Bill to Allow guns in National Parks

**ZECH** · 05-20-2009, 07:50 AM

Bill allows loaded guns in national parks - Capitol Hill- msnbc.com
I love it. The demmies got one of their old tricks played on them.

updated 6:23 p.m. ET, Tues., May 19, 2009
WASHINGTON - The Democratic-controlled Congress is moving to restore a Bush administration policy that allowed loaded guns in national parks.

The Senate voted Tuesday to allow guns in national parks and wildlife refuges, and the House could follow suit as soon as Wednesday.

The measure is included in a popular bill imposing new restrictions on credit card companies. Democratic leaders have said they hope to send a final version to the White House for the president's signature by week's end.

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The Senate vote is a stark reversal from what many gun-control advocates expected when a federal judge blocked the Bush policy in March. The decision reinstated restrictions that had been in place since the Reagan administration. The rules severely restrict guns in the national parks, generally requiring them to be locked or stored.

The Obama administration accepted the March 19 ruling, saying that the Interior Department would review the policy over the next several months.

That timetable changed quickly last week after Oklahoma Sen. Tom Coburn inserted an amendment to the credit card bill that would allow concealed, loaded guns in parks and refuges.

Amendment easily passed
To the surprise of many, the amendment easily passed, winning support from 67 senators — including 27 Democrats. Among those who voted "yes" was Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada, who had blocked Coburn's amendment from coming to the Senate floor for more than a year. Seven other Western Democrats voted with Reid to support the Republican senator's amendment, which allows a range of firearms in national parks and wildlife refuges as long as they are allowed by federal, state and local law.

Spokesman Jim Manley said Reid is a strong supporter of the Second Amendment, adding that the guns in parks issue was a major concern for many Nevadans.

"The rules that apply to our federal lands are felt acutely in Nevada, where 87 percent of the state's land is managed by federal agencies," Manley said.

The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, which sued to block the Bush policy, called the Senate vote reckless. The group called on President Barack Obama to demand that the gun provision be stripped from the credit card bill.

"Families should not have to stare down loaded AK-47s on nature hikes," said Brady campaign president Paul Helmke. "The president should not remain silent while Congress inserts reckless gun policies that he strongly opposes into a bill that has nothing whatsoever to do with guns."

Rep. Raul Grijalva, D-Ariz., chairman of a national parks subcommittee, said the measure would make parks more dangerous and urged House Democratic leaders to strip the amendment from the final bill.

Described as 'gotcha amendment'
Grijalva called the measure a "gotcha amendment" aimed at demonstrating the power of the National Rifle Association. Still, he acknowledged, it is likely to pass, given the pro-gun rights majorities in both the House and Senate.

"It's uphill. We know that," Grijalva said at a news conference Tuesday.

Democratic leaders said there was not enough time to send the bill to a House-Senate conference committee — where presumably it could be removed without a vote — and still get it to Obama by Memorial Day as he has requested.

Chris W. Cox, chief lobbyist for the NRA, called Grijalva's comments offbase.

"The National Rifle Association doesn't set the legislative calendar, and certainly doesn't determine which amendments are allowed to be offered or not offered in either the House or the Senate," he said.

Coburn said the gun measure protects every American's Second Amendment rights and also protects the rights of states to pass laws that apply to their entire state, including public lands.

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"Visitors to national parks should have the right to defend themselves in accordance with the laws of their states," Coburn said.

House Democratic Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., told reporters on Tuesday that the House could vote separately on the gun legislation. Doing so would allow each measure to pass, but Democrats who endorse credit card reform could still vote as they wished on the gun measure.

If the two measures are passed separately as expected, they would be rejoined before being sent to the president as a single bill, Hoyer said.

**bio-chem** · 05-20-2009, 08:20 AM

"Families should not have to stare down loaded AK-47s on nature hikes," said Brady campaign president Paul Helmke

what a stupid quote. that is not anywhere near close what is going to be going on. AK-47's on nature hikes. hahahhah

**maniclion** · 05-20-2009, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by bio-chem

"Families should not have to stare down loaded AK-47s on nature hikes," said Brady campaign president Paul Helmke

I guess they would rather stare down the mouth of a starving Grizzly or an angry rattler....

**ZECH** · 05-21-2009, 02:17 PM

It passed yesterday!

**min0 lee** · 05-21-2009, 02:20 PM

Obama signed a bill allowing concealed weapons into national parks - a feat conservatives couldn't pull off with majorities in the legislature and the Presidency.

Go figure.

**bio-chem** · 05-21-2009, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Obama signed a bill allowing concealed weapons into national parks - a feat conservatives couldn't pull off with majorities in the legislature and the Presidency.

Go figure.

your information isn't entirely correct. this was already a policy until obama took office. at which point he changed it. this law just restores what was there before obama took office.

**min0 lee** · 05-21-2009, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by bio-chem

your information isn't entirely correct. this was already a policy until obama took office. at which point he changed it. this law just restores what was there before obama took office.

It is a joke.

Well to be exact it was January that Bush & co. changed the rule letting licensed gun owners to bring in weapons to parks.

That rule was struck down in March by a U.S. District Court judge, who ruled that the Interior Department had not completed a required environmental impact study for the proposal.

**min0 lee** · 05-21-2009, 02:48 PM

Before that it had to be disassembled and kept in a trunk...right?

**Dale Mabry** · 05-21-2009, 03:17 PM

How would this in any way affect the environment?

**min0 lee** · 05-21-2009, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

How would this in any way affect the environment?

**bio-chem** · 05-21-2009, 04:41 PM

WOW. i have been reading some of the comments on CNN. they just blow me away. poaching bear, drunk red necks and other such non-sense talk. Is there a lot of bear poaching with a concealed 9mm hand gun? what are people thinking?

**min0 lee** · 05-21-2009, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by bio-chem

WOW. i have been reading some of the comments on CNN. they just blow me away. poaching bear, drunk red necks and other such non-sense talk. Is there a lot of bear poaching with a concealed 9mm hand gun? what are people thinking?

CNN, the answer to FOX news.

**min0 lee** · 05-21-2009, 05:08 PM

I am pretty sure a drunk redneck would be tempted.

**I Are Baboon** · 05-21-2009, 05:22 PM

Good. Thin out that growing wolf population.

**bio-chem** · 05-21-2009, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by min0 lee

I am pretty sure a drunk redneck would be tempted.

drunk rednecks don't have concealed carry permits. thats the point. guys with concealed carry are some of the most law abiding citizenry. you don't poach bear with a concealable weapon. the picture they are trying to portray doesn't make sense to a logical person that understands this demographic. i guess i can't expect people who have never even held a gun to understand. when your understanding of guns is based upon what you see in hollywood

**min0 lee** · 05-22-2009, 04:46 AM

Originally Posted by bio-chem

drunk rednecks don't have concealed carry permits. thats the point. guys with concealed carry are some of the most law abiding citizenry. you don't poach bear with a concealable weapon. the picture they are trying to portray doesn't make sense to a logical person that understands this demographic. i guess i can't expect people who have never even held a gun to understand. when your understanding of guns is based upon what you see in hollywood

I got that from your quote, not Hollywood.

I for one will never know what it is to carry one. But why is it really important to carry a gun in the woods?

Not that I am against it or for it.

**Dale Mabry** · 05-22-2009, 04:53 AM

Originally Posted by bio-chem

WOW. i have been reading some of the comments on CNN. they just blow me away. poaching bear, drunk red necks and other such non-sense talk. Is there a lot of bear poaching with a concealed 9mm hand gun? what are people thinking?

I highly doubt poaching bear would be an issue. 1, you have the gunshot, 2, you have to drag a bear out of the woods. I used to go bear hunting with my father, you don't typically just track a bear, you have dogs do it for you.

**Burner02** · 05-22-2009, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by min0 lee

CNN, the answer to FOX news.

or.....
Fox news, the answer to CNN

Do you see?

**min0 lee** · 05-22-2009, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Burner02

or.....
Fox news, the answer to CNN

Do you see?

I See.

**bio-chem** · 05-22-2009, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by min0 lee

I got that from your quote, not Hollywood.

I for one will never know what it is to carry one. But why is it really important to carry a gun in the woods?

Not that I am against it or for it.

and i was saying the people on CNN who use drunk rednecks as an example don't understand this demographic. they are only going on what they see portrayed in hollywood.

and as far as carrying protection in the woods. why would someone want that?

**bio-chem** · 05-22-2009, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

I highly doubt poaching bear would be an issue. 1, you have the gunshot, 2, you have to drag a bear out of the woods. I used to go bear hunting with my father, you don't typically just track a bear, you have dogs do it for you.

exactly. carrying a concealed weapon in national parks is not going to have any of the effects the brady campaign claim it will have.

**min0 lee** · 05-22-2009, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by bio-chem

and as far as carrying protection in the woods. why would someone want that?

Is it really that bad in the woods?

I didn't know you would need protection in the woods, the closest thing we have to woods in NYC is Central Park, and ironic as it is NYC is tough on guns yet most of the people who carry guns there are cops.

**bio-chem** · 05-22-2009, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Is it really that bad in the woods?

I didn't know you would need protection in the woods, the closest thing we have to woods in NYC is Central Park, and ironic as it is NYC is tough on guns yet most of the people who carry guns there are cops.

when you get out west, and you can go camping/hiking for days without seeing another person if you know where to go, but there are plenty of bear, and mountain lion around. it is nice to be able to scare them away with something other than a rock

**min0 lee** · 05-22-2009, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by bio-chem

when you get out west, and you can go camping/hiking for days without seeing another person if you know where to go, but there are plenty of bear, and mountain lion around. it is nice to be able to scare them away with something other than a rock

Wow, that's pretty cool.
One day we would like to experience that.

**bio-chem** · 05-22-2009, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Wow, that's pretty cool.
One day we would like to experience that.

it's interesting becasue i've never had the opportunity to go back east and do all of the stuff in new york, philadelphia, and boston, but i get to do any outdoor stuff i could want

**maniclion** · 05-22-2009, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by bio-chem

and i was saying the people on CNN who use drunk rednecks as an example don't understand this demographic. they are only going on what they see portrayed in hollywood.

and as far as carrying protection in the woods. why would someone want that?

Those people dumping on drunk rednecks are the same city slickers who go hiking for a day and end up needing Search and Rescue 3 days later, or they are the same ones who think it's wise to go camping in the deep woods and end up mauled by a bear or angry Whitetail Buck during rut season.

Besides everyone knows drunk rednecks don't shoot animals, they shoot road signs and each other, animals move too much for their drunken eyes to focus and aim at with any accuracy.

**min0 lee** · 05-22-2009, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by maniclion

Those people dumping on drunk rednecks are the same city slickers who go hiking for a day and end up needing Search and Rescue 3 days later, or they are the same ones who think it's wise to go camping in the deep woods and end up mauled by a bear or angry Whitetail Buck during rut season.

Besides everyone knows drunk rednecks don't shoot animals, they shoot road signs and each other, animals move too much for their drunken eyes to focus and aim at with any accuracy.

**bio-chem** · 05-22-2009, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by maniclion

Those people dumping on drunk rednecks are the same city slickers who go hiking for a day and end up needing Search and Rescue 3 days later, or they are the same ones who think it's wise to go camping in the deep woods and end up mauled by a bear or angry Whitetail Buck during rut season.

Besides everyone knows drunk rednecks don't shoot animals, they shoot road signs and each other, animals move too much for their drunken eyes to focus and aim at with any accuracy.

**Will Brink** · 05-22-2009, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by dg806

[url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30832809/]Bill allows loaded guns in national parks - .

Vs unloaded?

**Will Brink** · 05-22-2009, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by bio-chem

"Families should not have to stare down loaded AK-47s on nature hikes," said Brady campaign president Paul Helmke

That's because the people at the Brady Bunch are pretty stupid. Why use the facts when you can just make sh%$ up as he did?

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