Thread: Changing Your Body With PSL Products.

good shit bro!!

Hmm, not sure that looks like a beginner cycle. Im not sure many people would advise a first time user to use four different compunds for the first go and especialy without ancilleries? When taking tren there are other sides to look out for other than gyno. Like prolactin. And you did not mention that different ancileries would be needed for that other than nolva. How is a beginner supposed to know this stuff or what compound he is having an adverse affect from. Your cycle looks good but I dont now how beginner it is.

Originally Posted by skinnyguy180

Hmm, not sure that looks like a beginner cycle. Im not sure many people would advise a first time user to use four different compunds for the first go and especialy without ancilleries? When taking tren there are other sides to look out for other than gyno. Like prolactin. And you did not mention that different ancileries would be needed for that other than nolva. How is a beginner supposed to know this stuff or what compound he is having an adverse affect from. Your cycle looks good but I dont now how beginner it is.

Perhaps I should've clarified what I meant by "beginner". For a "1st time" user I would suggest a more simple set-up, but my opinions have changed over the years dramatically when it comes to what is "acceptable" for those who are still relatively new to AAS. I no longer believe any of the 100% BULLSHIT that a 1st time user must use only testosterone. That is a crock of shit...and I could give many valid reasons why. I worte an article on that topic about a year ago and many agree.

The compounds a individual decides to use depends more on their education level than their experience level. As you can see even when looking at the above cycle, the doses are not exorbitant. Not including the oral, the total dose is under 1 gram per week.

As far as your comment that more ancillaries are required, in 99% of cases that is also pure bullshit. You have been led to believe that Tren-induced elevations in prolactin are some horrible thing which must be dealt with, but did you know that tren rarely leads to elevations in prolactin levels? That's right...much of what you have read online about tren being able to cause these severe levation in prolactin is bullshit! On top of that, elevated prolactin is NOT the cause of Ten's "possible" negative effects on sexual function. Many people believe both of these false truths, yet both are total hogshit! Prolactin has nothing to do with tren's ability to cause sexual dysfunction.

Many people have had their prolactin levels tested when using tren, often when using very high dosages...and theie prolactin levels were completely NORMAL! That's right...normal. This is also why so many people who use anti-prolactin drugs, like Cabergoline and Pramipexole, don't experience ANY relief from tren-indiced sexual dysfunction. This makes total sense...because prolactin is not the cause! If prolactin was the reason, these drugs would always clear up this issue right away, but most of the time...they don't. There have also been numerous people who have used high dosages of caber/prami right at the very beginning of their there cycles (dosages which, according to clinical reserach, would completely wipe out prolactin), yet they still experienced this side effect just as bad as ever. When bloodwork was done, their prolactin levels were non-existent...yet their sexual dysfunction remained.

You want to know the truth? All this recent scare over the last few years about tren and prolactin...it's complete bullshit! Tren will never elevate prolactin high enough to warrant presription drugs like carber or prami...and much of the time it won't elevate prolactin at all. At any rate, it is absolutely ridiculous to think that a drug like carber or prami is a "necessity" whe using tren. That is just another way for guys to waste their hard earned money! Complete waste of time...utter bullshit. As far as tren causing gyno...this is extremely rare. Iy almost never happens. At best, it could possibly be a MINOR contributer, but will never cause it alone...except in the rarest of cases...maybe. I have NEVER seen it happen in 20+ years...ever.

As far as estrogen is concered, the 300 mg of Masteron included in the cycle is MORE than sufficient to ward-off any estrogenic side effects that 450 mg of test might cause (in most cases). Anadrol does not aromatze either, but could possibly cause gyno through other mechanims. This is nothing Nolva can't fix. So, like I said originally, there is NO need to spend ANY money on other ancillaries (except some Nolvadex, like I mention in the article)...and anyone who suggests that they do is so asking them to throw away their hard-earned money in the garbage can. Now, I realize you mean well and are going by common internet knowledge, but that knowledge is wrong...and more people are now starting to realize it. The Tren-prolactin scare is over. None of those anti-prolacting drugs are needed when using tren.

Now, if Masteron was not included in the cycle, I would have recommend Aromasin, as I believe it is by fat the best AI for several reasons, but since Mast is in the cycle, the relatively low dose of test does not require it.

Going back one more time to the idea of "what is appropriate for those who have just entered the world of AAS", I believe there are many factors to take into consideration when determining what is and isn't "OK". Regardless, I am adamantly, 100% AGAINST the common notion that test should always be one's 1st cycle. In fact, in some cases it is an absolutely TERERIBLE idea. What the best steroid is for anyone, regardless of experience level, depends on many factors, including what is most important to the individual. Would you give a guy who makes his living off of fitness modeling and who is potentially prone to hair loss, testosterone for his 1st cycle? Only if you're a complete dolt! I am NOT calling you a dolt, but you get my point. Fitness models depend on nice hair, clear skin, and good overall skin tone. Giving a drug which is well known to cause acne, oily skin, and hair loss, such as testosterone, to someone like that would be the worst possible call. There are many more reason why testosterone is NOT a good drug for someone. There are many people out there who have goals other than just "packing on the mass". These people's goals are not any less important than your's or mine, regardless of what they are. What matters is what is important too them. As long as they are not putting their lives in danger, they should be doing what makes the most sense for them..what is in accordance with their goals. I am sick and tired of hearing BB'rs put down people who don't want to use test for their 1st cycle because they have other goals and priorities. I have heard many BB'rs say STUPID shit like..."If you're not ready to use testosterone, you're not ready for steroids". Or..."If you care more about your hair or skin than getting big, steroids are not for you". Those are the most assinine, retarded-ass things I have ever heard!

You seem like a cool guy and all, but if you're going to call me out, I am going to stick it to you, especially when you're wrong. See, part of the problem is that it is impossible, in one short article, to address every possible need or cover all relevant information. In truth, if someone is going to make all their decisions based on reading a single article and not do any other research, that is one them...NOT me. How could I possibly cover everything that is important or relevant in one article? There is a lot to learn about steroids in general before using stereoids...and we should continue learning as we go along. It is not fair or reasonable to put that resposibility on me because I wrote a single article. Additionally, there is no single cycle that is ideal for everyone and each person has varying levels of knowledge regarding steroid apllication and potential side effects. It is impossible for me to meet the needs of all.

So...in this article, I decided to put together a cycle which is well known to give tremendous results in almost every area, in order to meet a broad range of individual goals, such as increased size, strength, fat loss, and muscle quality, but at the same time, it isn't going to present any serious risk to the user. I assume that anyone who cosiders running this cycle will do the necessary research...and if they don't, that is not my fault. No matter what cycle I suggest, it is always up to each idividual to educate themselves properly prior to use. If someone does run this cycle without educating themselves, what is the worst case scenario? They will get much bigger, stronger, maybe lose fat (depending in caloric intake relative to metabolic need) and look much better...and they may lose some hair (but if they are prone to it, hair loss is going to occur even if all they use is testosterone). All other side effects will be transient. In the end, they will be no worse for the wear.

Perhaps I should've clarified what I meant by "beginner". For a "1st time" user I would suggest a more simple set-up, but my opinions have changed over the years dramatically when it comes to what is "acceptable" for those who are still relatively new to AAS. I no longer believe any of the 100% BULLSHIT that a 1st time user must use only testosterone. That is a crock of shit...and I could give many valid reasons why. I worte an article on that topic about a year ago and many agree.

1.The compounds a individual decides to use depends more on their education level than their experience level. As you can see even when looking at the above cycle, the doses are not exorbitant. Not including the oral, the total dose is under 1 gram per week.

I never said they were high doses

As far as your comment that more ancillaries are required, in 99% of cases that is also pure bullshit. You have been led to believe that Tren-induced elevations in prolactin are some horrible thing which must be dealt with, but did you know that tren rarely leads to elevations in prolactin levels? That's right...much of what you have read online about tren being able to cause these severe levation in prolactin is bullshit! On top of that, elevated prolactin is NOT the cause of Ten's "possible" negative effects on sexual function. Many people believe both of these false truths, yet both are total hogshit! Prolactin has nothing to do with tren's ability to cause sexual dysfunction.

Maybe but the fact still stands that a beginner would not know what to do should the prolactin sides arise(lactation). I never said anything about tren messing with your sexual function did I. though a beginner would not know what to do about that either.

Many people have had their prolactin levels tested when using tren, often when using very high dosages...and theie prolactin levels were completely NORMAL! That's right...normal. This is also why so many people who use anti-prolactin drugs, like Cabergoline and Pramipexole, don't experience ANY relief from tren-indiced sexual dysfunction. This makes total sense...because prolactin is not the cause! If prolactin was the reason, these drugs would always clear up this issue right away, but most of the time...they don't. There have also been numerous people who have used high dosages of caber/prami right at the very beginning of their there cycles (dosages which, according to clinical reserach, would completely wipe out prolactin), yet they still experienced this side effect just as bad as ever. When bloodwork was done, their prolactin levels were non-existent...yet their sexual dysfunction remained.

LOL I never stated anything about prolactin causing sexual disfunction. but good info.

You want to know the truth? All this recent scare over the last few years about tren and prolactin...it's complete bullshit! Tren will never elevate prolactin high enough to warrant presription drugs like carber or prami...and much of the time it won't elevate prolactin at all. At any rate, it is absolutely ridiculous to think that a drug like carber or prami is a "necessity" whe using tren. That is just another way for guys to waste their hard earned money! Complete waste of time...utter bullshit. As far as tren causing gyno...this is extremely rare. Iy almost never happens. At best, it could possibly be a MINOR contributer, but will never cause it alone...except in the rarest of cases...maybe. I have NEVER seen it happen in 20+ years...ever.

I guess the people that get these sides and use thoes drugs to clear them up are all liars. HAHAHa! Never said they were a necessity but I would want to leave it up the the person injecting as to whether or not they want to have it on hand. Telling them flat out the dont need it is irresponsible. You dont know how there body will react.

As far as estrogen is concered, the 300 mg of Masteron included in the cycle is MORE than sufficient to ward-off any estrogenic side effects that 450 mg of test might cause (in most cases). Anadrol does not aromatze either, but could possibly cause gyno through other mechanims. This is nothing Nolva can't fix. So, like I said originally, there is NO need to spend ANY money on other ancillaries (except some Nolvadex, like I mention in the article)...and anyone who suggests that they do is so asking them to throw away their hard-earned money in the garbage can. Now, I realize you mean well and are going by common internet knowledge, but that knowledge is wrong...and more people are now starting to realize it. The Tren-prolactin scare is over. None of those anti-prolacting drugs are needed when using tren.

Just cause you dont have GYNO does not mean that your ESTRO levels arent higher than they should be. And "I" personally dont like to retain a shit ton of water cause my estro levels are out of control. But I would leave that up to the user instead of just telling them they dont need it.

Now, if Masteron was not included in the cycle, I would have recommend Aromasin, as I believe it is by fat the best AI for several reasons, but since Mast is in the cycle, the relatively low dose of test does not require it.

Going back one more time to the idea of "what is appropriate for those who have just entered the world of AAS", I believe there are many factors to take into consideration when determining what is and isn't "OK". Regardless, I am adamantly, 100% AGAINST the common notion that test should always be one's 1st cycle. In fact, in some cases it is an absolutely TERERIBLE idea. What the best steroid is for anyone, regardless of experience level, depends on many factors, including what is most important to the individual. Would you give a guy who makes his living off of fitness modeling and who is potentially prone to hair loss, testosterone for his 1st cycle? Only if you're a complete dolt! I am NOT calling you a dolt, but you get my point. Fitness models depend on nice hair, clear skin, and good overall skin tone. Giving a drug which is well known to cause acne, oily skin, and hair loss, such as testosterone, to someone like that would be the worst possible call. There are many more reason why testosterone is NOT a good drug for someone. There are many people out there who have goals other than just "packing on the mass". These people's goals are not any less important than your's or mine, regardless of what they are. What matters is what is important too them. As long as they are not putting their lives in danger, they should be doing what makes the most sense for them..what is in accordance with their goals. I am sick and tired of hearing BB'rs put down people who don't want to use test for their 1st cycle because they have other goals and priorities. I have heard many BB'rs say STUPID shit like..."If you're not ready to use testosterone, you're not ready for steroids". Or..."If you care more about your hair or skin than getting big, steroids are not for you". Those are the most assinine, retarded-ass things I have ever heard!

I am not 100% against that. And I made no cycle reconmendations.

You seem like a cool guy and all, but if you're going to call me out, I am going to stick it to you, especially when you're wrong. See, part of the problem is that it is impossible, in one short article, to address every possible need or cover all relevant information. In truth, if someone is going to make all their decisions based on reading a single article and not do any other research, that is one them...NOT me. How could I possibly cover everything that is important or relevant in one article? There is a lot to learn about steroids in general before using stereoids...and we should continue learning as we go along. It is not fair or reasonable to put that resposibility on me because I wrote a single article. Additionally, there is no single cycle that is ideal for everyone and each person has varying levels of knowledge regarding steroid apllication and potential side effects. It is impossible for me to meet the needs of all.

HAHAHA is that a joke what did I say that was wrong. Call me out how? Your defending points I did not make. And you far from stuck it to me. You just made your self seem like a know it all that cant have any one have a different opinion than you.

So...in this article, I decided to put together a cycle which is well known to give tremendous results in almost every area, in order to meet a broad range of individual goals, such as increased size, strength, fat loss, and muscle quality, but at the same time, it isn't going to present any serious risk to the user. I assume that anyone who cosiders running this cycle will do the necessary research...and if they don't, that is not my fault. No matter what cycle I suggest, it is always up to each idividual to educate themselves properly prior to use. If someone does run this cycle without educating themselves, what is the worst case scenario? They will get much bigger, stronger, maybe lose fat (depending in caloric intake relative to metabolic need) and look much better...and they may lose some hair (but if they are prone to it, hair loss is going to occur even if all they use is testosterone). All other side effects will be transient. In the end, they will be no worse for the wear.

You seem to be very proud of your article and that is great but keep an open mind we are learning more and more about this stuff daily and you are not the end all be all of steroids bud. A all I said above is that "I dont think this is a beginner cycle"and a couple reasons why GICH! Good luck with your articles.

Liked you article Mike. Good stuff.

Originally Posted by skinnyguy180

Perhaps I should've clarified what I meant by "beginner". For a "1st time" user I would suggest a more simple set-up, but my opinions have changed over the years dramatically when it comes to what is "acceptable" for those who are still relatively new to AAS. I no longer believe any of the 100% BULLSHIT that a 1st time user must use only testosterone. That is a crock of shit...and I could give many valid reasons why. I worte an article on that topic about a year ago and many agree.

1.The compounds a individual decides to use depends more on their education level than their experience level. As you can see even when looking at the above cycle, the doses are not exorbitant. Not including the oral, the total dose is under 1 gram per week.

I never said they were high doses
Never said you did.

As far as your comment that more ancillaries are required, in 99% of cases that is also pure bullshit. You have been led to believe that Tren-induced elevations in prolactin are some horrible thing which must be dealt with, but did you know that tren rarely leads to elevations in prolactin levels? That's right...much of what you have read online about tren being able to cause these severe levation in prolactin is bullshit! On top of that, elevated prolactin is NOT the cause of Ten's "possible" negative effects on sexual function. Many people believe both of these false truths, yet both are total hogshit! Prolactin has nothing to do with tren's ability to cause sexual dysfunction.

Maybe but the fact still stands that a beginner would not know what to do should the prolactin sides arise(lactation). I never said anything about tren messing with your sexual function did I. though a beginner would not know what to do about that either.
Lactation my ass! You know how RARE this side effect is on Tren users? EXTREMELY. Ina ddition, it ALWAYS occurs when used with other aromatizing steroids. On top of that, the dose would NEED to be much higher than the mere 150 me per week I suggested. You know how many guys out the 1,000's I have spoken with who've used tren that have experienced that side effect, even when using monster doses of tren and bunch of other aromatizable drugs along with it? ONE! And...I could not confirm that the Tren was even the cause...I could only speculate, as he was using a boat-load of various drugsand had other medical problems. It is not uncommon for some men to develop prolactin issues which have NOTHING to do with AAS. In fact, the incidence of men experiencing elevated prolactin levels from other causes is much higher than the chances of a steroid user "lactating" from tren...LOL. On top of that, even though he used Tren many times after that, it never happend again. Now, how is that possible? If it was Tren causing this, why wouldn't it cause it at other times when using even higher dosage of tren with no ancillaries? The point is I have known ONE guy who actually experienced this...and there is no proof the steroid were even the cause.

The bottom line is that your main point was that the person running this cycle would REQUIRE ancillaries, such as anti-prolacting drugs...and you are completely wrong...period. Not only is the side effect EXTEMELY rare (and I have spoken to probably at least 1,000 tren users, personally, over the last 22 years), but when used at the doses I recommended, it will NEVER occur, especially when the synerfistic effect of estrogen has been neutralized through the use of masteron. So...again, NO...the user of this cycle will NOT REQUIRE an anti-prolactin drugs in order to run this cycle. Even though I have refuted your false claim with fact, let's take this a step further and say the cycle contained very high doses of Tren along with high doses or testosterone. In the very RARE event that this person happened to experience this side effect, the addition of masteron (and Nolvadex if needed) would almost certainly put an end to it, as estrogen would be prevented from interacting at the receptor sites within the nipple. When tren is used alone, the necessary estrgenic synergy required to initiate this problem would be non-existent. Yes, prolacting alone CAN cause lactation in men, but ONLY if one's level are exceedingly high...higher than what tren can accomplish by itself. In the end, no matter how you cut it...not only does this cycle NOT require the ancillaties you said it does, but even if the cycle was dosed much higher, the chances of that side effect occuring are extremely unlikely. under such circumstances, i fail to see WHY such ancillaries are "NEEDED".

Let's move onto your last comment in the above sentence. You mention that a beginner would not know what to do about tren-induced sexual dysfunction if it were to occur. I addressed this in my last post. As I said earlier, it is OUTSIDE the scope of this single article to go over every possible side effect from each steroid and how to deal with them all. If you want to know about that, I have a very good article posted up which speaks directly about the subject of steroid induced sexual dysfunction...and it covers every possible way steroids can cause this and how to rectify the issue. There are literally dozens of side effects (both internal and external) which take place with even a single steroid. It is unrealistic to expect me to list them all...and you know that. At this point, you are simply being overly critical without good cause.

Many people have had their prolactin levels tested when using tren, often when using very high dosages...and theie prolactin levels were completely NORMAL! That's right...normal. This is also why so many people who use anti-prolactin drugs, like Cabergoline and Pramipexole, don't experience ANY relief from tren-indiced sexual dysfunction. This makes total sense...because prolactin was not the cause! If prolactin was the reason, these drugs would always clear up this issue right away, but many times...they don't. There have also been numerous people who have used high dosages of caber/prami right at the very beginning of their there cycles (dosages which, according to clinical reserach, would completely wipe out prolactin), yet they still experienced this side effect just as bad as ever. When bloodwork was done, their prolactin levels were non-existent...yet their sexual dysfunction remained.

LOL I never stated anything about prolactin causing sexual disfunction. but good info.

You want to know the truth? All this recent scare over the last few years about tren and prolactin...it's complete bullshit! Tren will never elevate prolactin high enough to warrant presription drugs like carber or prami...and much of the time it won't elevate prolactin at all. At any rate, it is absolutely ridiculous to think that a drug like carber or prami is a "necessity" whe using tren. That is just another way for guys to waste their hard earned money! Complete waste of time...utter bullshit. As far as tren causing gyno...this is extremely rare. Iy almost never happens. At best, it could possibly be a MINOR contributer, but will never cause it alone...except in the rarest of cases...maybe. I have NEVER seen it happen in 20+ years...ever.

I guess the people that get these sides and use thoes drugs to clear them up are all liars.
What side effects? How many people do you know who have experienced lactation? I am calling bullshit if you name more than 1-2 people. I have been all over these boards...spoken with 1000's who have used the drug...and not one of them on these boards (or in my coaching practice), that I have spoken with, has ever experienced it. "Some" online people have claimed to experience it (often without even being able to confirm tren was the cause), but even those people are VERY rare. Because this side effect is so rare, an automatic recommendation to use anti-prolactin drugs right off the bat, before somone even knows how they respond, is uncalled for.

Now, it is very common for a user to experience sexual dysfunction with tren...just like nandrolone, but again...the guy should first use tren without any anti-prolactin drugs, in order to find out whether he even experiences this side effect. If he does experience sexual dysfunction, there are a few options he could try, but none of them are gauranteed to work. Some people experience this side effect even when using 100 mg per week and taking every precaution available. Other people can clear it up through simple means, such as lowering the tren dose and/or increasing their T dose...and some get relief from anti-prolactin drugs. For others, all they can do is either deal with the side effect...or stop using tren. Still, as far as lactation is concerend, it is a non-issue, as NO ONE will ever lactate from using 150 mg per week of Tren in combination with 300 mg of masteron...ever.

Aside from the side effects I just mentioned, what other side effects are the people you mentioned trying to deal with by using anti-p's? As I see it, there are NO other side effects which would justify the automatic use of anti-p's when using steroids. So, we already know lactation is a non-issue with this cycle. Also, I personally believe it is best to let someone first discover if tren does cause them to experience sexual dysfunction, before jumping the gun and automatically tossing anti-p's into the picture. An anti-p is something you use ONLY if you need it...you shouldn't just throw it in there "just in case". Besdies, there is no gaurantee it would eliminate sexual dysfunction even if someone did experience that side effect. Regardless, the first time someone uses tren, it is best to skip the anti-p's, so they can discover how tren affects them personally. Then, based on their response, they can make an educated decision from there.

HAHAHa! Never said they were a necessity but I would want to leave it up the the person injecting as to whether or not they want to have it on hand. Telling them flat out the dont need it is irresponsible. You dont know how there body will react.
I think I cleared this up pretty well already. Irresponsible...LOL. It's not irresponsible to leave an ancillary out of a cycle when it will never be needed...because as I've now mentioned multiple times, 150 mg of tren in combination with 300 mg mast will NEVER cause somone to lactate. So, before you start calling me irrsponsible, educate yourself first.

As far as estrogen is concered, the 300 mg of Masteron included in the cycle is MORE than sufficient to ward-off any estrogenic side effects that 450 mg of test might cause (in most cases). Anadrol does not aromatze either, but could possibly cause gyno through other mechanims. This is nothing Nolva can't fix. So, like I said originally, there is NO need to spend ANY money on other ancillaries (except some Nolvadex, like I mention in the article)...and anyone who suggests that they do is so asking them to throw away their hard-earned money in the garbage can. Now, I realize you mean well and are going by common internet knowledge, but that knowledge is wrong...and more people are now starting to realize it. The Tren-prolactin scare is over. None of those anti-prolacting drugs are needed when using tren.

Just cause you dont have GYNO does not mean that your ESTRO levels arent higher than they should be. And "I" personally dont like to retain a shit ton of water cause my estro levels are out of control. But I would leave that up to the user instead of just telling them they dont need it.
Buddy...I addressed this in my last post. When using 300 mg of mast with 450 mg of Test, estrogen levels will not get out of control. Mast was originally made in the early 60's specifically for its anti-estrogenic effects in breast tissue, being prescribed 1,000's of times in the treatment of women's breast cancer. It was the most effective treatment method at the time and was considered one of the best treatments for decades.

Aside from that, I also addressed the issue of water retention in the article and in my orevious posts. Obviously, when estrogen levels are proplery regulated, you won't experience any water retention when using drugs which aren't known to cause water retention!!!!! If I put 1000 people on 450 mg Test, 300 mg Mast, and 150 mg tren...not only will they not hold sub-q water, but they will get harder and denser as the weeks go by. So, why in the HELL are you talking about estrogen levels being "out of control" and holding a "shit ton of water"? Either you didn't even look at the cycle recommendation (in which case you just wanted to argue for no reason)...or you have no clue what type of effects these drugs have on people!!! Obviously, you've never used these drugs in this combo before, or else you wouldn't be saying this. Anyone who knows what to expect from these drugs would NEVER say that this cycle would would cause a "shit ton" of water retention and estrogen levels which are "out of control". After reading this comment of yours, it is brutally apparent that you are lackinga near-bascic level of knowledge concerning these drugs. Don't get angry at that statemnet...because its true. Anyone who has used those drugs in that combination...or has even a mediocre understanding of each of those drugs in general, would not have said that. II'll tell you what...I will give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume you were overly tirred and didn't realize what you were typing.


Now, if Masteron was not included in the cycle, I would have recommend Aromasin, as I believe it is by fat the best AI for several reasons, but since Mast is in the cycle, the relatively low dose of test does not require it.

Going back one more time to the idea of "what is appropriate for those who have just entered the world of AAS", I believe there are many factors to take into consideration when determining what is and isn't "OK". Regardless, I am adamantly, 100% AGAINST the common notion that test should always be one's 1st cycle. In fact, in some cases it is an absolutely TERERIBLE idea. What the best steroid is for anyone, regardless of experience level, depends on many factors, including what is most important to the individual. Would you give a guy who makes his living off of fitness modeling and who is potentially prone to hair loss, testosterone for his 1st cycle? Only if you're a complete dolt! I am NOT calling you a dolt, but you get my point. Fitness models depend on nice hair, clear skin, and good overall skin tone. Giving a drug which is well known to cause acne, oily skin, and hair loss, such as testosterone, to someone like that would be the worst possible call. There are many more reason why testosterone is NOT a good drug for someone. There are many people out there who have goals other than just "packing on the mass". These people's goals are not any less important than your's or mine, regardless of what they are. What matters is what is important too them. As long as they are not putting their lives in danger, they should be doing what makes the most sense for them..what is in accordance with their goals. I am sick and tired of hearing BB'rs put down people who don't want to use test for their 1st cycle because they have other goals and priorities. I have heard many BB'rs say STUPID shit like..."If you're not ready to use testosterone, you're not ready for steroids". Or..."If you care more about your hair or skin than getting big, steroids are not for you". Those are the most assinine, retarded-ass things I have ever heard!

I am not 100% against that. And I made no cycle reconmendations.

You seem like a cool guy and all, but if you're going to call me out, I am going to stick it to you, especially when you're wrong. See, part of the problem is that it is impossible, in one short article, to address every possible need or cover all relevant information. In truth, if someone is going to make all their decisions based on reading a single article and not do any other research, that is one them...NOT me. How could I possibly cover everything that is important or relevant in one article? There is a lot to learn about steroids in general before using stereoids...and we should continue learning as we go along. It is not fair or reasonable to put that resposibility on me because I wrote a single article. Additionally, there is no single cycle that is ideal for everyone and each person has varying levels of knowledge regarding steroid apllication and potential side effects. It is impossible for me to meet the needs of all.

HAHAHAis that a joke what did I say that was wrong.
Everything.

Call me out how?
I said "you" called me out.

Your defending points I did not make. And you far from stuck it to me.
Well, if you think being wrong about every point isn't akin to getting the sharp end of the stick, you may not know what that comment means. Not only did I stick it to you, I ground it into your bones and left bone fragments lodged in your body.

You just made your self seem like a know it all that cant have any one have a different opinion than you.
I think you made yourself look foolish, but hey, that's just my point of view. However, 90% of what we discussed here was not a matter of one's "point of view", but of right vs. wrong. Now, if you want to include an anti-P in your tren cycles just in case your're the 1/5000 guy who gets that side effect, that is fine. That is considered a "point of view". But...when you come in here and say that my cycle recommendations are irresponsible because I didn't include any ancillaries to prevent lactation...and the cycle would cause someone to hold a shit-ton of water...and would cause their estrogen levels to get "out of control"...you are NOT presenting your "point of view". When you do that, you are making false statements...and when you make false statements which portray me in a negative light, you are damn right I am going to call you out on it! Now, you are free to believe that my cycle is not appropriate for those who are still new to AAS and you are also free to believe that every 1st time AAS user should only use testosterone. That is also a point of view, but the rest of the stuff mentioined here, as well as a few other things you stated above, do not fall into the category of "point of view".


So...in this article, I decided to put together a cycle which is well known to give tremendous results in almost every area, in order to meet a broad range of individual goals, such as increased size, strength, fat loss, and muscle quality, but at the same time, it isn't going to present any serious risk to the user. I assume that anyone who cosiders running this cycle will do the necessary research...and if they don't, that is not my fault. No matter what cycle I suggest, it is always up to each idividual to educate themselves properly prior to use. If someone does run this cycle without educating themselves, what is the worst case scenario? They will get much bigger, stronger, maybe lose fat (depending in caloric intake relative to metabolic need) and look much better...and they may lose some hair (but if they are prone to it, hair loss is going to occur even if all they use is testosterone). All other side effects will be transient. In the end, they will be no worse for the wear.

You seem to be very proud of your article
No...not really. I have written 100's of articles, many which took quite as bit of work. Some I was proud of because I felt they addressed topic(s) which hadn't really been brought to the forefront yet. This article is very basic and elementary...nothing more than a guideline for someone who needs help putting together a cycle which results in the positive effects I listed.

and that is great but keep an open mind
I ALWAYS do...which is why I devote at least 2 hours every day (for the last 20 years) purely to study. The rest of my time is spent working in the real-world of BB'ing as a coach.

we are learning more and more about this stuff daily and you are not the end all be all of steroids bud.
You may have felt that way about yourself at some point, but don't push your feelings/beliefs on others who don't share them. However, I do feel obligated to defend truth. I owe it to those who depend on me to get the REAL truth...not a bunch of nicely wrapped up bullshit from con artists and those with agendas. No one is always right...and I have certainly made my share of mistakes, but I will never sit by and watch someone criticize me without just cause.


A all I said above is that "I dont think this is a beginner cycle"and a couple reasons why GICH! Good luck with your articles.
No...that is not all you said. That is ONE thing you said, which I didn't have any issue with.

Lastly, don't take my brash tone the wrong way. yYu are OK by me. I can get a litle intense and/or passionate at times, but I have no ill will toiwards you or anyone else. Glad you're posting here.

Your most recent comments are higlighted in red....and my responses to them are highlighted in blue.

Lot of absolutes there. At what point did I say more ancileries were "required". Please google "prolactin side effects steroids" cause you will find plenty of people expierencing them on different boards probably even some here. Hell, what about ensomnia, tren cough elevated liver enzymes from the anadrol(if on other meds like me this could be a prob). I agree with your doses the chances of sides are small but I would not say they are NEVER going to happen. All you can speak for is your expierence and everyone reacts different. And a "beginner" might look at this and take everything at face value. Part of suggesting a cycle to a beginner is educating them on everything associated with the compounds being used.

LOL, you can advise your customers however you want no skin off my back.

Ps. no way in hell was I going to read all that blue

tuff stuff lol

Also, I will more than likely be giving you guys a shot. No hard feelings here.

Originally Posted by skinnyguy180

Lot of absolutes there.
Yes...some things are absolute.

At what point did I say more ancileries were "required".
I consider the word "need" and "require" to have basically the same meaning, especially when your comment is read in context . Here is your quote above..."When taking tren there are other sides to look out for other than gyno. Like prolactin. And you did not mention that different ancileries would be needed for that other than nolva"...end qoute. Here is another "...four different compunds for the first go and especialy without ancilleries?"...end quote. These qoutes can be found in Post #3, sentences #3 and #5.

This was what you stated in your 1st post and which was responsible for me disagreeing with you. In fact, this was the very basis for your argument!!! All anyone needsto do is read the last fw posts to see that. Every previous post I put up was centered around this very comment, but you refused to conceed your mistake...and now, all of a sudden...you deny you said it? Good thing these boards keep a record of what was typed.


Please google "prolactin side effects steroids" cause you will find plenty of people expierencing them on different boards probably even some here.
No...many times people "think" the side effects they experience when using Tren are due to prolactin, but they are NOT! Like I said previously, there are only TWO side effects asssociated with tren and its (often misunderstood) ability to increase prolactin. The most common side effect, by a landslide, is sexual dysfunction. Many people think that when they experience this side effect, it is due to prolactin, but this is rarely, if ever...the case. You should read my text above for information on this false belief. The ONLY other prolactin side effect reported by steroid users is lactation, but like I said above...this is EXTREMELY rare and will never occur with low doses of tren, particularly when estrogen is well managed. I would guess maybe 1/5000 tren user have experience this side effect. It is VERY uncommon.


So, if amost no one is experiencing lactation...and the sexual dysfunction people are experiencing from Tren is not due to prolactin, would you please tell me again how many people are experiencing prolactin sides from Tren? Exactly. You are the victim of ignorance...just going along with what you read and blindly accepting it as truth. You just "assumed" that every time someone put up a post about tren and prolactin side effects, that prolactin was the cause. 999/1,000 of the posts you will pull up on Google, from users who say they are experiencing Tren's prolactin side effects, are talking about sexual dysfunction...NOT lactation. This make sense, as many are just now starting to realize that prolactin is not the cause of this side effect. In fact, you just learned it today.

Hell, what about ensomnia, tren cough elevated liver enzymes from the anadrol(if on other meds like me this could be a prob). I agree with your doses the chances of sides are small but I would not say they are NEVER going to happen.
You are now going off into a completely different subject, as I NEVER mentioned a WORD about insomnia or elevated liver enzymes (they certainly have nothing to do wth prolacyin)...and I NEVER said the user would not experience side effects in general. Every time ANY steroid is used, dozens of different side effects manifest to varying degrees. Most of them go unnoticed, as they are internal. In regards to insomnia, that is a very common side effect with tren...and liver enxymes are ALWAYS elevated EVERY time Aandrol is used. So, I dont know why in the hell you are saying I said those things, but I sure as fuck did NOT! So, please refrain from putting words in my mouth.

Since you bring up insomnia and elevated liver enzymes...let's talk about it. The bottom (and common sense) line is that side effects will always occur when using steroids. It is 100% up to each individual to reserach for THEMSELVES about their side effects and make a decision whether or not they are acceptable to them. It is outside the scope of that article to list every possible side effect, their effects on the body, and how to prevent/minimize them. If you are in any way inferrring I should have done that, that is absoluitely fucking assinine. If I wanted to talk about steroid side effects and how to deal with them, I would have written an article on that instead. Actualy, I already wrote a 2-part article on steroids and cardiovascular health, which contains information every steroid user should know (I also wrote many more articles on side effects...even one specifically about how to deal with Tren and Nanrolone)). Let me guess...I should have included all that information in this article too, right? Hell, maybe I should have written a 100-edition encyclopedia detailing every bit of information on steroids ever known. I could have posted it, hopefully, some time before I died of old age. Would that have been more pleasing to you?


All you can speak for is your expierence and everyone reacts different.
I can also state facts when that is what they are.

And a "beginner" might look at this and take everything at face value.
...and the problme with that is? Like I said, it is the responsibility of each individual to educate themselves on each drug they take BEFORE they take them. Don't put that responsibility on me. See above paragraph.

Part of suggesting a cycle to a beginner is educating them on everything associated with the compounds being used.
LOL...right..... You gonna write that book for me? I mean, books. Ha. You sound less than intelligent right now...and like someone whose pride is their stumbling block. I am sorry, but you do. Instead of you simply admitting you were wrong about your 1st post and that that those ancillaries were NOT needed...you have continued to argue, going off into various subjects I have never even touched on now, putting words in my mouth, and now you have finally gotten to the point where you are insisting I should have educated the reader on "EVERYTHING" associated with these compounds. WOW!

LOL, you can advise your customers however you want no skin off my back.
It's a good thing.

Ps. no way in hell was I going to read all that blue
I have seen this type of comment many times...and in most cases, the person did indeed read the post...they just don't want to admit it because they have absolutely nothing to counter the other person's rebuttals. Basically, the person is trying to save face with other members who may be following along...because they know they've lost, but refuse to admit. However, you will notice that the people who usually make these type of comments ALWAYS continue to argue by putting up response after response. Hmmm??? If nothing is being read, what are you responding to? Do you like to talk to yourself?

On the other hand, if you didn't read my post, then what are you arguing about? Why continue to post in this thread if you don't know what is being said and are not part of the argument? Doesn't make much sense, does it? Again...you either like talking to walls, or you are trying to save face. Which is it?

However, one interesting fact I noticed with your continued responses (yes, your response to something you didn't read) is that your comments were relevant to the topic, indicating the post was read. Regardless...like I said, it makes you look dumb either way...and lazy. It always amazes me how the person doesn't have 30-60 seconds to read what was posted, but he has plenty of time to type out post after post of his own in response to something he didn't read. Now that's some confusing shit. Would you like to clear it up for us?

....

Originally Posted by skinnyguy180

Also, I will more than likely be giving you guys a shot. No hard feelings here.

Keep in mind, I am not PSL...I only work for PSL, as I believe they do their best to run an honest business, which in my opinion, is the single most important factor when it comes to UGL's.

No hard feelings here either...it's just the internet, after all.

HAHAH so much blue!!!

^^^^
Perfect. Complete admission of defeat.

ok sure we'll go with that.

Nice going guys
Wanted to start a new betting contest on who's right here ...... but it's over i presume

Lol

Nice!

Great information Mike,

I've read "most" everything posted here - and a'm sorry if I've glossed over any important subjects!

As far as the subject of tren - I've found this...

Tren and test - are both - highly androgenic - and compete for the "same" androgen receptors.

Which means - you want more of the dry-lean effect of tren over test...

This has lead me to run tren - at twice the dose of test - with very good results and very low
sides because of lowering the test - and amping up the tren.

Oh - I almost forgot - I have not needed to run Prami with this type of cycle...

Anyhow (as always) - great post Mike,

Repo ... "Kudos to PSL."

Originally Posted by Repo

Great information Mike,

I've read "most" everything posted here - and a'm sorry if I've glossed over any important subjects!

As far as the subject of tren - I've found this...

Tren and test - are both - highly androgenic - and compete for the "same" androgen receptors.

Which means - you want more of the dry-lean effect of tren over test...

This has lead me to run tren - at twice the dose of test - with very good results and very low
sides because of lowering the test - and amping up the tren.

Oh - I almost forgot - I have not needed to run Prami with this type of cycle...

Anyhow (as always) - great post Mike,

Repo ... "Kudos to PSL."

Yeah, that method has becme popular over the last year or so among a lot of guys.

Great article

Originally Posted by P.S.L.

Nice going guys
Wanted to start a new betting contest on who's right here ...... but it's over i presume

Fuck no-is not over !! Great exchnge-that is how we learn-Thanks Guys -OD

Looks like a sweet cycle for sure!

Originally Posted by ordawg1

Fuck no-is not over !! Great exchnge-that is how we learn-Thanks Guys -OD

Hmmm... quite a good point there OD
Such arguments are in most cases progressive.

Originally Posted by ordawg1

Fuck no-is not over !! Great exchnge-that is how we learn-Thanks Guys -OD

LOL - that's why we dig ya OD.

Spot-on buddy ... this IS what we do ... "and do it well."

Here's what we do guys...

We look at history - look at proven data - then test and push it to the MAX - (where we know we can) - based on research.

As a young child, my mentor (R.I.P.) taught me to LEARN the rules ... "then BREAK them."

As PSL moves forward - you guys will see me push myself to the limits ... "then post results - along with lab tests."

From my view - PSL - "is" the place to put your research and studies into.

As many of my good friends know ... I've done this with (ONLY) one other source - "who became a very good friend."

After that - I've been silent for almost a year ... because I simply did not see any other sources I felt comfortable recommending
enough to put my name on.

However, - I do personally feel PSL is your best choice ... "hands-down!"

Repo

Nicely put.

great thread. Lot of great information.

Great info guys...

A "gentleman's debate" - is the best thing we can do to advance the content on the forums -
and create the most - "knowledgable members and" (at the same time) ... add the most value - to all of our time
on this forum ... "as we bounce ideas - and experience off each others history."

...and sometimes a spanking is in order.