Thread: HCG : Is it worth it?

HCG is worth it.
Your testes wont go into full atrophy that fast after cycle.
Once your pituitary starts producing a little LH/FSH, your testes will be re-stimulated!

A pretty comprehensive posting on hCG use during cycle (and why,) from Eric Potratz:

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/pr...reference.html

I personally found it very informative. It also discusses, though not in great detail, Insulin-like factor 3 (INSL3,) which I'm guessing is IGF-LR3 but I could be completely wrong.

Interesting read silentbob, I'm yet to use hcg but I might include it in my next test p cycle. Also does resveratrol help to fight testicular atrophy, I know it helps increase sperm counts in rats according to a study but didn't say anything regarding testicular size that I saw.

Hcg is good for numerous reasons:

1) keeps your balls swinging
2) helps with free testosterone.
3) it ups my libido & performance
4) makes PCT easier.

Originally Posted by SilentBob187

A pretty comprehensive posting on hCG use during cycle (and why,) from Eric Potratz:

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/pr...reference.html

I personally found it very informative. It also discusses, though not in great detail, Insulin-like factor 3 (INSL3,) which I'm guessing is IGF-LR3 but I could be completely wrong.

Many thanks, this answers my questions. Particular the section that states that the size of your testicles does not necessary correlate to the abilty to produce testosterone : I quote:

"Note: visually analyzing testes size is a poor method of judging your actual testicular function, since testicular size is not directly related to the ability to secrete testosterone. (4) This is because the leydig cells, which are the primary sites of testosterone secretion, only make up about 10% of the total testicular volume. Therefore, when the testes may only appear 5-10% smaller, the testes ability to secrete testosterone upon LH or hCG stimulation can actually be significantly reduced to 98% of their normal production. (3-5) So do not judge how "shutdown" you are by testicular size!"

The post also suggests that its better to run HCG is small dosages throughout rather than at the end, since you will respond better at this time and that you should not run HCG during PCT. Note I knew that it should not be run during PCT from other articles but yet people still seem to insist on doing this on other forums.

So thanks again.

Originally Posted by Pituitary

In the past I have used HCG in small dosages throughout cycle to prevent testicular atrophy or at the end of the cycle just before the start of PCT. In my experience I find that this does indeed either prevert shrinkage or get them back up to size depening on the methodology used. The problem I find is this:-

1. Within about a week of cessetation of HCG they shrink back down again and remain that way until PCT has cleared. So my question is there any point in using it at all?

However from reading up on the drug it seems logically to include it in my cycles since it stimulates the Leydig cells in the testes to produce testosterone by mimicking Leutenizing Hormone. But having atrophied testicles for most of PCT seems to contradict using it in the first place.

2. Another question is that there are artcicles out there that state that IGF-LR3 will also prevent shrinkage or bring them back in the same way. I have never found this to be true. The IGF-LR3 I have used is definately real. Has anyone else found this to be true?

Thanks in advance

what your goal is? return to an enlarged testicouls shape,after a AAS cycle?
ok..when u use HCG u need to know to take it just only for a period of 15
days at maximum. 2,000IU (till 5,000IU at max.) every 3-5days.
However u need to know HCG will just only 'mimc' LH signal....so,within soon,u'll return to have small testiculous.
So,u need Clomid after your HCG cycle...and your testiculous will return to the right
dimension

Originally Posted by Starchild

what your goal is? return to an enlarged testicouls shape,after a AAS cycle?
ok..when u use HCG u need to know to take it just only for a period of 15
days at maximum. 2,000IU (till 5,000IU at max.) every 3-5days.
However u need to know HCG will just only 'mimc' LH signal....so,within soon,u'll return to have small testiculous.
So,u need Clomid after your HCG cycle...and your testiculous will return to the right
dimension

I was thinking of taking it three times a week (250iu x 3) from day 14 right through the whole cycle non stop, as stated in the article that 'SilentBob187' kindly shared. So is that not ok then, since you state that it cant be taken for more than 15 days maximum? Im confused now lol

It's not expensive so I don't see how it's not worth it.

I think it is fine to use throughout your cycle. 250 twice a week works well for me.

Sounds good. Do you use it from day 1 or from 14 days in (as stated in the aforementioned article). I would have thought it be better to use it right from the start myself

Depending on the length of your cycle, but usually it is started anywhere from 2 weeks in to halfway through, depends on who you ask and what you read. Main thing is to get it started early so you get those boys back.

Originally Posted by HATEFULone

Depending on the length of your cycle, but usually it is started anywhere from 2 weeks in to halfway through, depends on who you ask and what you read. Main thing is to get it started early so you get those boys back.

Yea, sounds good. Im a fan of 12 week cycles; 8 week sus + 4 weeks prop (at end) but maybe stacking with Deca or Eq next time so obviously if thats the case would be more like 16 weeks

Originally Posted by Pituitary

Yea, sounds good. Im a fan of 12 week cycles; 8 week sus + 4 weeks prop (at end) but maybe stacking with Deca or Eq next time so obviously if thats the case would be more like 16 weeks

My last cycle was 16 weeks of test p and eq, pinned EOD, loved it, no hcg use, next time I definitely will use it though just better to be safe than sorry.

500iu HCG twice weekly is about minimum to restore ITT levels.

Originally Posted by Pituitary

Sounds good. Do you use it from day 1 or from 14 days in (as stated in the aforementioned article). I would have thought it be better to use it right from the start myself

I start from the beginning. I agree with Heavy that 500 wk is the minimum. I've tried less and it doesn't work nearly as well. I may want to try more next time around. I've done it post-cycle as well, many years ago, and I can tell you it does not work nearly as well as throughout the cycle, either.

Originally Posted by MDR

I start from the beginning. I agree with Heavy that 500 wk is the minimum. I've tried less and it doesn't work nearly as well. I may want to try more next time around. I've done it post-cycle as well, many years ago, and I can tell you it does not work nearly as well as throughout the cycle, either.

But he said 500iu 2X week (1000iu/Week).

Originally Posted by Buzzard

But he said 500iu 2X week (1000iu/Week).

Right you are, and I meant to say the same thing. Probably wrote 250X2 'cause that is what I took for so long. Sorry about the misprint. Last cycle 500X2 worked much better for me. Thanks for pointing out the error.

500iu twice a week (1000iu) sounds good to me. Will try this

IMO, you can run HCG last 3 weeks leading to PCT and be perfectly fine..
Cheaper.
Less injects throughout.
Less estrogen.
Leydig cells wont be desensitized..

No need to run most of cycle..
That article is a marketing scam.. IMO

Originally Posted by Gamer2be08

IMO, you can run HCG last 3 weeks leading to PCT and be perfectly fine..
Cheaper.
Less injects throughout.
Less estrogen.
Leydig cells wont be desensitized..

No need to run most of cycle..
That article is a marketing scam.. IMO

In my experience this just does not work nearly as well. The benefit from upping my dose to 500 2x a week throughout my cycle compared to 250 2x a week (which I'd been doing for years) was noticeable for me, and my PCT was very smooth. Blood work after PCT was also excellent. It is not expensive, and personally I want to make sure that I am doing all I can to restore natural production.

supposing u'ld want to use teslac(testolattone) in the place of clomid.
all what i know is only about much more expensive price than clomid,while i know nothing about it and its effectiveness to restore hpta. is it more efficacious or same than clomid? (i'm not able to find it at my pharmcy)

Originally Posted by Starchild

what your goal is? return to an enlarged testicouls shape,after a AAS cycle?
ok..when u use HCG u need to know to take it just only for a period of 15
days at maximum. 2,000IU (till 5,000IU at max.) every 3-5days.
However u need to know HCG will just only 'mimc' LH signal....so,within soon,u'll return to have small testiculous.
So,u need Clomid after your HCG cycle...and your testiculous will return to the right
dimension

what the fuck are testiculous?

Originally Posted by MDR

In my experience this just does not work nearly as well. The benefit from upping my dose to 500 2x a week throughout my cycle compared to 250 2x a week (which I'd been doing for years) was noticeable for me, and my PCT was very smooth. Blood work after PCT was also excellent. It is not expensive, and personally I want to make sure that I am doing all I can to restore natural production.

Running it at the end is what I did, and I am having a great PCT as of now..
Random boners throughout day.
High libido and energy..
Hav not lost size..

Originally Posted by Gamer2be08

Running it at the end is what I did, and I am having a great PCT as of now..
Random boners throughout day.
High libido and energy..
Hav not lost size..

Hopefully you will be able to restore your ITT levels permanently. If you are able to do that running Hcg for only a few weeks at the end of your cycle, that's great. Does not work for me, though. Like Heavyiron already stated, 500 twice weekly is about the minimum to fully restore ITT levels. In my case, this is very true. I was using half that amount for years, and my results were not nearly as good, according to my end-cycle bloodwork after PCT.

Originally Posted by MDR

Hopefully you will be able to restore your ITT levels permanently. If you are able to do that running Hcg for only a few weeks at the end of your cycle, that's great. Does not work for me, though. Like Heavyiron already stated, 500 twice weekly is about the minimum to fully restore ITT levels. In my case, this is very true. I was using half that amount for years, and my results were not nearly as good, according to my end-cycle bloodwork after PCT.

Any chance you would be able to post those lab results, it would be great to compare.

Originally Posted by Gamer2be08

That article is a marketing scam.. IMO

Hello Gamer,

I am curious when Eric started selling HCG? If that article was designed to simply sell HCG, I want to see if my product credit can be applied to it.

(If the sarcasm is being missed, we have no reason to "market" HCG)

Originally Posted by Gamer2be08

IMO, you can run HCG last 3 weeks leading to PCT and be perfectly fine..
Cheaper.
Less injects throughout.
Less estrogen.
Leydig cells wont be desensitized..

No need to run most of cycle..
That article is a marketing scam.. IMO

A marketing scam?

Gamer, you obviously don't understand the complexities at work here in both the potential pathophysiology or comprised endrocrine functions that are involved. Do you realize that if you've desensitized the testes enough that you can lose permanent function at varying levels? Yes, this means you can become a victim of primary hypogonadism and be on TRT the rest of your life because you're testes no longer respond to LH/FSH stimulation, and your ITT/INSL3levels are no longer therapeutic for optimal homeostatic function. I don't know about you, but I don't want to live on artificial test the rest of my life...

Refer to this point from the article:

To get an idea of how quickly you can reduce your testosterone secretion capacity from your average steroid cycle, consider this: LH levels are rapidly decreased by the 2nd day of steroid administration. (2,9,10) By shutting down the LH signal and allowing the testis to be non-functional over a 12-16 week period, leydig cell volume decreases 90%, ITT decreases 94%, INSL3 decreases 95%, while the capacity to secrete testosterone decreases as much as 98%. (2-6)

Note: visually analyzing testes size is a poor method of judging your actual testicular function, since testicular size is not directly related to the ability to secrete testosterone. (4) This is because the leydig cells, which are the primary sites of testosterone secretion, only make up about 10% of the total testicular volume. Therefore, when the testes may only appear 5-10% smaller, the testes ability to secrete testosterone upon LH or hCG stimulation can actually be significantly reduced to 98% of their normal production. (3-5) So do not judge how "shutdown" you are by testicular size!

So, if you're going to attempt refute something you probably should have some scientific substance to further support your "anecdotal" views. There are plenty to support ours here as listed in the references. To come in here and say this is a "marketing scam" is about as ridiculous as your unsubstantiated views on the topic.

Haters gonna hate...


-John

Originally Posted by Gamer2be08

IMO, you can run HCG last 3 weeks leading to PCT and be perfectly fine..
Cheaper.
Less injects throughout.
Less estrogen.
Leydig cells wont be desensitized..

No need to run most of cycle..
That article is a marketing scam.. IMO

Can you post your reasoning for this? Studies for this protocol?? Feedback from others??? I'm just curious, and would like to know why you think this method is viable.