Hershiser, Gooden on Hall ballot, but not Rose

min0 lee · 11-28-2005, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Hershiser, Gooden on Hall ballot, but not Rose

NEW YORK -- Pete Rose's eligibility for the baseball writers' Hall of Fame ballot expired Monday when the 2006 candidates were announced, a group that includes Cy Young Award winners Orel Hershiser and Dwight Gooden.

Albert Belle, Will Clark and Chicago White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen were among 14 first-time candidates on the 29-man ballot. Bruce Sutter is the holdover who came closest to election, falling 43 votes shy last year.

Following an investigation of his gambling, Rose agreed in August 1989 to a lifetime ban. The Hall's board of directors voted unanimously in February 2001 that anyone on the permanently ineligible list couldn't appear on the BBWAA ballot.

Rose, baseball's career hits leader, applied for reinstatement in September 1997 and met with commissioner Bud Selig in November 2002. His efforts to end his suspension appeared to falter after he admitted in his 2004 autobiography, ``Pete Rose: My Prison Without Bars,'' that he bet on the Cincinnati Reds while managing the teams in the late 1980s.

First-year candidates include pitchers Rick Aguilera, Alex Fernandez, Doug Jones and John Wetteland and infielders Gary DiSarcina, Gary Gaetti, Gregg Jefferies, Hal Morris and Walt Weiss.

To gain election, a player must be selected on 75 percent or more of the ballots. Sutter was on 66.7 percent of the ballots last year, followed by Jim Rice (59.5), Rich Gossage (55.2) and Andre Dawson (52.3).

Gooden was the NL Rookie of the Year season in 1984 and won the Cy Young the following year after going 24-4 with a 1.53 ERA. Hershiser was the Cy Young in 1988, when he pitched a record 59 consecutive scoreless innings during the regular season, then was selected MVP of the NL championship series and the World Series.

Belle led the AL in RBI three times and finished a .295 batting average, 381 homers and 1,239 RBI. Clark had a .303 career average, 284 homers and 1,205 RBI.

Guillen was AL Rookie of the Year in 1985.

Reporters who have been in the BBWAA for 10 or more consecutive years are eligible to vote, and the totals will be announced Jan. 10.

The complete ballot:

Rick Aguilera, Albert Belle, Bert Blyleven, Will Clark, Dave Concepcion, Andre Dawson, Gary DiSarcina, Alex Fernandez, Gary Gaetti, Steve Garvey, Dwight Gooden, Rich Gossage, Ozzie Guillen, Orel Hershiser, Gregg Jefferies, Tommy John, Doug Jones, Don Mattingly, Willie McGee, Hal Morris, Jack Morris, Dale Murphy, Dave Parker, Jim Rice, Lee Smith, Bruce Sutter, Alan Trammell, Walt Weiss, John Wetteland.

If Gooden gets in the hall of fame before Rose does......I'll..I'll.....

This years ballot looks pretty weak as has the past few years. If I had to vote for 5 the most, well here's my opinion on them.

Rick Aguilera ---nope, average pitcher

Albert Belle---nope,Real good hitter but not a team player and off the field an asshole.

Bert Blyleven--maybe, was he dominant ever?

Will Clark--nope, will the thrill was ok

Dave Concepcion--nope, he was surrounded by great players but was he great?

Andre Dawson--hmmm,

Gary DiSarcina----never heard of him

Alex Fernandez---nope, you need at least 200 wins

Gary Gaetti---nope, .255 batting average for an average fielder.

Steve Garvey-- maybe, he does have .294 which not too bad. Was a leader on some good Dodger teams.

Dwight Gooden--Nope, when he first came up I thought he had the potential to be one of the best...instead he became a fucking bum..he is a huge disapointment.

Rich Gossage---Yes, was he dominant.....hell yes! If you were ever to imagine what a reliever should look like it's him.

Ozzie Guillen--nope, maybe he can try as a manager.

Orel Hershiser--Yes, he was unhittable in the playoffs...god I hate the Dodgers

Gregg Jefferies--nope, had he learned some defense he would have probably found a team who wanted him.

Tommy John--Maybe, was he dominant ever..no. But they did name that shoulder surgery after him. He was once called the Bionic man

Doug Jones---nope,

Don Mattingly---This on is so tough. He had some great numbers for 5 years before his back went out and he became average. I have to say though he was probably in the top 5 as far as fielders I ever seen in his position.

Willie McGee-- nope

Hal Morris--nope

Jack Morris---Yes, one of the last bull dogs in baseball and has over 200 wins

Dale Murphy--- ?? an enigma, he was good but. I don't know

Dave Parker--maybe, a 5 tool player with one of the strongest arms ever.

Jim Rice--Yes, he was awesome even if he did play for that team.

Lee Smith--nope, a complier

Bruce Sutter--Yes, the first player I ever saw with a dominant split finger fast ball

Alan Trammell, Walt Weiss, John Wetteland----no, no and no

lnvanry · 11-28-2005, 04:27 PM

Andre Dawson

GO CUBS!

Don Mattingly

Orel Hershiser

Wasn't Gooden caught smoking or pocessing crack w/ Daryl Strawberry? Crackies do not belong in the hall of fame.

Will Clark gets a maybe mark??????

min0 lee · 11-28-2005, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lnvanry

Andre Dawson

GO CUBS!

Don Mattingly

Orel Hershiser

Wasn't Gooden caught smoking or pocessing crack w/ Daryl Strawberry? Crackies do not belong in the hall of fame.

Will Clark gets a maybe mark??????

Gooden did alot of crap, he was so stoned or drunk that he was the only player who missed the ticker tape parade in the Canyon of Heros thrown for the NYMets after beating Boston in 1986.

He was awesome the couple of years.

**Dale Mabry** · 11-28-2005, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lnvanry

Crackies do not belong in the hall of fame.

Oh shit, I thought you said crackers. I was gonna ask how Mattingly and Hershiser could get in if crackers can't get in.

dougnukem · 11-28-2005, 05:45 PM

Gooden is also a wife beater.
Guillen was a great fielder and average hitter so that's a tough one.
Dawson was good for a few years with the Cubs, the rest he sucked. (I'm a Cubs fan, so I know these things)
Dave Parker was quite good in his prime.
Lee Smith was one of the best closers during his time. (another ex-Cub)
--you know, I notice a lot of ex-Cubs players in this lineup. Strange how that is.

**I Are Baboon** · 11-28-2005, 07:57 PM

I thought Will Clark's numbers were better than they actually are:

1976 games
284 HR
1205 RBI
2176 hits
.303 average

I was always a Will Clark fan, but those are not Hall of Fame numbers.

Orel Hershiser is a no-brainer. Jack Morris deserves to finally get elected. It's a shame he's not in already.

**P-funk** · 11-28-2005, 07:58 PM

Damn shame about Pete Rose. the man will always be one of the best to have ever played the game in my eyes.

I am a bug time Cleveland Indians fan and I can honestly say that they need to take Albert Belle right off the lift. He was a good hitter and led the team for a good portion of the 90s but hall a fame status? Come on!! He was a mediocre fielder at best and although he led the team in offense he was not a LEADER on the team.

On the flip side....Defenite Yeses to Donny Baseball and Jack Morris.

I like Hershiser for the Hall but I don't think Will Clark or Gooden are Hall a famers.

Jim Rice defenitly was a great player and I think he deserves the hall even though he does hold the record for hitting into the most double plays in one season (something like 32 or around there).

min0 lee · 11-28-2005, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Are Baboon

I thought Will Clark's numbers were better than they actually are:

1976 games
284 HR
1205 RBI
2176 hits
.303 average

I was always a Will Clark fan, but those are not Hall of Fame numbers.

Orel Hershiser is a no-brainer. Jack Morris deserves to finally get elected. It's a shame he's not in already.

I'm suprised you didn't include Jim Rice

**P-funk** · 11-28-2005, 08:01 PM

oh, and yes to Rich "the goose" gossage too. He was a relief picher back when relief pichters actually piched innings instead of this 9th inning three out bull shit. None of those guys deserve to be called relief pitchers or even break season saves records IMO. The goose and Ekersley (sp?) were just amazing! to come in the 6th or 7th inning and pitch through the 9th is a real save!

min0 lee · 11-28-2005, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

oh, and yes to Rich "the goose" gossage too. He was a relief picher back when relief pichters actually piched innings instead of this 9th inning three out bull shit. None of those guys deserve to be called relief pitchers or even break season saves records IMO. The goose and Ekersley (sp?) were just amazing! to come in the 6th or 7th inning and pitch through the 9th is a real save!

Don't forget about Bruce Sutter, he was very good.

**P-funk** · 11-28-2005, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Don't forget about Bruce Sutter, he was very good.

yea, sutter too..defenitly worthy.

lol, i love what you said about Dale Murphy...hahah...an enigma but was he really that good? hahahhaha....I can't rember if he was a really great player or just a good player that got a lot of name dropping.

min0 lee · 11-28-2005, 08:20 PM

I remember him when he played with Bob Horner??? he was good but then he just fell off the face of the earth. Maybe it was because Atlanta was just awful.

**P-funk** · 11-28-2005, 08:23 PM

yea, maybe that was the problem. Atlanta wasn't all that great. I really can't remeber.

one of the problems with baseball is that the players careers are so long that a decent player can rack up some hall of fame like numbers just because they have been playing long enough to do so but they might not be a hall a fame calliber player. That is how I feel about Rafael Palmero.

min0 lee · 11-28-2005, 08:26 PM

Exactly, he has great numbers but he never led in any catorgory. I would take any of Mattinglys best 5 years over his 5 best years. He was good but he wasn't the dominant first baseman of his era.

11-28-2005, 07:58 PM	#7
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,573	Damn shame about Pete Rose. the man will always be one of the best to have ever played the game in my eyes. I am a bug time Cleveland Indians fan and I can honestly say that they need to take Albert Belle right off the lift. He was a good hitter and led the team for a good portion of the 90s but hall a fame status? Come on!! He was a mediocre fielder at best and although he led the team in offense he was not a LEADER on the team. On the flip side....Defenite Yeses to Donny Baseball and Jack Morris. I like Hershiser for the Hall but I don't think Will Clark or Gooden are Hall a famers. Jim Rice defenitly was a great player and I think he deserves the hall even though he does hold the record for hitting into the most double plays in one season (something like 32 or around there).
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

11-28-2005, 08:01 PM	#9
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,573	oh, and yes to Rich "the goose" gossage too. He was a relief picher back when relief pichters actually piched innings instead of this 9th inning three out bull shit. None of those guys deserve to be called relief pitchers or even break season saves records IMO. The goose and Ekersley (sp?) were just amazing! to come in the 6th or 7th inning and pitch through the 9th is a real save!
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

11-28-2005, 08:20 PM	#12
min0 lee Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The Bronx, NYC Posts: 33,683 Blog Entries: 3 Photos: 542	I remember him when he played with Bob Horner??? he was good but then he just fell off the face of the earth. Maybe it was because Atlanta was just awful.
	How To Do The Perfect Bench Press Rep Bodybuilding and Lifting Weights, the Difference ironmagazine-frapper BONECRUSHER '08

11-28-2005, 08:23 PM	#13
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,573	yea, maybe that was the problem. Atlanta wasn't all that great. I really can't remeber. one of the problems with baseball is that the players careers are so long that a decent player can rack up some hall of fame like numbers just because they have been playing long enough to do so but they might not be a hall a fame calliber player. That is how I feel about Rafael Palmero.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

11-28-2005, 08:26 PM	#14
min0 lee Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The Bronx, NYC Posts: 33,683 Blog Entries: 3 Photos: 542	Exactly, he has great numbers but he never led in any catorgory. I would take any of Mattinglys best 5 years over his 5 best years. He was good but he wasn't the dominant first baseman of his era.
	How To Do The Perfect Bench Press Rep Bodybuilding and Lifting Weights, the Difference ironmagazine-frapper BONECRUSHER '08

11-28-2005, 04:27 PM	#2
lnvanry primeau Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Phoenix Posts: 3,102 Photos: 12	Andre Dawson GO CUBS! Don Mattingly Orel Hershiser Wasn't Gooden caught smoking or pocessing crack w/ Daryl Strawberry? Crackies do not belong in the hall of fame. Will Clark gets a maybe mark??????

11-28-2005, 05:45 PM	#5
dougnukem The American Dream Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Fort Walton Beach, FL Posts: 1,802 Photos: 6	Gooden is also a wife beater. Guillen was a great fielder and average hitter so that's a tough one. Dawson was good for a few years with the Cubs, the rest he sucked. (I'm a Cubs fan, so I know these things) Dave Parker was quite good in his prime. Lee Smith was one of the best closers during his time. (another ex-Cub) --you know, I notice a lot of ex-Cubs players in this lineup. Strange how that is.

11-28-2005, 07:57 PM	#6
I Are Baboon pedal pedal pedal Moderator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Beerville Posts: 10,988 Photos: 10	I thought Will Clark's numbers were better than they actually are: 1976 games 284 HR 1205 RBI 2176 hits .303 average I was always a Will Clark fan, but those are not Hall of Fame numbers. Orel Hershiser is a no-brainer. Jack Morris deserves to finally get elected. It's a shame he's not in already.

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