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PCT or Cruise? What should I do?

malfeasance

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IML Gear Cream!
I am halfway through a 10 week cycle.

46
6 foot
219 (was only 204 when I started this time)

Currently on my fourth cycle.

I was completely off everything for 18 months before this fourth cycle, and now, halfway through my cycle, I am 219 pounds.

Wk 1-10 600 test e
Wk 2-9 300 NPP
Wk 3-6 dbol 50 mg daily

12.5 aromasin (bumped it to 25 mg for a while because of the dbol, but now back to 12.5 mg).

No HCG being used, although I have some.

In 6 weeks I have gone from 204 to 215. I am not sure where I will end up at 10 weeks, but my initial plan was to PCT, take 6 weeks off and then go into a cutting cycle. I have T3 and clen. Not sure yet what gear I will use yet, but I was considering test and primo. Lately, however, loving the way I feel on cycle after such a long break, I find myself daydreaming about just continuing the testosterone injections beyond the end of the cycle . . . maybe even at 300 mg a week . . .

Anyway, should I PCT and take a break for 6 weeks or should I just inject 150 mg per week for six weeks and then launch into the cut cycle?




(A) PCT, dude, at 46 you are way too young!

or

(B) Cruise, you old fart, you are going to be on TRT soon, anyway!




And if I cruise for 6 weeks before launching back into a cycle, should it be at 150 mg or some higher number? I have to say I was rather shocked to read swiper's thread, and thought maybe I should be cruising at higher doses if I want to keep some size.



:hmmm:
 
I am halfway through a 10 week cycle.

46
6 foot
219 (was only 204 when I started this time)

Currently on my fourth cycle.

I was completely off everything for 18 months before this fourth cycle, and now, halfway through my cycle, I am 219 pounds.

Wk 1-10 600 test e
Wk 2-9 300 NPP
Wk 3-6 dbol 50 mg daily

12.5 aromasin (bumped it to 25 mg for a while because of the dbol, but now back to 12.5 mg).

No HCG being used, although I have some.

In 6 weeks I have gone from 204 to 215. I am not sure where I will end up at 10 weeks, but my initial plan was to PCT, take 6 weeks off and then go into a cutting cycle. I have T3 and clen. Not sure yet what gear I will use yet, but I was considering test and primo. Lately, however, loving the way I feel on cycle after such a long break, I find myself daydreaming about just continuing the testosterone injections beyond the end of the cycle . . . maybe even at 300 mg a week . . .

Anyway, should I PCT and take a break for 6 weeks or should I just inject 150 mg per week for six weeks and then launch into the cut cycle?




(A) PCT, dude, at 46 you are way too young!

or

(B) Cruise, you old fart, you are going to be on TRT soon, anyway!




And if I cruise for 6 weeks before launching back into a cycle, should it be at 150 mg or some higher number? I have to say I was rather shocked to read swiper's thread, and thought maybe I should be cruising at higher doses if I want to keep some size.



:hmmm:
Very personal choice.
I am far too young for TRT, but I chose to blast and cruise, however I will be taking 10-12 weeks off every year.
At 46, provided I didn't want any more kids I would not hesitate and blast and cruise all year round.

200-300mg/wk is pretty standard dose for cruise, bigger boys like to cruise at around 500mg... and as you mentioned there are the likes of Swiper who cruises at 2g/wk
 
@ age 46, Blast & cruise; besides, you could get GH, & Test prescribed anyway for cruising; then you could blast with short esters so Doc doesn't wonder why you have a ridiculous level of hormones thickening your blood.
 
Most people I know start at least aromasin at 250. Sone also just use proviron
 
I Am 43 and cruise at around 250-300.. and use ADEX at .5 mgs every third day. I should add that everyone will react different on an AI....my blood work tells me that it keeps my E2 at about 25..

This Message Was Sent By ME!!!!!
 
Same opinion here, blast and cruise baby 250-300 mg I don't see the need on any more than that at this point of your experimental phase, swiper cruises at that amount because that's the sweet spot for him and not everybody is the same, eat big train bigger and you shouldn't lose size maintaining is the easy part. I personally don't mess with T-3 there is a lot you can accomplish with a good consistent diet, and Primo well it's the nectar of the God's.
 
ehh you have only done a ten week cycle if your going to cruise any way I vote for option "C" extend your cycle. If you want to cut just change your diet and start a cut for another ten weeks.

Drop the NPP add the tren or mast and cut away.

Then cruise.:cool:
 
IML Gear Cream!
and Primo well it's the nectar of the God's.
This assumes I am not just paying more for Deca or Testosterone in a bottle labeled primo!

Have you run it, and, if so, at what dose, and what did it do for you (subjective and objective observations)?


ehh you have only done a ten week cycle if your going to cruise any way I vote for option "C" extend your cycle. If you want to cut just change your diet and start a cut for another ten weeks.

Drop the NPP add the tren or mast and cut away.

Then cruise.:cool:

This is WAY more tempting than it should be.
 
ehh you have only done a ten week cycle if your going to cruise any way I vote for option "C" extend your cycle. If you want to cut just change your diet and start a cut for another ten weeks.

Drop the NPP add the tren or mast and cut away.

Then cruise.:cool:

What about giving the receptors a break to permit them to downregulate and all that sort of stuff?
 
What about giving the receptors a break to permit them to downregulate and all that sort of stuff?

Well a ten week cycle is about the min cycle length. But I personally don't worry about that.
 
If your gonna keep cycling at 46 and older I would personally cruise. Natural test levels decrease with age and running cycles would make it even more pronounced. Blood work is the only way to be sure, but I would venture to guess your gonna have a hard time recouperating at your age. 200 - 300 mgs of test would be fine.
 
Cruise your already old lol
 
I prefer to pin 2x a week..imo it keeps my levels more stable.

This Message Was Sent By ME!!!!!
 
I like to pin a bit more frequent than once a week, I usually stick to e4d or e5d.
 
You can cruise as low as 200mg per week, which is on the higher end of a TRT dose. It really depends on your goals. Are you looking to be the next Mr O, or simply look more jacked than the average gym rat? I'm on TRT at 200 per week 100 2x's per week, SubQ, and still make pretty good gains when my diet and training are in check. I also come off 1 per year to give my body a break from everything. Also...do you ever donate blood? If not, start. This will keep your RBC in the normal range, plus the other health benefits, it doesn't make sense not to.
 
IML Gear Cream!
Are you looking to be the next Mr O, or simply look more jacked than the average gym rat?
I am 46, so I think it is a little too late to contemplate taking a shot at the Mr.O . . . LOL! I appreciate your input, however. You say you come off once per year. For how long?
 
Very personal choice.
I am far too young for TRT, but I chose to blast and cruise, however I will be taking 10-12 weeks off every year.
At 46, provided I didn't want any more kids I would not hesitate and blast and cruise all year round.

200-300mg/wk is pretty standard dose for cruise, bigger boys like to cruise at around 500mg... and as you mentioned there are the likes of Swiper who cruises at 2g/wk


Just an update, several weeks into the cruise. I chose 300 mg a week just because I am using a 300mg/ml and it made it convenient to do .5 cc twice a week, along with 12.5 mg aromasin daily.

It feels great! Wonderful! Twice a day with the wife! Muscles remain. Strong as an ox. Cardio is up.

Every prior cycle I deflate like a balloon coming off.

Cruising is cool.
 
I am enjoying cruising myself, however one more blast and I will be coming off... dark and difficult times lie ahead.
 
PCT is more important for younger guys who still want kids and whose T levels are still optimal. At 46, I doubt you want more kids, care about testicle size, or have optimal T levels. Personally, I would say on TRT between cycles, especially if your T levels are still in the low/low-normal range after PCT.
 
PCT is more important for younger guys who still want kids and whose T levels are still optimal. At 46, I doubt you want more kids, care about testicle size, or have optimal T levels. Personally, I would say on TRT between cycles, especially if your T levels are still in the low/low-normal range after PCT.

Mike,

In a previous post, you spoke about testicular damages when going on TRT, because the testicles are inactive for a prolonged period of time. These permanent damages can indeed lead to permanent infertility.

Is the use of HCG (LH mimicker), or HMG (LH and FSH) during steroids use can prevent the tests from being damaged by making them active ?

By the way, here is two interesting studies :

http://www.ergo-log.com/vitaminecycle.html
http://www.ergo-log.com/vitamin-c-and-e-protect-testes-during-steroids-cycle.html

Can using strong antioxidants and HMG/HCG be an effective method to protect the testicles from permanent damages or do they get damaged by another pathway coming from steroids use ?

Regards.
 
Last edited:
@ Mike Arnold, here is another HCG / fertility related question.

What is your opinion on long term HCG / Clomid use? By long term I mean 10 month blast and cruise.
I brought up Clomid, as I've heard that 25mg of Clomid each day while on cycle prevents testicular atrophy very much like HCG.
 
Mike,

In a previous post, you spoke about testicular damages when going on TRT, because the testicles are inactive for a prolonged period of time. These permanent damages can indeed lead to permanent infertility.
A AAS use is unlikely to lead to permanent infertility. Long-term use may prevent a full recovery of sperm count, but even after long-term suppression, sperm count & motility can usually be recovered sufficiently to allow for pregnancy. Drugs like HCG, HMG, and Clomid are potent drugs for restoring fertility.

Is the use of HCG (LH mimicker), or HMG (LH and FSH) during steroids use can prevent the tests from being damaged by making them active ?
HCG will primarily maintain testosterone production, while HMG will maintain both sperm & testosterone production. However, HMG is much more expensive to use, so if test production is the goal, use HCG. If fertility is the goal, HMG is the far better drug, as it directly initiates sperm production.

Keep in mind that these drugs do not actually help you "recover" in the traditional sense of the word, as you will technically still be supressed when using them. The word recover refers to the body's ability to sustain normal test & sperm production on its own, but this is impossible with HCG & FSH. Why? In order to experience a recovery, the pituitary must start producing LH and FSH. This can't happen when using these drugs. In fact, they actually suppress LH & FSH production. Therefore, as soon as you stop using these drugs, testosterone and/or sperm production goes right back down to nothing.

The SERM's and AI's are what cause the pituitary to produce LH and FSH. The reason AAS users often use HCG during the first part of PCT...or during the cycle itself (preferable)...is because it will get the testicle back into/maintain a fully functioning state. This way, when you start using SERMs and/or AI's test & sperm production can revert back to normal more quickly. Basically, when used as part of a recovery plan, HCG & HMG only cause testicular recovery. They do not help the pituitary recover.


By the way, here is two interesting studies :

http://www.ergo-log.com/vitaminecycle.html
http://www.ergo-log.com/vitamin-c-and-e-protect-testes-during-steroids-cycle.html

Can using strong antioxidants and HMG/HCG be an effective method to protect the testicles from permanent damages or do they get damaged by another pathway coming from steroids use ?
Yes, they will help protect the testes from damage, but not the pituitary...and if the pituitary isn't able to produce LH & FSH, the testes are worthless anyway (unless you permanently stayed on HCG/HMG). Therefore, if you want a real recovery (which means you can produce test & sperm on your own), you should focus on both testicular & pituitary recovery.

.......
 

Thank you Mike.

Yes, HCG & HMG are both suppresive drugs.

So, basically, if a BBer decides to stay on AAS permanently (TRT for example) and uses HMG non-stop from the very beginning of his AAS use, he can prevent himself from having a testicular shrinkage and from becoming sterile, but he can't do anything to protect his pituitary ?

So if this BBer wants to coming off, and thus trying to recover, it can take a very long time before his pituitary fully recovers, and starts to produce LH & FSH on its own ?

I now better understand the arguments in favor of cycling...

So using HMG from the beginning of its permanent AAS use is a must for any BBer who wants to stay on AAS non-stop and having kids in the future ?
 
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