Thread: Jays adding to the Roster

Man, the Jays are loading up. They're going to be a force this season.

Yeah it is amazing what a few extra million dollars can.

Now they need to get back to 50K+ fans attending games again and not this 20K shit

I havent been to a Jays game since our middle school took us a long time ago lol. I havent been following them lately either but maybe this year i'll take in a game or two.

Not good for the Yankees, why didn't the Angels sign him? Anyone know?

Damnit! Not good for the Orioles either! Why is that the Jays know to load up on players and the Orioles can't get shit for a pitcher!!!

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Not good for the Yankees, why didn't the Angels sign him? Anyone know?

Jeff Mathis projects to put up similar numbers while holding his own defensively at the minimum, whereas Molina was demanding 7-8 million.

Originally Posted by I Are Baboon

Man, the Jays are loading up. They're going to be a force this season.

I disagree.

First of all the Jays severely overpayed for an injury-prone AJ Burnett and an unproven BJ Ryan, which if it doesn't pan out, could be detrimental to that franchise for years to come.

Second of all, with Halladay, Burnett, Lilly, etc. all relying on solid defense up the middle, trading away Orlando Hudson, sticking Glaus at third, and having Russ Adams (another average to below average defender) could prove vital.

On top of that, Eric Hinske no longer has a position to play and from what was once such a promising upside, the ceiling has been reached with him.

Getting back to defense, Shea Hillenbrand in the outfield is going to be another poor decision.

The bullpen isn't deep enough, the team defense is below average... I can't imagine they'll be a force. Probably finish in third behind the Red Sox and Yankees, but perhaps could have an Orioles-like start.

We shall see.

Originally Posted by section8

Damnit! Not good for the Orioles either! Why is that the Jays know to load up on players and the Orioles can't get shit for a pitcher!!!

The O's are better off not overpaying, although its hard to ignore the fact that the Orioles are one of the worst franchises in the sport.

Originally Posted by section8

Damnit! Not good for the Orioles either! Why is that the Jays know to load up on players and the Orioles can't get shit for a pitcher!!!

The Orioles used to be one of the best run organizations till this new ownership took over.

Originally Posted by min0 lee

The Orioles used to be one of the best run organizations till this new ownership took over.

Used to be they depended on their farm organization to develop players.

Now its lets pay a lot of money to get a lot of power and forget all about the pitching. I thought letting Mussina go was a horrible mistake, take a guy like him and build a pitching staff around him so he can help younger guys develop.

But back to the topic, the Jays are looking good right now.

Originally Posted by section8

Used to be they depended on their farm organization to develop players.

Now its lets pay a lot of money to get a lot of power and forget all about the pitching. I thought letting Mussina go was a horrible mistake, take a guy like him and build a pitching staff around him so he can help younger guys develop.

But back to the topic, the Jays are looking good right now.

That's the way it should, I don't mind free agency to get the final piece, a player here there but when your team is built mostly on free agents then thats a problem.

Now its lets pay a lot of money to get a lot of power and forget all about the pitching. I thought letting Mussina go was a horrible mistake, take a guy like him and build a pitching staff around him so he can help younger guys develop.

***

not giving Mussina six years and 90 million dollars was one of the better moves Angelos and the Orioles have made in the last decade.

and the Orioles are developing pitching. Bedard is a frontline southpaw, Cabrera is an excellent number three...

Originally Posted by min0 lee

That's the way it should, I don't mind free agency to get the final piece, a player here there but when your team is built mostly on free agents then thats a problem.

Interesting statement coming from somebody whose a fan of the Yankees who will have only 4-5 players brought up through the system this season, while the other 20 are from free agency and trades.

Although, I understand what your saying. The Orioles act as if they have the Yankees funds, when in reality no one but the Yankees themselves come even close in that regard.

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

Interesting statement coming from somebody whose a fan of the Yankees who will have only 4-5 players brought up through the system this season, while the other 20 are from free agency and trades.

Although, I understand what your saying. The Orioles act as if they have the Yankees funds, when in reality no one but the Yankees themselves come even close in that regard.

Hah! I was expecting that.

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A bloated payroll. Mercenaries up and down the roster. A large Northeast city celebrating a World Series title. The media, with its East Coast bias, shoving it down your throats.
The Yankees?
Guess again. It's Red Sox, circa 2004. Or, as I like to call them, "Yankees Jr."
Once this occult fascination with ghosts and curses dies down, many average baseball fans will wake up and realize who they've been rooting for this whole time. Talk about beer goggles. This morning after won't be pretty.
The past couple of years many of us have portrayed the Red Sox in the same vein as the Cubs, lovable losers whose fans remain loyal throughout every heartbreaking moment. Cinderellas. The $185 million Yankees? They are the bullies, and we band together like lemmings to see them get their noses bloodied. But if the Red Sox are the underdogs, what does that make the Twins? Does that mean the Royals are downright Liliputian?
The Red Sox have the largest payroll -- $120 million -- of any team ever to win a World Series. If you ever have accused a team of buying a championship, then that same charge has to apply to these Red Sox as well. With that much to spend, the surprise should be if they don't win a championship or at least come close every year.

Of the four Yankees teams to win under Joe Torre, the highest payroll was $112 million in 2000. In 2001, Arizona shelled out $85 million for its title; the Angels spent $62 million for their 2002 crown; and the upstart Marlins' payroll was $54 million in 2003.
Torre's champions, while highly compensated, also had more than a few homegrown players on them. Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada, Mariano Rivera, Bernie Williams and Andy Pettitte were drafted and developed by Evil Empire, Inc.
How many among the Red Sox regulars can be considered "homegrown?" Trot Nixon and, if you want to count him, rookie Kevin Youkilis (two at-bats this postseason).
It was the Red Sox who brought the Star Wars analogy into play with this rivalry when they labeled the Yankees the "Evil Empire." That would make the Red Sox the Rebellion -- Johnny Damon as Chewbacca? Darth Vader as Pedro's daddy? -- which just blew up the Death Star to free the galaxy of tyranny. But in the final analysis, that analogy doesn't quite work. It's more like one Death Star blowing up another.
Financially, Boston and New York have distanced themselves so greatly from the rest of major league baseball that they can afford to use the other 28 teams as their own farm systems.
Nothing better illustrates this point than the tug of war these franchises waged over the services of Alex Rodriguez and his insane contract last offseason. Who else but the Yankees and Red Sox were equipped to take on that kind of price tag? That was just a preview of things to come. Every year will be an exercise in mixing and matching parts from downtrodden teams (i.e. Curt Schilling from Arizona) in hopes of fabricating a champion.
Congratulations, Red Sox. You have figured out how to beat the Yankees. You have become them.

The core of those championship Yankee teams you have

Jeter
Posada
Williams
Rivera
Petite
not a bad nix there.

Manny was a cleveland product, Ortiz was from the Twins, Pedro was from I think the Expos, Damon was from Oakland.........

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Manny was a cleveland product, Ortiz was from the Twins, Pedro was from I think the Expos, Damon was from Oakland.........

Don't get me wrong, I never said anything in regards to the Red Sox on this one. I couldnt.

The only Red Sox players who were awarded rings that were 'homegrown' were Trot Nixon, Kevin Youkilis, Nomar Garciaparra, Derek Lowe, Jason Varitek, Abe Alvarez,

Nomar wasn't apart of the team upon winning although he recieved a ring. Derek Lowe and Jason Varitek were traded for as 'a-ball' prospects (does the name Heathcliff Slocumb ring a bell?), so while homegrown in every sense of the word, they still were not drafted by the Red Sox.

You knew it was coming, that was the first time in my life i've actually been able to tell somebody that.

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

Don't get me wrong, I never said anything in regards to the Red Sox on this one. I couldnt.

The only Red Sox players who were awarded rings that were 'homegrown' were Trot Nixon, Kevin Youkilis, Nomar Garciaparra, Derek Lowe, Jason Varitek, Abe Alvarez,

Nomar wasn't apart of the team upon winning although he recieved a ring. Derek Lowe and Jason Varitek were traded for as 'a-ball' prospects (does the name Heathcliff Slocumb ring a bell?), so while homegrown in every sense of the word, they still were not drafted by the Red Sox.

You knew it was coming, that was the first time in my life i've actually been able to tell somebody that.

Truth be told, I am a Met fan but I do root for the home teams.
You tend to hear me speak more of the Yankees because that's all anyone ever talks about, the Yanks and Boston.

I think this year the Mets will improve, I hope.
For some reason everytime they get a good player they go bad, why...maybe it's the ballpark. Shea has always been a pitchers park.

Lowe I believe was originally from Seattle.

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Lowe I believe was originally from Seattle.

Correct. Thats what I was saying. Lowe and Varitek were acquired from Seattle for Heathcliff Slocumb, but at the time were prospects themselves, so even though they weren't drafted by the Red Sox, the fact that they were scouted and brought in before they were anything close to there major league-selves, the argument can be made that they fit the 'homegrown' term, atleast in some ways.

Originally Posted by min0 lee

Truth be told, I am a Met fan but I do root for the home teams.
You tend to hear me speak more of the Yankees because that's all anyone ever talks about, the Yanks and Boston.

I think this year the Mets will improve, I hope.
For some reason everytime they get a good player they go bad, why...maybe it's the ballpark. Shea has always been a pitchers park.

Well isn't that just dandy. I love the Mets.

Well, not love, but I do root for them as my 'National League' team from time to time, or atleast had in years past until Omar Minaya ruined them.

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

Well isn't that just dandy. I love the Mets.

Well, not love, but I do root for them as my 'National League' team from time to time, or atleast had in years past until Omar Minaya ruined them.

You have to give him some time, last year they were pretty much a more exciting team.
A lot of people say Steve Philips did a bad job but who would have thought Alomar would decline so bad and Mo would retire.

I have been a Met fan since the early 70's.
I vaguely remember seeing Willie Mays playing and after reading about him I asked myself who is that old imposter....he was at the end of his career.

At least I got to see one of the best pitchers ever to play...Tom Seaver.

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

not giving Mussina six years and 90 million dollars was one of the better moves Angelos and the Orioles have made in the last decade.

and the Orioles are developing pitching. Bedard is a frontline southpaw, Cabrera is an excellent number three...

I agree that Mussina was wanting a lot of money but he was still young then.

As Bedard and Cabrera they have major improvements to make. A 30-30 combined carrer record and an average ERA of 4.7 is not good pitching.

My point is this, they have all the offensive fire power they could want, but good pitching beats good hitting almost everytime and they did nothing this ofseason to go out and get a top notch pitcher and try to build a staff around the guy. I'm glad that they have Lopez, Tejada, Mora, Conine...etc, but you have to have pitching.

Thier staff may develop, I could be wrong but they have never impressed me and the owners to me are ruining what used to be a solid team

I agree that Mussina was wanting a lot of money but he was still young then.

I don't see how his age matters here. Had the Orioles given him six years and 90 million dollars which they would have had to do, they'd have another year of paying a declining mediocre pitcher 15 million dollars per year, and odds are if they had made this move Tejada wouldn't be around.

As Bedard and Cabrera they have major improvements to make. A 30-30 combined carrer record and an average ERA of 4.7 is not good pitching.

Yes, career wins and losses for improving youngsters is a great metric to use...

My point is this, they have all the offensive fire power they could want, but good pitching beats good hitting almost everytime and they did nothing this ofseason to go out and get a top notch pitcher and try to build a staff around the guy. I'm glad that they have Lopez, Tejada, Mora, Conine...etc, but you have to have pitching.

Thier staff may develop, I could be wrong but they have never impressed me and the owners to me are ruining what used to be a solid team

Yes, everybody knows pitching wins, that is beside the point. I'm just glad, for your teams sake, that your not running the show, or else your O's would be paying an injury prone AJ Burnett 11 million dollars per year for the next five. The same AJ Burnett, who by your favorite metric (wins & losses), is 49-50, a game under .500 for his career.

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

I don't see how his age matters here. Had the Orioles given him six years and 90 million dollars which they would have had to do, they'd have another year of paying a declining mediocre pitcher 15 million dollars per year, and odds are if they had made this move Tejada wouldn't be around.

I would gladly give up Tajada for a top notch pitcher.

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

Yes, career wins and losses for improving youngsters is a great metric to use...

I have seen them for a couple of years now and they just do not impress me, not just looking at W-L as a metic, I am also looking at innings pitched, SO, ERA, BB, HR and hits allowed and they just do not impress me. They might get there in a few years but take the money that they have spent on power and buy some pitching. They still need a top notch picther.

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

Yes, everybody knows pitching wins, that is beside the point. I'm just glad, for your teams sake, that your not running the show, or else your O's would be paying an injury prone AJ Burnett 11 million dollars per year for the next five. The same AJ Burnett, who by your favorite metric (wins & losses), is 49-50, a game under .500 for his career.

My point was pitching. I stated that my point was why not take some of the money they spent on power and get a top notch pitcher and a solid pitcher and build around that for the future. The O's did nothing this offseason to get a top notch pitcher, if they did I would like for you to name him for me.

As far as Burnett, never have thought much about this guy. And why would I want an injury prone pitcher when I already have DuBose and his elbow. I guess you can argue that Burnetts best year with the Marlins was 02 but noting before or after, so no I would never pay big money for a guy like this. Mussina was solid until a nagging elbow injury in 04. If I am going to spend big money on a pitcher I am going to go after Martinez or Pettitte caliber. You could do that if you didn't tie up the payroll in big hitters.

Roy Halladay has just been given a three year, $40 million extension. That dude is nasty.

And they are trying to ink Wells to an extension as well