Thread: How do CLA and Amino 2222 function together?

CLA from supplements have shown to have carcinogenic effects

CLA from meats, which has a different molecular makeup has shown to be beneficial to muscular growth, improves insulin sensitivity in diabetics, and decreases subcutaneous fat storage. aswell as aiding in MANY other body functions including digestion, cardio respiratory health and joint health

however ingesting a significant enough amount requires substitution of free range beef for generic, as well as vegetarian fed, antibiotic free eggs, and grass fed dairy products

it can get expensive, but when executed correctly the effects of these kinds of diets are
well
"anabolic" to say the least


I cannot answer your question
but i will say, not to over analyze things.
consume REAL foods, not food products.
consume foods high in nutrients and vitamins, not vitamin products

you will have better results and you will live a healthier, fuller, more exciting life.

cla is a fatty acid, the other are amino acids. there really is no true synergy, they do different things.

oh and ben-dur, back up that carcinogenic statement with proof. i have never seen a study or a mention of cla being anything but anti-carcinogenic.

The reason I'm asking is because I'm going by a plan by Jon Benson and he's very specific about this.... there has to be some kind of function between those two. It's not that I don't trust him (Tom Venuto recommends him which is why I didn't hesitate to go by his plan) but he didn't describe it in the manual.

once again the subscribers of ironmag have thrown out the "show me proof" line

i didnt say it had been proven, all i did was say it has been shown to.

and then i followed it with a line, which should be very familiar to you all here. "eat real food, dnt over analyze things"

are you seriously going to argue that getting your micronutrients through real food sources, is less healthy than getting them through artificial supplementation?

if that is your argument i am truly baffled...

if you disagree with my generally accepted statement then YOU should be providing studies...

but sense you insist,

Possible adverse effects of CLA in humans

There are concerns that the use of CLA supplements by overweight people may tend to cause or to aggravate insulin resistance, which may increase their risk of developing diabetes.[8] Most supplements contain mixtures of two CLA isomers: the cis-9, trans-11 isomer (the predominant CLA isomer in milk and beef) as well as the trans-10, cis-12 (t10c12) isomer. It is the trans-10, cis-12 isomer that is linked to many adverse side effects. Research indicates that supplementation with t10c12 CLA dramatically increases rates of oxidative stress, to levels considerably higher than that observed in heavy smokers.[8] However, the evidence is controversial, and some studies using a mixture of c9t11 and t10c12 CLA showed no changes in insulin sensitivity.[31][32] Although researchers are still not sure of the long term health effects of consuming CLA from supplements, foods naturally enriched in CLA, such as beef and dairy, are a safe alternative.

In one study t10c12 CLA produced a 32% increase in biliary cholesterol concentration which increases the chance of gallstone formation.[33]

In 2006, a study by the US Department of Agriculture suggested that CLA can induce essential fatty acid redistribution in mice. Changes in docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) and arachidonic acid (AA) levels were observed in some organs. For instance, the t10,c12 CLA reduced the DHA content of heart tissue by 25%, while in the spleen, DHA content rose, and AA fell. DHA is an omega-3 fatty acid important to cardiovascular health and the dramatic reduction of DHA in heart tissue can have serious health consequences. In contrast, c9,t11 CLA did not alter DHA content in the heart, but did reduce spleen DHA slightly. [7] A study of CLA supplementation (equal amounts of c9,t11 and t10,c12) in hatchling chicks (2005) showed high mortality and low hatchability rates among CLA-supplemented groups, and also a decrease in brain DHA levels of CLA-treated chicks[1]. These studies raise the question of whether CLA may increase the risk of cardiovascular and inflammatory diseases, but it has yet to be established whether such changes occur in humans, and whether they are clinically relevant.

An Oil Mixture with Trans-10, Cis-12 Conjugated Linoleic Acid Increases Markers of Inflammation and in Vivo Lipid Peroxidation Compared with Cis-9, Trans-11 Conjugated Linoleic Acid in Postmenopausal Women -- Tholstrup et al. 138 (8): 1445 -- Journal

Originally Posted by Ben dur

once again the subscribers of ironmag have thrown out the "show me proof" line

i didnt say it had been proven, all i did was say it has been shown to.

and then i followed it with a line, which should be very familiar to you all here. "eat real food, dnt over analyze things"

are you seriously going to argue that getting your micronutrients through real food sources, is less healthy than getting them through artificial supplementation?

if that is your argument i am truly baffled...

if you disagree with my generally accepted statement then YOU should be providing studies...

but sense you insist,

Possible adverse effects of CLA in humans

There are concerns that the use of CLA supplements by overweight people may tend to cause or to aggravate insulin resistance, which may increase their risk of developing diabetes.[8] Most supplements contain mixtures of two CLA isomers: the cis-9, trans-11 isomer (the predominant CLA isomer in milk and beef) as well as the trans-10, cis-12 (t10c12) isomer. It is the trans-10, cis-12 isomer that is linked to many adverse side effects. Research indicates that supplementation with t10c12 CLA dramatically increases rates of oxidative stress, to levels considerably higher than that observed in heavy smokers.[8] However, the evidence is controversial, and some studies using a mixture of c9t11 and t10c12 CLA showed no changes in insulin sensitivity.[31][32] Although researchers are still not sure of the long term health effects of consuming CLA from supplements, foods naturally enriched in CLA, such as beef and dairy, are a safe alternative.

In one study t10c12 CLA produced a 32% increase in biliary cholesterol concentration which increases the chance of gallstone formation.[33]

In 2006, a study by the US Department of Agriculture suggested that CLA can induce essential fatty acid redistribution in mice. Changes in docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) and arachidonic acid (AA) levels were observed in some organs. For instance, the t10,c12 CLA reduced the DHA content of heart tissue by 25%, while in the spleen, DHA content rose, and AA fell. DHA is an omega-3 fatty acid important to cardiovascular health and the dramatic reduction of DHA in heart tissue can have serious health consequences. In contrast, c9,t11 CLA did not alter DHA content in the heart, but did reduce spleen DHA slightly. [7] A study of CLA supplementation (equal amounts of c9,t11 and t10,c12) in hatchling chicks (2005) showed high mortality and low hatchability rates among CLA-supplemented groups, and also a decrease in brain DHA levels of CLA-treated chicks[1]. These studies raise the question of whether CLA may increase the risk of cardiovascular and inflammatory diseases, but it has yet to be established whether such changes occur in humans, and whether they are clinically relevant.

forgive me for wanting some proof that a random guy on the internet claims that a well studied anti-carcinogen, is carcinogenic. the rest of the nonsense you are talking about is just that and has nothing to do with my request. all i asked for is some kind of proof to back your statement up, if that is too much for you, then i have no idea what to say as it seems completely reasonable to me.

and post the sources of where you copied that from so that i can read the studies. references with no sources mean nothing to me. to me it seems that the last two words are key, and that is where reading the actual studies is helpful.

wow... your really on the ball...

i posted the study an entire 24 hours before that post man...


now
let me correct myself

i said "carcinogenic"
which was a misunderstanding on my part

CLA in any isomer has not been shown to have carcinogenic effects

there are however adverse effects from certain isomers
particularly the ones used in supplament form

and once again

all i recomended was consuming MICRO NUTRIENTS through WHOLE FOOD SOURCES

this is widely accepted as the superior way of consuming the minerals, vitamins, and miscellaneous micro nutrients your body needs, or could use to function better

no proof necessary

my statement is widely accepted and practiced...

what is your problem? seriously, think about that. i asked you to back up a statement, that is all. you are going on this whole diatribe about whole food, blah, blah, blah. no one is arguing you about that. ill say it again, i simply asked you to back up a statement, one which you have just recanted. do me a favor, and read next time before attempting to spark an argument. ill help, here is my original statement...

"oh and ben-dur, back up that carcinogenic statement with proof. i have never seen a study or a mention of cla being anything but anti-carcinogenic."

where in there is a challenge worthy of the comebacks you have provided? where in there is a comment about whole foods or supplements? relax.

oh, and a little advice, hold the insults when you are not following along in the conversation.

Now come on, Ben dur, I'm sorry but nni was right to ask you for proof. I would have done so myself had he not posted his request.

There are two issues here - one was the claim of carcinogenicity, which you later acknowledged was misspoken, so thank you for that. You HAVE to expect people to react to a statement like what you actually said, however, yes? You said that a substance that is known to fight cancer was rather a CAUSE of cancer. You said it in error but WE didn't know you said it in error - we wanted to see this novel research, especially nni whose company sells CLA!

The other issue is "oh, there you go, wanting PROOF!"

Yep. You betcha. We want proof. I'll at least settle for "compelling evidence in humans".

I won't post on a board that DOESN'T demand this type of validation. If you're going to come out with a controversial opinion (yours sounded controversial before you admitted your had flubbed over the word "carcinogen"), you had better be prepared either to back it up with a relevant study, OR to state, clearly, that this is your opinion based on what you have seen personally but admit that you have no formal basis for your claim. For example: "The thought of taking megadoses of CLA or other micronutrients as separate supplements makes me nervous - I feel more comfortable just eating well." <- this is fine. Nothing wrong with that - it's your opinion, you've stated it's your opinion, and you've done so without being insulting.

Simple.

DS doesn't sell Cla. I'm not even a big believer in it, I just wanted to see where we got his information from.

sorry for being insulting if that is how i came across

i sincerely didnt mean to insult anyone

in my personal, non professional, opinion
a supplemental form of a substance (which is available through whole foods) that shows inflammatory properties in studies doesnt seem logical.

My personal suggestion would be to alter my diet to include foods more rich in Natural CLA rather than supplementing with it.

sorry i jumped to conclusions and spattered out an alarming, and false, statement

i have never heard of using CLA and Amino 2222 with hopes of a synergistic effect.

and i have personally never read of any studies pertaining to the combination of supplements

if you are asking, whether using the supplements, concurrently, for different reasons, not necessarily synthetically

well
there is not enough info at my resources to give you helpful answer.

you could consult a physician if you decide to use the supplement in combination if you are unsure as to the possible effects. i personally cannot give you any advice.

Thanks bud.

Originally Posted by Ben dur

you could consult a physician if you decide to use the supplement in combination if you are unsure as to the possible effects. i personally cannot give you any advice.

and you seriously think a physician could answer those questions?