Thread: Oh shit..... Healthcare

One
Big
Ass
Mistake,
America

Originally Posted by busyLivin

One
Big
Ass
Mistake,
America

Obama administration may rescind 'conscience rule'

Officials say the move seeks to clarify rules for health care workers

By Noam N. Levey | Washington Bureau
February 27, 2009
WASHINGTON — Taking another step into the abortion debate, the Obama administration Friday will move to rescind a controversial rule that allows health-care workers to deny abortion counseling or other family-planning services if doing so would violate their moral beliefs, according to administration officials.

The rollback of the "conscience rule" comes just two months after the Bush administration announced it last year in one of its final policy initiatives.

The new administration's action seems certain to stoke ideological battles between supporters and opponents of abortion rights over the responsibilities of doctors, nurses and other medical workers to their patients.

Seven states, including California, Illinois and Connecticut, as well as two family planning groups, have filed suits challenging the Bush rule, arguing it sacrifices the health of patients to religious beliefs of medical providers.

Is anyone still pretending Obama is a moderate?

Anti-War Activists Disappointed With Obama's Iraq Withdrawal Plan - First 100 Days of Presidency - Politics FOXNews.com

Originally Posted by IainDaniel

Anti-War Activists Disappointed With Obama's Iraq Withdrawal Plan - First 100 Days of Presidency - Politics FOXNews.com

Obama can take credit as he will for "ending the war", but the fact is that George Bush's surge (the plan Obama said over & over would fail) is the reason for the success in Iraq & the war was won before Obama took office. Obama never mentioned the fact that Iraq is the only Arab democracy in the world... he couldn't possibly credit GWB with anything good, but he's quick to blame him for the economic state.

The media will paint him as the one who ended the war, and the sheep will believe it.

The US spends more on healthcare than any nation in the world. (I'll post a chart later today).

Medicare costs have risen dramatically, especially in employer-employee sponsored plans.

And remember GWB signing the Medicare-D bill a couple of years ago (google if you want)

For Medicare-D (prescription coverage for seniors) GWB and the American government needed $17 Trillion dollars invested at Treasury rates at the time.

How much did they have? $0.

Medical care is a train crash. And the train is crashing now.

I hate everything

Originally Posted by busyLivin

Obama can take credit as he will for "ending the war", but the fact is that George Bush's surge (the plan Obama said over & over would fail) is the reason for the success in Iraq & the war was won before Obama took office. Obama never mentioned the fact that Iraq is the only Arab democracy in the world... he couldn't possibly credit GWB with anything good, but he's quick to blame him for the economic state.

The media will paint him as the one who ended the war, and the sheep will believe it.

There is nothing to take credit for in Iraq, it will go back to the way it was before.
You can't change their way of living or thinking.

Originally Posted by min0 lee

There is nothing to take credit for in Iraq, it will go back to the way it was before.
You can't change their way of living or thinking.

You are right, I grew up in Malaysia ( muslim country) so it comes down to understanding shia/sunni powerplay. MCcain and Bush don't understand the Shia/ Sunni problem and this is their main problem. ( And in all fairness Obama may not realize it either) That whole region is all about this balance of power betweein sunnis and shiites, not ideological crap like democracy, dictatorship.

Bush touted that we are bringing democracy to the region, which means the majority shia has the right to control the government in Iraq....


The Shia has a subsect that is gaining political power in the middle east called the twelvers or the 12th-Imam sect. The current president of Iran belongs to this sect as well as the growing power in Iraq.

They think the last Imam has not died but is hiding somewhere, that Allah has made him ageless and will not appear until the last judgement where he will reappear alongside Jesus blah blah blah and all that crap.

What's scary is that this Shia sect believes the apocolypse can be bought about artificially and will usher in the reappearance of the 12th Iman. ( So that means nukes guys) These guys actually believe that our government invaded Iraq in order to delay the 2nd coming of the the last Imam and they also believe that until we are ousted from Iraq the 12th hidden or lost Imam will never reveal himself . So, this is the government we want to put in charge of Iraq to make the region stable? Sadam Hussein was an evil dictator who defiled the country for personal means but he wasn't bought into a belief system that thinks ushering the apocalypse will bring about the twelfth Iman.... scarey, when we ousted him we tipped the balance in the region ( he provided the sunni counterbalance against shia Iran). Now that that region is gaining shia fingerhold, why do you think Iran is emboldened with it's nuclear capability. We got rid of one monster and created another....


Had to get that off my shoulders, I know I derailed the topic,

Originally Posted by bandaidwoman

You are right, I grew up in Malaysia ( muslim country) so it comes down to understanding shia/sunni powerplay. MCcain and Bush don't understand the Shia/ Sunni problem and this is their main problem. ( And in all fairness Obama may not realize it either) That whole region is all about this balance of power betweein sunnis and shiites, not ideological crap like democracy, dictatorship.

Bush touted that we are bringing democracy to the region, which means the majority shia has the right to control the government in Iraq....


The Shia has a subsect that is gaining political power in the middle east called the twelvers or the 12th-Imam sect. The current president of Iran belongs to this sect as well as the growing power in Iraq.

They think the last Imam has not died but is hiding somewhere, that Allah has made him ageless and will not appear until the last judgement where he will reappear alongside Jesus blah blah blah and all that crap.

What's scary is that this Shia sect believes the apocolypse can be bought about artificially and will usher in the reappearance of the 12th Iman. ( So that means nukes guys) These guys actually believe that our government invaded Iraq in order to delay the 2nd coming of the the last Imam and they also believe that until we are ousted from Iraq the 12th hidden or lost Imam will never reveal himself . So, this is the government we want to put in charge of Iraq to make the region stable? Sadam Hussein was an evil dictator who defiled the country for personal means but he wasn't bought into a belief system that thinks ushering the apocalypse will bring about the twelfth Iman.... scarey, when we ousted him we tipped the balance in the region ( he provided the sunni counterbalance against shia Iran). Now that that region is gaining shia fingerhold, why do you think Iran is emboldened with it's nuclear capability. We got rid of one monster and created another....


Had to get that off my shoulders, I know I derailed the topic,

Great post!
I read about the effect ousting Hussein had there.

We made a bit off a mess and it can't be fixed.

Originally Posted by min0 lee

I read about the effect ousting Hussein had there.

We made a bit off a mess and it can't be fixed.

Bush did Iran a favor ousting Saddam and allowing democracy to put the Shiites in control and now that has bound Obama's hands.


Iranian influence in Iraq will surge as the Shiite Iraqi majority takes control and will obviously side religiously and politically with the Shiite Iranians. The Sunni Saudi Arabians have been scared $hitless of Iran since the Iraqi -Iranian war and the Iranian revolution. They will be looking to Obama to rebalance the power struggle but that ain't going to happen. The best he can do is finsih up what we started in afganistan.

It's complex, I never even knew about the different types of Muslims.

Behind the Sunni-Shi'ite Divide

Time Magazine just published an extensive article explain the history of the problems between Sunni and Shi’ite Muslim placed in the context of Iraq. Students have asked me if I think we will “win” the war in Iraq. While trying not to show any bias, I express my opinion (and I do mention that it is my opinion) that winning is much more complicated in Iraq because of the historic problems between these two groups of people. It seems like Bush’s plan never really accounted for this long history of conflict and oppression. Let alone the lack of a democratic tradition.

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Behind the Sunni-Shi'ite Divide

exactly, it's equivalent to the ottoman empire telling the protestant queen elizabeth of england and the catholic king of spain to put aside their religious differences hundreds of years ago in terms of forging their foreign and domestic policies.....In terms of religion, the differences between the catholics and protestants were miniscule compared to the canyon divide between sunnis and shites.

protestants=Jesus
catholics =(Jesus + saints)

christians vs jews , christians = (jewish god + one jesus)

muslims vs christians , muslims = (christian jesus + 1 mohammed)

shiites vs sunnis , shites equal( sunni + 11 holy imans)

thus, what seperates jews from chistians is by an order of one, the sunnis and shiites and order of at least 11. Their differences are much more profound than the seperation of jews and christians and most of the west just don't get that

I'm not religious, but I don't expect most of the world to operate with that type of world outlook. We americans and europeans have forgotten how it forged much of our history and expect others not to do so, probably the only ones who truley have given that up are the communists, and we know were that went...