Too many pills??

suprfast · 10-31-2009, 06:51 PM

I feel like a druggie pill popper every morning. Am i taking too much, or does it not matter. Popping pills(in terms of real vitamins/minerals/etc) is easy so i dont mind if i needed to "pop" more to make sure i have all my bases covered

Currently my pill jar daily includes:

2 x daily vitamin
8 x fish oil (total of 3000mg/3g of EPA/DHA)
1 x 200mg Caffeine(stay awake/no doze)
1 x bronkaid (25mg ephedrine sulfate, with a chases of 400mg of Guaifenesin)
1 x B12(sublingual, only one i dont swallow[let the jokes begin])
4 x vitamin c (2g total), also has some wide rose hips and citrus bioflavonoids. whatever these are.

Now that you see my medicine cabinet, am i taking too much stuff? just fine? anything you recommend i add/delete? Im open to criticism. I take everything in about 10 seconds first thing in the morning.

I also take creatine, but thats aside from all this morning remedy stuff.
Kris

PushAndPull · 10-31-2009, 07:02 PM

I take it these are not the recommended doses?

suprfast · 10-31-2009, 07:35 PM

Sure they are. all of them actually.

vitamin world multi vitamins recommend 2
naturals fish oil is 1200mg per pill(but only 375mg of dha/epa per pill so 8x375=3000)
caffeine and ephedrine combo is 10:1ratio(close enough)
b12 is one a day
vitamin C is 1-4 daily(i chose to go with 4)

Im within the daily, im just wondering if there is anything else i should add to cover my bases or if im covering too many bases at the same time.
kris

PushAndPull · 10-31-2009, 08:20 PM

Let start with the multi. If it says take two then I would.
As far as the fish oil goes, if you can stomach it, then I see no harm in it. I personally only can stomach three a day. Regardless of the amount you are taking you should split them up throughout the day, i'm surprised it doesn't say to do so.
For the b-12, i'd personally take a b-complex instead and definitely take it at a differnt time then taking the multi as it already has a b-complex(which has b-12) and only so much can be absorbed at one time.
The vitamin C should also be split up throughout the day for the same reasons as the B.
As far as the ephedrine goes, I simply recommend you don't take it.

m11 · 10-31-2009, 08:54 PM

It all looks fine.

PushAndPull · 10-31-2009, 10:23 PM

Glucosamine,Chondroitin, & MSM would also be a worthy addition to your pillfest-lol-

suprfast · 10-31-2009, 10:55 PM

I didnt think i was too far fetched. I get weird eyes when people see my medicine case, they figure i have an incurable disease or something.

Id like to split it up, but id forget to take it. First thing in the morning is easy. I can stomach anything, now where are the habaneros.
kris

**Built** · 11-01-2009, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

Let start with the multi. If it says take two then I would.
As far as the fish oil goes, if you can stomach it, then I see no harm in it. I personally only can stomach three a day.

It's not enough. Three standard 1000mg caps won't even give you a gram of EPA/DHA. Ten caps will give you 3 grams of combined EPA/DHA. I take this daily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

Regardless of the amount you are taking you should split them up throughout the day,

This is interesting, and I don't necessarily disagree, but I'd like to know your reasoning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

i'm surprised it doesn't say to do so.
For the b-12, i'd personally take a b-complex instead and definitely take it at a differnt time then taking the multi as it already has a b-complex(which has b-12) and only so much can be absorbed at one time.

B-12 often isn't particularly well-absorbed orally. That's why he's taking it as a sublingual - to bypass digestion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

The vitamin C should also be split up throughout the day for the same reasons as the B.

Although if you're on certain medications, such as synthroid, you want to take it separated a few hours from when you take vitamin C.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

As far as the ephedrine goes, I simply recommend you don't take it.

Why not? Ephedrine caffeine is an excellent cutter.

suprfast · 11-01-2009, 01:46 AM

Thanks built. You teachings have done me well so far. Do you think i need to add/subtract anything. Interested more with the adding, if there is anything critical that would help. Ecstasy, Viagra..
kris

**Built** · 11-01-2009, 01:50 AM

Viagra does a stiffie good. ™

What to add... hmmmm... if your multi has a little vitamin E it'll help you metabolize the fish oil. Perhaps selenium and vitamin D. Also if you find it doesn't give you intolerably weird dreams, melatonin's a good one. I take 9mg at bedtime. Antioxidant and I seem to recall it having some antiestrogen effects.

PushAndPull · 11-01-2009, 09:29 AM

I've read and it's recommended that for maximum absorption fish oil doses should be split up. I've tried taking more than one at a time and never noticed a difference, then again I never notice anything from the fish oil unless I take alot, then I get tons of gas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

B-12 often isn't particularly well-absorbed orally. That's why he's taking it as a sublingual - to bypass digestion.

Although if you're on certain medications, such as synthroid, you want to take it separated a few hours from when you take vitamin C.

Vitamin C and B's are water soluble so for the most part you body takes what it needs and then you pee out the rest. So later on in the day you could still not be at optimum levels, taking it throughout the day solves this problem. Overloading at one time only insures more colorful pee.

Why not? Ephedrine caffeine is an excellent cutter.

Ephedrine is addictive.

suprfast · 11-01-2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

I've read and it's recommended that for maximum absorption fish oil doses should be split up. I've tried taking more than one at a time and never noticed a difference, then again I never notice anything from the fish oil unless I take alot, then I get tons of gas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

B-12 often isn't particularly well-absorbed orally. That's why he's taking it as a sublingual - to bypass digestion.

Although if you're on certain medications, such as synthroid, you want to take it separated a few hours from when you take vitamin C.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

Vitamin C and B's are water soluble so for the most part you body takes what it needs and then you pee out the rest. So later on in the day you could still not be at optimum levels, taking it throughout the day solves this problem. Overloading at one time only insures more colorful pee.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Why not? Ephedrine caffeine is an excellent cutter.

Ephedrine is addictive.

I cant agree with that last statement. I was on if for six weeks straight then took a week off when i ran out, and cycled it off. Not once did i feel myself NEEDING it. If anything is addictive i would say its caffeine. NOW WHERE IS MY COFFEE.

For the splitting up doses, i have to way the benefits of not doing it. If i take half now and save the rest for later there is a 45.324% chance i wont take it(crazy mathematicians

). Once i wake up i start playing DAD, taking kids to school, getting myself to school, picking kids up from school. I would forget, put it off.

Built, my multivitamin from vitamin shoppe has 333% or 133IU of vitamin E(im almost out of this one).
In about two weeks i will start using the costco multi which has 200% of 60IU of vitamin E. Are these enough, or should i pick up a separate vitamin E.
Does melatonin help with sleep. Ive never been able to just lay down and just fall asleep. If this helps, ill invest in stock. I think i just mixed melatonin with valerian root.
Ill look into selenium and vitamin D too. Anything specific or will the costco size containers be fine.

thanks all
kris

PushAndPull · 11-01-2009, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

Ephedrine is addictive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by suprfast

I cant agree with that last statement. I was on if for six weeks straight then took a week off when i ran out, and cycled it off. Not once did i feel myself NEEDING it. If anything is addictive i would say its caffeine. NOW WHERE IS MY COFFEE.
kris

I would take a crazy guess and say you have been drinking coffee for longer than 6 weeks and don't cycle it. If you take ephedrine for a long time, then you will see a major energy crash when you stop taking it. This is because your body has become dependent on the ephedrine for your energy. That's why I don't recommend it.

**Built** · 11-01-2009, 02:11 PM

I've taken ephedrine for months at a time. No big deal at all when I've gone off - I just reduce the ephedrine while keeping the caffeine the same, then gradually reduce the caffeine. If you haven't noticed, caffeine is very addictive lol - not that there's any real problem with just saying on caffeine indefinitely.

PushAndPull, go to drumlib.com to read up some more on ephedrine. It is a very safe drug, and tremendously beneficial to many.

suprfast, you'll love melatonin. Take it when you're ready to go to bed - if you don't go straight to bed when it "takes" you, it'll wear off. Vitamin D I take 3000 IU daily of D3, and cheapy costco brand is fine. Your multi gives you plenty of vitamin E. I just try to get in around 100 IU of vitamin E, you don't need much, just some.

PushAndPull, please try to use quotes properly so we can see what you're responding to.

m11 · 11-01-2009, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

If you take ephedrine for a long time, then you will see a major energy crash when you stop taking it. This is because your body has become dependent on the ephedrine for your energy. That's why I don't recommend it.

Ephedrine does have the ability to become addictive due to its ability to increase dopamine transmission. However, at the doses recommended, addiction is extremely unlikely.

The bolded statement is simply incorrect. Ephedrine cannot be used (or converted) as an energy source.

suprfast · 11-01-2009, 03:10 PM

I actually started drinking coffee maybe once a week. Not a huge fan of hot drinks, but its getting SUPER COLD in california. I think today is like 70°

I have been taking caffeine pills for the same time as ephedirine, and never cycled off of it. I am ADDICTED to iced tea. I wont lie about that. I think the reason why i dont care too much about coffee is the sipping portion. I love to just gulp the liquid in front of me. Iced tea or water doesnt last long in front of me. I can easily drink a gallon of tea a day. I guess i should have said, NOW WHERE IS MY ICED TEA. The original statement i made was just to be a funny since coffee is something people cannot function without, i guess its kinda like porn

PushAndPull · 11-01-2009, 03:31 PM

[quote=Built;1933194]
PushAndPull, go blank to read up some more on ephedrine. It is a very safe drug, and tremendously beneficial to many.
QUOTE]

The longest I took ephedrine for was two years. Likewise my workout partner and wife also took it during the same period and became addicted. I highly doubt it is a safe drug, but I will give you this i've never had any harmful long term effects that I know of. On the other hand everyone I know that has taken it for an extended period of time has become addicted to it. No offense, I have a very hard time believing you when you say that, you cut back on taking the drug and felt no energy drop. But hey maybe you're different than me, and the people I know. Regardless, I would never recommend this drug to anyone.

m11 · 11-01-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

I highly doubt it is a safe drug

There are risks with any drug. At the typically recommend doses, the side effects are minimal. Because of it's mechanism of action, addiction is possible at high doses.

What were you dosing your wife's ephedrine at?

PushAndPull · 11-01-2009, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m11

What were you dosing your wife's ephedrine at?

All of us started with half a pill (12.5mg) we built up a tolerance to that and then went to 25mg (12.5mg twice a day) and right before we quit it was 50mg(25mg twice a day)

m11 · 11-01-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

All of us started with half a pill (12.5mg) we built up a tolerance to that and then went to 25mg (12.5mg twice a day) and right before we quit it was 50mg(25mg twice a day)

Holding that those were the doses and no other sympathomimetic drugs were involved, I wouldn't expect addiction to occur.

PushAndPull · 11-01-2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m11

Holding that those were the doses and no other sympathomimetic drugs were involved, I wouldn't expect addiction to occur.

It certainly did cause addiction in all of us at those doses with absolutely no other drugs involved besides caffeine at least i'm sure of that for my wife and I.
Now we're not talking about crack addiction -lol- but definitley became fatigued about an hour before the second dose and later on, once the second dose wore off. Became extermely tried if we didn't have any pills at all.
I definitly feel like I have more energy now after quiting or at least more constant energy, not up & down, and I just feel better overall.

m11 · 11-01-2009, 05:45 PM

Are we entirely ruling out a placebo effect?

PushAndPull · 11-01-2009, 06:23 PM

Yeah, I definitely am. No more jitters, crashes or otherwise crappy effects of ephedrine experienced by any of us anymore.

**Built** · 11-01-2009, 07:01 PM

You weren't taking very much. I get the 8mg tabs that are legal and OTC here in Canada, and stack them with caffeine tabs, starting with 8mg E with 200mg C three times a day, then five, then I up the dose of E to 16mg - if you do the math, this is a gram of caffeine and 80mg ephedrine daily.

I know why I stand behind my statement of ephedrine's safety record - peer-reviewed pubmed articles where EC stack was tested on the obese, including obese children.

My feeling is that the lethargy of which many complain is due to withdrawal from caffeine, not from ephedrine.

PushAndPull, you seem like a thoughtful soul. I'll give you some food for thought:

Aug 2002: Dulloo's Editorial On Herbal Ephedrine/Caffeine

Quote:

Originally Posted by drumlib

The International Journal of Obesity recently published the results of a six-month study of herbal thermogenic supplements. If you're familiar with the medical research, you will not be surprised to learn that the study found herbal ephedra/caffeine "promoted body weight and body fat reduction and improved blood lipids without significant adverse events" (1).

"without significant adverse events"

I just thought I would repeat that for truth-deprived newbies whose only familiarity with thermogenic supplements comes from the mainstream media. smiley.gif (125 bytes)

I will address this study in a future post. For now, I want to take a look at the accompanying editorial, since it was written by one of my favorite obesity scientists. Dulloo starts off by explaining why conventional obesity treatments fail and why ephedrine/caffeine is necessary:

"The bottom line is that in response to food deprivation, the drive to eat increases and the metabolism slows down, thereby counteracting the efficacy of dieting. Pharmacotherapy aimed at dampening these compensatory mechanisms is therefore an appealing adjuvant to assist dietary approaches" (2-NA).

Dulloo also pondered the discrepancy between the anecdotal adverse effects associated with thermogenic supplements and the excellent safety record in Scandinavian countries where synthetic ephedrine/caffeine is a prescription obesity drug (trade name: Letigen).

<snip>

Dulloo closes the editorial stating that the Danish experience, where ephedrine/caffeine is a prescription obesity drug called Letigen, shows that it is "a viable and cost-effective approach to treat obesity" and he calls on the FDA to consider adopting a Danish-type system where doctors regularly prescribe ephedrine/caffeine for obesity:

"Based upon the Danish experience, the FDA might consider that the licensing under prescription of synthetic mixtures of ephedrine and caffeine could offer a viable and cost-effective approach to treat obesity and that large clinical trials with this drug combination are both necessary and ethically justified" (2-NA).

suprfast · 11-01-2009, 07:23 PM

Im so pissed. I just drove 30 miles to the nearest vitamin shoppe(i know i should have called) for ON Creatine and it wasnt there, but it was supposed to be in stock. They dont even carry it there.

Oh well, online ordering is cheaper.
Bodybuilding.com - Optimum Micronized Creatine Powder - Minimum 99.9% Pure On sale now!
Bodybuilding.com - Optimum Melatonin - Supports Sleep!* On sale now!

Ill pick up selenium and vitamin D locally.

Do those two options for those prices sound good? S/H is 5.99 so its still cheaper than vitamin shoppe.
kris

PushAndPull · 11-01-2009, 10:08 PM

Built

It's an interesting article.
Yet i'm sorry to say that I still think ephedrine is addictive and in the long run you will have more energy naturally than you would by taking it. I don't think it's as dangerous as American media protrays it though. I seem to be fine after taking it for a couple of years...
As far as kids go, I don't think any kids should be given ephedrine for being obese. I think proper diet and exercise is the answer. Regardless if your metabolism slows down you can still lose weight, it just might hurt a little more,but sometimes ya gotta tuff it out. Just my opinion of course.

PushAndPull · 11-01-2009, 10:14 PM

suprfast

Those are good deals on the creatine.
I don't use melatonin so I don't know if it's a good deal.
Even with the shipping cost, the creatine alone is worth it compared to buying it from a store.

suprfast · 11-01-2009, 11:14 PM

It comes out to just below even buying from bb.com.

I actually just looked up at massnutrition and the product was cheaper but the s/h would have made the total more expensive. I feel bad, because i would have rather supported a local IM sponsor, but i had already placed the order.

Im sorry MassNutrition.

**Built** · 11-02-2009, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

Built

It's an interesting article.
Yet i'm sorry to say that I still think ephedrine is addictive and in the long run you will have more energy naturally than you would by taking it.

I can't honestly say I've gotten that much of a kick from ephedrine - I think for most folks, the "buzz" comes from the caffeine. I've taken it for appetite suppression though, and stacked with caffeine it works fairly well for that purpose. Nice preworkout, too, really clears your breathing; it is, after all, a decongestant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

I don't think it's as dangerous as American media protrays it though. I seem to be fine after taking it for a couple of years...
As far as kids go, I don't think any kids should be given ephedrine for being obese. I think proper diet and exercise is the answer.

I can't see how EC could supplant diet and exercise. Did you think I meant "here, kid, take these magic beans and get skinny!"?

Being obese is a health risk. Treatments that are well-tolerated and help achieve the objective of reducing or eliminating this risk are reasonable to consider, given the alternatives. But really, that's a moot point. My assertion wasn't that this is the desired course of action, but that EC is such a safe anti-obesity drug, it can and has been used to treat children.

Safety and efficacy of treatment with an ephedrine... [Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2000] - PubMed result
Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2000 Dec;24(12):1573-8.
Safety and efficacy of treatment with an ephedrine/caffeine mixture. The first double-blind placebo-controlled pilot study in adolescents.

Molnár D, Török K, Erhardt E, Jeges S.

Department of Paediatrics, University of Pécs, Hungary. dmolnar@apacs.pote.hu

OBJECTIVE: The present study was performed to investigate the efficacy and safety of a caffeine/ephedrine (CE) mixture in obese adolescents.

SUBJECTS: Thirty-two (m/f = 16/16) obese children were included into the study. They were treated by diet (calculated daily energy requirement minus 500 kcal) and either CE or placebo (PL) for 20 weeks in a randomized double-blind placebo-controlled trial. Those weighing less than 80 kg took one tablet three times (100 mg/10 mg), whereas those weighing more than 80 kg took two tablets three times per day. There were three dropouts (girls) from the PL group. The age, weight body mass index (BMI) values (mean (range)) of the PL and CE groups were 16.0 (14.3-17.6) and 16.0 (14.2-17.7) y, 103.0 (77.2-126.4) and 104.8 (69.8-150.2) kg, 35.2 (28.3-42.3) and 36.5 (31.3-51.8) kg/m2, respectively.

RESULTS: The decrease in relative body weight, BMI and body fat (measured by bioelectric impedance) was significantly (P < 0.05) greater in the CE group (mean +/- s.d.; 14.4 +/- 10.5%, 2.9 +/- 1.9 kg/m2, 6.6 +/- 6.0 kg) than in the PL group (2.2 +/- 5.8%, 0.5 +/- 1.6 kg/m2, 0.5 +/- 2.7 kg). Relative body weight decreased by more than 5% in 81% of the CE group, out only in 31% of the PL group. Adverse events were negligible and did not differ between the CE and PL groups. Withdrawal symptoms were mild, transient and their frequency and severity were not different between the placebo and active groups.

CONCLUSION: According to the present pilot study, CE can be a safe and effective compound for the treatment of obesity in adolescents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PushAndPull

Regardless if your metabolism slows down you can still lose weight, it just might hurt a little more,but sometimes ya gotta tuff it out. Just my opinion of course.

You ever been fat, PushAndPull? I don't mean "post-bulking season juicy" but truly obese?

suprfast · 11-02-2009, 12:25 AM

built,
since we are still on EC, a quick question if you dont mind.

I know the ratio is roughly 10:1
I have the 25E to 200C. If i take this first thing in the morning then grab a cup of Joe, will i have any issues? Is the main key to have adequate C for the E and going over on the C is just extra BUZZING in the gym?

10-31-2009, 06:51 PM	#1
suprfast Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Merced, ca Posts: 387	Too many pills?? I feel like a druggie pill popper every morning. Am i taking too much, or does it not matter. Popping pills(in terms of real vitamins/minerals/etc) is easy so i dont mind if i needed to "pop" more to make sure i have all my bases covered Currently my pill jar daily includes: 2 x daily vitamin 8 x fish oil (total of 3000mg/3g of EPA/DHA) 1 x 200mg Caffeine(stay awake/no doze) 1 x bronkaid (25mg ephedrine sulfate, with a chases of 400mg of Guaifenesin) 1 x B12(sublingual, only one i dont swallow[let the jokes begin]) 4 x vitamin c (2g total), also has some wide rose hips and citrus bioflavonoids. whatever these are. Now that you see my medicine cabinet, am i taking too much stuff? just fine? anything you recommend i add/delete? Im open to criticism. I take everything in about 10 seconds first thing in the morning. I also take creatine, but thats aside from all this morning remedy stuff. Kris 5'8" 207 lbs 225lbs(6.8.09)/207lbs(10.22.09) looking for 200lbs in 25 weeks(a pound a week) Exercise Examples

10-31-2009, 07:35 PM	#3
suprfast Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Merced, ca Posts: 387	Sure they are. all of them actually. vitamin world multi vitamins recommend 2 naturals fish oil is 1200mg per pill(but only 375mg of dha/epa per pill so 8x375=3000) caffeine and ephedrine combo is 10:1ratio(close enough) b12 is one a day vitamin C is 1-4 daily(i chose to go with 4) Im within the daily, im just wondering if there is anything else i should add to cover my bases or if im covering too many bases at the same time. kris 5'8" 207 lbs 225lbs(6.8.09)/207lbs(10.22.09) looking for 200lbs in 25 weeks(a pound a week) Exercise Examples

10-31-2009, 08:54 PM	#5
m11 www.liftstrong.com Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: FL Posts: 857	It all looks fine. Getting Started by Built LG Sciences Board Representative These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, do not constitute medical advice, and are not official or authorized comments by LG Sciences, LLC.

10-31-2009, 10:55 PM	#7
suprfast Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Merced, ca Posts: 387	I didnt think i was too far fetched. I get weird eyes when people see my medicine case, they figure i have an incurable disease or something. Id like to split it up, but id forget to take it. First thing in the morning is easy. I can stomach anything, now where are the habaneros. kris 5'8" 207 lbs 225lbs(6.8.09)/207lbs(10.22.09) looking for 200lbs in 25 weeks(a pound a week) Exercise Examples

11-01-2009, 01:46 AM	#9
suprfast Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Merced, ca Posts: 387	Thanks built. You teachings have done me well so far. Do you think i need to add/subtract anything. Interested more with the adding, if there is anything critical that would help. Ecstasy, Viagra.. kris 5'8" 207 lbs 225lbs(6.8.09)/207lbs(10.22.09) looking for 200lbs in 25 weeks(a pound a week) Exercise Examples

10-31-2009, 07:02 PM	#2
PushAndPull Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: California(San Diego) Posts: 57	I take it these are not the recommended doses?

10-31-2009, 08:20 PM	#4
PushAndPull Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: California(San Diego) Posts: 57	Let start with the multi. If it says take two then I would. As far as the fish oil goes, if you can stomach it, then I see no harm in it. I personally only can stomach three a day. Regardless of the amount you are taking you should split them up throughout the day, i'm surprised it doesn't say to do so. For the b-12, i'd personally take a b-complex instead and definitely take it at a differnt time then taking the multi as it already has a b-complex(which has b-12) and only so much can be absorbed at one time. The vitamin C should also be split up throughout the day for the same reasons as the B. As far as the ephedrine goes, I simply recommend you don't take it.

10-31-2009, 10:23 PM	#6
PushAndPull Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: California(San Diego) Posts: 57	Glucosamine,Chondroitin, & MSM would also be a worthy addition to your pillfest-lol-

11-01-2009, 01:50 AM	#10
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,113	Viagra does a stiffie good. ™ What to add... hmmmm... if your multi has a little vitamin E it'll help you metabolize the fish oil. Perhaps selenium and vitamin D. Also if you find it doesn't give you intolerably weird dreams, melatonin's a good one. I take 9mg at bedtime. Antioxidant and I seem to recall it having some antiestrogen effects. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

11-01-2009, 02:11 PM	#14
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,113	I've taken ephedrine for months at a time. No big deal at all when I've gone off - I just reduce the ephedrine while keeping the caffeine the same, then gradually reduce the caffeine. If you haven't noticed, caffeine is very addictive lol - not that there's any real problem with just saying on caffeine indefinitely. PushAndPull, go to drumlib.com to read up some more on ephedrine. It is a very safe drug, and tremendously beneficial to many. suprfast, you'll love melatonin. Take it when you're ready to go to bed - if you don't go straight to bed when it "takes" you, it'll wear off. Vitamin D I take 3000 IU daily of D3, and cheapy costco brand is fine. Your multi gives you plenty of vitamin E. I just try to get in around 100 IU of vitamin E, you don't need much, just some. PushAndPull, please try to use quotes properly so we can see what you're responding to. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

11-01-2009, 03:10 PM	#16
suprfast Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Merced, ca Posts: 387	I actually started drinking coffee maybe once a week. Not a huge fan of hot drinks, but its getting SUPER COLD in california. I think today is like 70° I have been taking caffeine pills for the same time as ephedirine, and never cycled off of it. I am ADDICTED to iced tea. I wont lie about that. I think the reason why i dont care too much about coffee is the sipping portion. I love to just gulp the liquid in front of me. Iced tea or water doesnt last long in front of me. I can easily drink a gallon of tea a day. I guess i should have said, NOW WHERE IS MY ICED TEA. The original statement i made was just to be a funny since coffee is something people cannot function without, i guess its kinda like porn 5'8" 207 lbs 225lbs(6.8.09)/207lbs(10.22.09) looking for 200lbs in 25 weeks(a pound a week) Exercise Examples

11-01-2009, 03:31 PM	#17
PushAndPull Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: California(San Diego) Posts: 57	[quote=Built;1933194] PushAndPull, go blank to read up some more on ephedrine. It is a very safe drug, and tremendously beneficial to many. QUOTE] The longest I took ephedrine for was two years. Likewise my workout partner and wife also took it during the same period and became addicted. I highly doubt it is a safe drug, but I will give you this i've never had any harmful long term effects that I know of. On the other hand everyone I know that has taken it for an extended period of time has become addicted to it. No offense, I have a very hard time believing you when you say that, you cut back on taking the drug and felt no energy drop. But hey maybe you're different than me, and the people I know. Regardless, I would never recommend this drug to anyone.

11-01-2009, 05:45 PM	#22
m11 www.liftstrong.com Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: FL Posts: 857	Are we entirely ruling out a placebo effect? Getting Started by Built LG Sciences Board Representative These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, do not constitute medical advice, and are not official or authorized comments by LG Sciences, LLC.

11-01-2009, 06:23 PM	#23
PushAndPull Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: California(San Diego) Posts: 57	Yeah, I definitely am. No more jitters, crashes or otherwise crappy effects of ephedrine experienced by any of us anymore.

11-01-2009, 07:23 PM	#25
suprfast Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Merced, ca Posts: 387	Im so pissed. I just drove 30 miles to the nearest vitamin shoppe(i know i should have called) for ON Creatine and it wasnt there, but it was supposed to be in stock. They dont even carry it there. Oh well, online ordering is cheaper. Bodybuilding.com - Optimum Micronized Creatine Powder - Minimum 99.9% Pure On sale now! Bodybuilding.com - Optimum Melatonin - Supports Sleep!* On sale now! Ill pick up selenium and vitamin D locally. Do those two options for those prices sound good? S/H is 5.99 so its still cheaper than vitamin shoppe. kris 5'8" 207 lbs 225lbs(6.8.09)/207lbs(10.22.09) looking for 200lbs in 25 weeks(a pound a week) Exercise Examples

11-01-2009, 10:08 PM	#26
PushAndPull Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: California(San Diego) Posts: 57	Built It's an interesting article. Yet i'm sorry to say that I still think ephedrine is addictive and in the long run you will have more energy naturally than you would by taking it. I don't think it's as dangerous as American media protrays it though. I seem to be fine after taking it for a couple of years... As far as kids go, I don't think any kids should be given ephedrine for being obese. I think proper diet and exercise is the answer. Regardless if your metabolism slows down you can still lose weight, it just might hurt a little more,but sometimes ya gotta tuff it out. Just my opinion of course.

11-01-2009, 10:14 PM	#27
PushAndPull Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: California(San Diego) Posts: 57	suprfast Those are good deals on the creatine. I don't use melatonin so I don't know if it's a good deal. Even with the shipping cost, the creatine alone is worth it compared to buying it from a store.

11-01-2009, 11:14 PM	#28
suprfast Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Merced, ca Posts: 387	It comes out to just below even buying from bb.com. I actually just looked up at massnutrition and the product was cheaper but the s/h would have made the total more expensive. I feel bad, because i would have rather supported a local IM sponsor, but i had already placed the order. Im sorry MassNutrition. 5'8" 207 lbs 225lbs(6.8.09)/207lbs(10.22.09) looking for 200lbs in 25 weeks(a pound a week) Exercise Examples

11-02-2009, 12:25 AM	#30
suprfast Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Merced, ca Posts: 387	built, since we are still on EC, a quick question if you dont mind. I know the ratio is roughly 10:1 I have the 25E to 200C. If i take this first thing in the morning then grab a cup of Joe, will i have any issues? Is the main key to have adequate C for the E and going over on the C is just extra BUZZING in the gym? 5'8" 207 lbs 225lbs(6.8.09)/207lbs(10.22.09) looking for 200lbs in 25 weeks(a pound a week) Exercise Examples

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