Bleeding Heart Tightwads

**busyLivin** · 01-16-2009, 09:53 AM

By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

This holiday season is a time to examine who’s been naughty and who’s been nice, but I’m unhappy with my findings. The problem is this: We liberals are personally stingy.

Liberals show tremendous compassion in pushing for generous government spending to help the neediest people at home and abroad. Yet when it comes to individual contributions to charitable causes, liberals are cheapskates.

Arthur Brooks, the author of a book on donors to charity, “Who Really Cares,” cites data that households headed by conservatives give 30 percent more to charity than households headed by liberals. A study by Google found an even greater disproportion: average annual contributions reported by conservatives were almost double those of liberals.

Other research has reached similar conclusions. The “generosity index” from the Catalogue for Philanthropy typically finds that red states are the most likely to give to nonprofits, while Northeastern states are least likely to do so.

The upshot is that Democrats, who speak passionately about the hungry and homeless, personally fork over less money to charity than Republicans — the ones who try to cut health insurance for children.

“When I started doing research on charity,” Mr. Brooks wrote, “I expected to find that political liberals — who, I believed, genuinely cared more about others than conservatives did — would turn out to be the most privately charitable people. So when my early findings led me to the opposite conclusion, I assumed I had made some sort of technical error. I re-ran analyses. I got new data. Nothing worked. In the end, I had no option but to change my views.”

Something similar is true internationally. European countries seem to show more compassion than America in providing safety nets for the poor, and they give far more humanitarian foreign aid per capita than the United States does. But as individuals, Europeans are far less charitable than Americans.

Americans give sums to charity equivalent to 1.67 percent of G.N.P., according to a terrific new book, “Philanthrocapitalism,” by Matthew Bishop and Michael Green. The British are second, with 0.73 percent, while the stingiest people on the list are the French, at 0.14 percent.

(Looking away from politics, there’s evidence that one of the most generous groups in America is gays. Researchers believe that is because they are less likely to have rapacious heirs pushing to keep wealth in the family.)

When liberals see the data on giving, they tend to protest that conservatives look good only because they shower dollars on churches — that a fair amount of that money isn’t helping the poor, but simply constructing lavish spires.

It’s true that religion is the essential reason conservatives give more, and religious liberals are as generous as religious conservatives. Among the stingiest of the stingy are secular conservatives.

According to Google’s figures, if donations to all religious organizations are excluded, liberals give slightly more to charity than conservatives do. But Mr. Brooks says that if measuring by the percentage of income given, conservatives are more generous than liberals even to secular causes.

In any case, if conservative donations often end up building extravagant churches, liberal donations frequently sustain art museums, symphonies, schools and universities that cater to the well-off. (It’s great to support the arts and education, but they’re not the same as charity for the needy. And some research suggests that donations to education actually increase inequality because they go mostly to elite institutions attended by the wealthy.)

Conservatives also appear to be more generous than liberals in nonfinancial ways. People in red states are considerably more likely to volunteer for good causes, and conservatives give blood more often. If liberals and moderates gave blood as often as conservatives, Mr. Brooks said, the American blood supply would increase by 45 percent.

So, you’ve guessed it! This column is a transparent attempt this holiday season to shame liberals into being more charitable. Since I often scold Republicans for being callous in their policies toward the needy, it seems only fair to reproach Democrats for being cheap in their private donations. What I want for Christmas is a healthy competition between left and right to see who actually does more for the neediest.

Of course, given the economic pinch these days, charity isn’t on the top of anyone’s agenda. Yet the financial ability to contribute to charity, and the willingness to do so, are strikingly unrelated. Amazingly, the working poor, who have the least resources, somehow manage to be more generous as a percentage of income than the middle class.

So, even in tough times, there are ways to help. Come on liberals, redeem yourselves, and put your wallets where your hearts are.

**QuestionGuy** · 01-16-2009, 11:18 AM

kill'em with fire

**maniclion** · 01-16-2009, 12:33 PM

"So, you’ve guessed it! This column is a transparent attempt this holiday season to shame liberals into being more charitable"

**KelJu** · 01-16-2009, 02:18 PM

Somehow that shit seems even dumber now than it did two years ago when I first heard of the book on Berkley Science Grok.

First of all, the whole "liberals want to take your money and give it the neediest people at home and abroad" argument is stupid as shit. Its not about taking more money. Its about using the money that is already being taken, and using it in different ways.

The Bush administration spent money like it was going out of style, and all we have to show for it is a drawn out war effort and a busted ass economy, so give that shit a rest.

Now conservatives do give more money. It is required by the church as a way into heaven that you give to the church and charity. So, that much is true.

Now with that being said, let me explain something that people should understand already. Progressive states with higher taxes divert those taxes to education. The most highly educated states are overwhelmingly liberal progressive states. The least educated states are all conservative states.

There is statistical index called the livability index that is calculated using many factors. If you are curious, you can check out the link below.

Most Livable State 2006 Factors

The least most livable states in this country are all conservative states. There is also an index I saw not too long ago that showed the breakdown of mean obesity rates ranked by state. Guess what, they are all conservative states. Woohoo! So the overwhelmingly conservative states are fat, dumb, and miserable. So what about that charity from those churches? It sure ain't fucking helping those who need it.

I'm going to go off on a tangent, and then come right back. The conservatives who are so proud of what they give to their church need to understand that giving for the sake of giving is useless if you don't help anybody with what you give. Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; teach a man how to fish, and you feed him for life. Giving to the homeless and to the church is all well and good, but progressives want to prevent that man from becoming homeless in the first place by addressing his problems when he is a child. They want him to be educated, happy, and healthy. They want his problems to be addressed while he can still be helped. Not when he is 50 fucking years old walking the streets begging for food and money.

Ok, now coming back to point. The progressive liberal states want their money to be taking out of their pay, organized, and then filtered into their states educational systems, public services, and their health care systems. They want happy healthy functional adults. They want a state that is livable.

Because they want the money organized by the government and diverted into public services isn't being tight waded. It is about proven methods for improving the condition of life for everyone.

Ok, now that I have shit on conservatives good and nasty like, I'll flip the the other side. The part about conservatives donating their time and giving blood more is true. It shows a genuine desire to help others and to serve a purpose greater then just themselves. It makes me think that they aren't assholes, just a little misguided in their efforts. I also see where many conservatives get a sense of liberals being snobby. Conservatives want the chance to choose for themselves where the money should go, and liberals want to legislate to everyone where the money should go.

I believe the progressive liberal states are making better choices for how their money should be spent, but I don't think that gives them the right to dictate the rest of the country. There should be less federal tax, and more state tax. Each state should decide how their money will be spent. The outcome would probably be dumber poorer, and fatter red states, but hey, the price of freedom is to suffer the consequences of your bad decisions.

**busyLivin** · 01-16-2009, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by KelJu

Now conservatives do give more money. It is required by the church as a way into heaven that you give to the church and charity

Which church might that be?

**busyLivin** · 01-16-2009, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by KelJu

Because they want the money organized by the government and diverted into public services isn't being tight waded. It is about proven methods for improving the condition of life for everyone.

You've got to be kidding me. That's why liberals won't donate? Because they already are? So in they're mind, they've donated what was required & that was sufficient.

You are saying conservatives are dumb, so maybe they don't know they are already contributing to public services & are only donating more on top because they are too dense to realize that?!?

Give me a break.

I liken this to liberals talking about global warming & conservation on their personal jets.. They can talk the talk, but won't walk the walk.

**maniclion** · 01-16-2009, 02:34 PM

If it were true and supported by facts then the only reasoning behind it would be that conservatives feel so guilty about being war mongers and kicking bums that they donate to make themselves feel better but that's their problem they are so concerned with money that they think throwing some around will save their soul.....

**busyLivin** · 01-16-2009, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by maniclion

If it were true and supported by facts then the only reasoning behind it would be that conservatives feel so guilty about being war mongers and kicking bums that they donate to make themselves feel better but that's their problem they are so concerned with money that they think throwing some around will save their soul.....

You're right...couldn't possibly be because in general conservatives actually give of themselves more than liberals do.

**KelJu** · 01-16-2009, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by busyLivin

You're right...couldn't possibly be because in general conservatives actually give of themselves more than liberals do.

Manic was making a sarcastic joke dude. Jesus Christ, don't take everything so literally!

**busyLivin** · 01-16-2009, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by KelJu

Manic was making a sarcastic joke dude. Jesus Christ, don't take everything so literally!

Maybe he was joking (maybe not), but most liberals I know believe exactly that.

**KelJu** · 01-16-2009, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by busyLivin

Maybe he was joking (maybe not), but most liberals I know believe exactly that.

No "maybe" to it. It was a joke not to be taken literally.

But, you know, this explains a lot to me about the nature of your post.

**busyLivin** · 01-16-2009, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by KelJu

But, you know, this explains a lot to me about the nature of your post.

That I think conservatism is better than liberalism? I do.

**KelJu** · 01-16-2009, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by busyLivin

That I think conservatism is better than liberalism? I do.

No, it tells me one of two things. Either you mostly hang around idiots, or you have zero ability to to decipher sarcasm.

**DOMS** · 01-16-2009, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by KelJu

No, it tells me one of two things. Either you mostly hang around idiots, or you have zero ability to to decipher sarcasm.

Based on other comments that I've seen Manic make over the years, I'm not so sure that was said in jest.

**KelJu** · 01-16-2009, 04:43 PM

So let me get this straight.

You guys think manic believes that church ladies and respected men of the church go out in the night kicking bums around, but when Sunday comes, they are going to church and giving lots of money, because they feel guilty about it. And, then Monday comes around and they are watching the news and talking about how well the war effort is going, but next Sunday rolls around so they are feeling guilty once again for supporting the war effort. So, they give some more to ease their guilt.

**busyLivin** · 01-16-2009, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by KelJu

No, it tells me one of two things. Either you mostly hang around idiots, or you have zero ability to to decipher sarcasm.

most of my friends are liberal, so you're right on that one

**DOMS** · 01-16-2009, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by KelJu

So let me get this straight.

You guys think manic believes that church ladies and respected men of the church go out in the night kicking bums around, but when Sunday comes, they are going to church and giving lots of money, because they feel guilty about it. And, then Monday comes around and they are watching the news and talking about how well the war effort is going, but next Sunday rolls around so they are feeling guilty once again for supporting the war effort. So, they give some more to ease their guilt.

I'm not taking it 100% literal. Manic is passive-aggressive (at least on IM), I believe it's a barb coated in excessiveness.

**KelJu** · 01-16-2009, 04:53 PM

Ok, I'll try to see this from a different perspective. I could fathom the idea of someone believing that giving at church eases their conscious.

Its not much different than the Buddhist idea of karma. They believe we have good karma and bad karma and that doing good things can burn up bad karma. And, maybe that is where is coming from. However, if you do good things for the sake of your karma, most of it doesn't count.

**KelJu** · 01-16-2009, 04:55 PM

Bah, this shit got so train wrecked its not even funny.

**maniclion** · 01-16-2009, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by busyLivin

Maybe he was joking (maybe not), but most liberals I know believe exactly that.

Come on you actually took what I said as my beliefs, I've never seen a war monger kick a bum, they usually just dart to the other side of the street to avoid them...

My girlfriends grandfather was a devout conservative always voted Republican and thought every war we fought was never enough. Yet this man was very charitable, he gave money to just about every charity or organization that sent him mail or came to his door. He'd drop twentys, fiftys and even hundred dollars bills in every donation bucket he passed. He just had a strange paranoia that the whole world was out to ruin our country much like most republicans I know have. In his personal life he was as much of a pacifist as a buddhist monk but when it came down to defense of our nation he wanted us to drop the bomb on anyone who he felt threatened us....

The man loved George Bush Jr and even got mad at me once for saying he was a terrible leader....

**FishOrCutBait** · 01-16-2009, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by KelJu

Its not much different than the Buddhist idea of karma. They believe we have good karma and bad karma and that doing good things can burn up bad karma. And, maybe that is where is coming from. However, if you do good things for the sake of your karma, most of it doesn't count.

To be quite honest, most of the Christians that I know that tithe do it out of the knowledge that their dollars are going towards helping somebody.

That money (for this church at least) often goes DIRECTLY to a family that needs it, or towards supporting the sister churches in the Ukraine and Venezuela, etc etc.

And its about trusting God enough to step outside of our financial comfort zone, which is a place most people dont want to go.

my $.02

**danzik17** · 01-16-2009, 10:34 PM

The election is over, give it a fucking break. Please come back in 2012.

**maniclion** · 01-17-2009, 12:30 AM

Sorry but I'm a bit of a Political Junkie, I've tried to kick the habit but I can't escape its draw. It's 2030 here I sit with my alien antenna hat supporting my favorite party Friends of Extra Terrestrials at Moon Base Gamma the only place we feel safe because the Muslims and Christians back on Earth have joined forces against the "devils aliens", which they have to be since they aren't mentioned in the Bible. Even though Jesus had already come back again and told them that God created the whole universe and the Bible suffered from grapevine syndrome and lost a lot of the truth about everything. Eventually some Catholic group killed Jesus because they couldn't believe he'd come back and not fulfilled any of the prophecies. The Muslims convinced the Christians that this Jesus was a construct of Alien Technology so they joined forces but agreed to continue their hatred of one another once they saved Gallad's(GOD/ALLAH conjunction) planet from the evil infestation of alien races whom Jesus had summoned to join in a final gathering to unite all of Gods creations and bask in how far each one had evolved.

The Dalai Lama now safe on Moon Base Theta is the full circle come back to the original Buddha and reveals that he is Jesus' big brother also born miraculously yet due to the promiscuity of the Ancient Civilization he was dropped into it was not believed he was immaculately concieved. Now China has a hit on him just because it makes them look bad for persecuting him so long.

So here I am on the moon tranfering these thoughts back through time to my former self for dictation a trick Bill Gates masters in 2017 while being one of the first to buy a ticket to join Moon Colony Beta. Yes I know that I'm only in Gamma Base and it's a little run down but it's affordable and having been a Poet Laureate in 2010 for a piece I submit to a website looking for a poem honoring a certain Americans Great Achievement, I get national treasure status and can live here. Anyhow this technique utilizes just remembering an internet destination you'd used and a time you'd sat at it and jumping in on the wavelength like double dutch. Your former self thinks they are writing some odd made up story and have no clue. There are a few technical enhancements needed but I'll leave that as a surprise. Gotta go we're riding dirtbikes at Tranquility National Park even though I'm in my 50's it's like I'm 25 again thanks to medical break throughs with stem-cells. End Xfr

**maniclion** · 01-19-2009, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by FishOrCutBait

To be quite honest, most of the Christians that I know that tithe do it out of the knowledge that their dollars are going towards helping somebody.

That money (for this church at least) often goes DIRECTLY to a family that needs it, or towards supporting the sister churches in the Ukraine and Venezuela, etc etc.

And its about trusting God enough to step outside of our financial comfort zone, which is a place most people dont want to go.

my $.02

When I moved to smalltown texas pop. 300 my jr/sr yrs of Highschool the 2 most spoiled richest girls were the daughters of the pastors from the 2 churches. One had a new Lexus as her first car and the other had a new Dodge Ram, both families only income was their fathers church work, just how much do those guys make and how much of the donation money goes to helping others afterwards?

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