking on them, You can't win. Got to find a happy medium.

**PreMier** · 01-13-2009, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by QuestionGuy

Don't call me sir dude, im only 24...and off duty im just like everyone else, minus the illegal activity....well, driving my M3 thru the city is more like an infraction more or less...

m3.. pfft weak sauce

**AKIRA** · 01-13-2009, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by dg806

I live in a small town and there is not quota and we receive 0 for each ticket we write. We don't get shit. If anybody does, it's news to me. The only thing I know is that if you want to get grants for equiment, such as radars, DUI equipment, or anything traffic related, the more you can show a need for it(such a s traffic control-tickets, speeding) you stand a better chance at getting the grant. But you don't write alot of tickets just to try to get a grant.And he does have a job......upholding traffic laws of your state. Doesn't mean that he likes them or agrees with them, he just enforces the law on people that break them. If he doesn't, they don't have a need for him. A small town is tough too. You don't write any tickets, people complain you don't do your job. Write too many, and people complain you were picking on them, You can't win. Got to find a happy medium.

Why not?

**The Monkey Man** · 01-14-2009, 05:45 AM

They're installing speed camera systems like crazy around here...

Now they just approved installing intersection, and train x-ing, cameras...

They already had the first RIF of the city police force.

**ZECH** · 01-14-2009, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Why not?

First, the tickets would need to be justified. Do you want cops writing tickets for no reason? I don't and I won't. I do more verbal warnings than anything. It takes care of it most of the time. If not, since it is a smal town, if they are caught again, then they get a ticket. I treat people how I would want to be treated, but yet I think I am firm when I need to be. Plus who wants to spend days off in court?

**largepkg** · 01-14-2009, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by dg806

First, the tickets would need to be justified. Do you want cops writing tickets for no reason? I don't and I won't. I do more verbal warnings than anything. It takes care of it most of the time. If not, since it is a smal town, if they are caught again, then they get a ticket. I treat people how I would want to be treated, but yet I think I am firm when I need to be. Plus who wants to spend days off in court?

Maybe not you, but my pops loved going to court and picking up time and a half.

**AKIRA** · 01-14-2009, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by dg806

First, the tickets would need to be justified. Do you want cops writing tickets for no reason? I don't and I won't. I do more verbal warnings than anything. It takes care of it most of the time. If not, since it is a smal town, if they are caught again, then they get a ticket. I treat people how I would want to be treated, but yet I think I am firm when I need to be. Plus who wants to spend days off in court?

I wouldnt....all the time.

However, do all court appearances happen to fall on a day off? Why couldnt you make an appearance on an on day?

**QuestionGuy** · 01-14-2009, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by AKIRA

I wouldnt....all the time.

However, do all court appearances happen to fall on a day off? Why couldnt you make an appearance on an on day?

i fuckin hate court, i was supposed to go today but i told the prosecutor that im out of town...i dont care about the money bull shit......But your expectations are unreal dude, really.....yes court falls on on days as well but most cops have 3 days off in a week and unless you have been on for many years, you dont have weekends off...so if you have Wed, Thru, Fri off, you are more likely to got to court off duty, thus collecting 3 hours call out and double time (in my city) for court.......Making it on your days off ONLY is not realistic..

**ZECH** · 01-15-2009, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by AKIRA

I wouldnt....all the time.

However, do all court appearances happen to fall on a day off? Why couldnt you make an appearance on an on day?

Around here, you don't get paid for being in court. You get comp time.
And you have to go on days off because they would have to pay someone else to cover your shift.

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