cornfed

I was just cleanin' my garage the other day and I found a long lost friend!!! I found a coupla' bottles of Syntrax Lipokinetix just lyin there!!!! FDA, kiss my azz, cause banned supps are gr8! Just thought I would share. Here's the profile:

25mg Norephedrine HCL
3mg Yohimbine HCL
100mg Cafeine
100mcg Diiodothyronine (lab derived, not herbal)
100mg Sodium Usinate

toss in a Vivarin/Nodoz and a reg strength asprin and viola, Fatburner Hell

Peace

- "If I ever run into Dave Grohl, I'm gonna kick his fuqqin' ass... because he sucks and he wrote this cheese-dick song for Ozzy that I have to fuqqin' play on and I'll never forgive him for that. Foo Fighters is a fuqqin' candy-ass girl band but you've got that mother-fuqqer submitting songs [for the album], and those douchebags from the Offspring, too."
"...Dave Grohl? Fuq Dave Grohl! ...you're getting this guy to write songs for Ozzy? Just because he played drums for fuqqing Sh!tvana?"
--- Zakk Wylde ---
---Dimebag Darrel RIP---

david

Awesome! You should share them!

Robboe

Very potent stack.

I have some usnic acid dotting around my bedroom somewhere.

(In case anyone is unsure, sodium usinate is the salt of usnic acid).

Being held down by The Man

Prince

LMAO!

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Dr. Pain

You found Lipokinetix, and it will kick your ass! You won't sleep at a certain dosage and soak your bed from sweat!

My up-coming article actually discusses T2 (Diiodothyronine) and briefly Usnic acid!

There is a dosing protocol to deter fucking up your thyroid that I would discuss with you in a PM if you need it! I DO NOT recommend this Product!

david

Wow, this sound's like some powerful stuff. I thought it was your above average ECA stack with a few other ingredients. It was sold over the counter with all other supplemements?

I will definitely await for that article you come out with DP, please let us know or PM me if you can. I assume this product is not available black market either?!?! (Not that I want any)

Dr. Pain

No, it's gone...and it's PPA not ephedrine. Still available (not manufactured anymore, but available for sale while supplies last (see MRM's MBX), The T2 (Biotest) and Usnic Acid (I'm not telling....research ATP Uncoupling and Oxidative Phosphoralytion ), are available separately!

DP

Robboe

Are you saying PPA is no longer manufactured?

It would be interesting using nicotine during a UA/SU cycle to see if you can calm the raging appetite that usually results.

The dopamine (i'll say stimulation for want of a better word) would also prove interesting to see how elevating thermogenesis would be.


I'd also like to know more on bromocriptine with potential for using. I'd buy Lyle's e-book, but i'm holding out to see if it comes out in hard copy form.

Being held down by The Man

Dr. Pain

Yes, it's gone in the US, banned, Cease and Desist on manufacturing and importation!


DP

sawheet

You guys ae hardcore man!! I never even heard of any of that shit. The only f/b I have ever tried was epedra ( the luquid stuff) and stuff like ripped fuel. Anybody remember up your gas , now I am aging myself!!

Climb high, climb far; your goal the sky, your aim, the stars

david

And they still sell Up your gas in some places too!

Did that stuff ever work for you??

gopro

Hell yes, that is quite a find!!!! Lipo was the best fat burner I EVER used!!! Had to make sure to take both creatine and ribose or strength in the gym would suffer. Always felt like complete crap on it, but man did it work!

Closest stuff to DNP a "natural" BBer could take...at least while it was available...hmmmm...maybe I should look through my closet!!

Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines.

VPX Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep

www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau!

Personal Training
Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching.
Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

Robboe

Why so, may i ask?

It was a great appetite suppressant, so i've heard.

Being held down by The Man

Dr. Pain

Killed a few older people, few more had strokes, you know.....the usual. Maybe a little pressure from the Pharmaceutical Companies!


DP

Robboe

Wow. I did not know that.

Then again, tobacco, alcohol and McDonald's seem to have killed more and yet they're still available to all.

How did it cause a stroke, do you know?

Being held down by The Man

Prince

yeah, but there is no way to truely prove that tobacco and fast food kill people.

to do this this you would need a controlled study.

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CHECK OUT THIS NEW 6-PACK-ABS PROGRAM!

Robboe

Yeah, that's why i said "seem".

Being held down by The Man

Dr. Pain

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...=Google+Search

DP

Robboe

Thank you.

Being held down by The Man

Dr. Pain

Your Welcome!

DP

Robboe

You know much about D1 and D2 receptor activation via certain drugs and stimulants?

Being held down by The Man

Snake_Eyes

The stuff I've seen on dopaminergic agonists seems very promising, though I've yet to buy Lyle's book either.

Bromo isn't terribly expensive from the looks of things either.

Usnic acid I wouldn't mess with.

Tank316

whats Lyle's book called. sounds like an interesting read.

P/RR/Sh Warrior.
Epic's new man beast.

Robboe

Tank:

go to www.qfac.com

It's on there.

Called Bromocriptine - and old drug with new uses, or something.

Being held down by The Man

Training God

In my next stage when I start to lose some bodyflab I'll be using some Bromo. This will be in Febuary 2003.

Prince

Excerpt From Lyle McDonald's new book "Bromocriptine"

Chapter 1: Defining the Problem

I always seem to start out these projects with a chapter on defining the problem. I'm not entirely sure if it's for the reader's benefit or my own. Either way it serves the same purpose. I try to solve body problems by first defining what those problems are, then figuring out what's causing the problems, and finally seeing if they can be fixed in any effective fashion. This booklet will follow that pattern. So let's define the problem very succinctly: Your body hates you. Yeah, I said this in the foreword but it bears repeating. It's become one of my more common catch-phrases and I am quite serious about it. Actually, that sentence has it backwards. Your body loves you and wants to keep you alive; what it thinks is the right thing to do to keep you alive is generally contrary to your goals of less weight/fat and more muscle. Let me shorten the problem even more: dieting sucks. That's the real issue and topic of this book. Anyone who's tried to lose weight/fat (there is a difference) and failed, knows this to be true. Gaining weight is pretty easy for most folks, just eat and enjoy. Losing it is the real hassle. Sure, a genetically lucky few can do it without much effort but they aren't the ones reading this book. There are good biological reasons for this discrepancy that you'll learn about in the next chapter.I'm fascinated with dieting and fat loss. I have been since the start of my career. It's the psychological profile that comes along with being a former fat kid. I've done/read most of the diets out there, tried all of the supplements, even a couple of the drugs. All this was in the quest to be lean and stay there. "Why?", you ask. I'll be honest: I want to fix myself. It's the same reason that nutcases become psychologists and fat girls become dietitians. They want to fix themselves, too. It's a common affliction. My friend Bryan Haycock, who has always wanted to be huge, has dedicated most of his time to studying muscular growth physiology for the same reason. He wants to be huge, so he researches muscle growth ; I want to be lean so I research fat loss. He and I make a very good team, especially when you throw in our endocrinology-obsessed buddy, Elzi Volk. The three of us have most of it covered.

Even at 10% bodyfat, I'm not happy. I know I'm lean, healthy, all of that. My doctor is thrilled and thinks I'm nuts to want to be leaner. So does my mom. They may not be wrong. But at 10% bodyfat, I'm simply not satisfied. The more athletic readers know what I'm talking about. Other readers may just think I'm nuts and obsessive. They may not be wrong either.

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Losing weight/keeping it off As most people (well, the honest ones anyhow) will tell you, losing weight or fat isn't fundamentally that hard. I'll tell you that too. No magic diet is needed and even fat folks can lose weight: just diet and exercise. It's keeping it off for any decent period of time that is the hard part. Even a 5 to 10 pound weight loss in obese folks improves health indices, but keeping even that off for more than a little while is pretty rare.

Folks who want to get really lean without using drugs have to contend with muscle loss, crashing hormones and other problems. This is a problem I've been looking at for years and there are few real or good solutions. Most are just stopgaps or kludge fixes, nothing very permanent beyond 'Deal with it'. Drugs are the exception; drugs work wonderfully and solve many, many problems.That's the problem, what's the goal?So, we ask, what are we trying to accomplish exactly, in solving the problem described above. For the average person, losing weight and keeping it off without hunger and recidivism would be the goal. Fairly simple, really, but most people still fail miserably at it. For the obsessed like me, the ultimate goal would be losing all the fat you want without your body screwing you on the way down. In both cases, it'd be ideal if you could lose fat weight with no muscle loss, no metabolic slowdown, no crashing hormones, and no runaway appetite. If you could stay leaner without much effort that would be great too. If you're an athlete, being able to gain muscle without getting (too) fat would also be ideal.

It's not as simple as it sounds and most solutions to date have been only marginally successful, except for drugs of course. Drugs work great because they allow us to step outside of our normal physiology. Most of the dietary supplement strategies are aimed at correcting part of this problem; most try to mimic drugs and some actually succeed. Did I mention that drugs work great? Prohormones, anti-catabolics, fat-burners, appetite suppressants, protein powder, etc. are all attempts to fix some part of the overall metabolically screwed up picture. As most know, they only work to a small degree.

Even the weight loss drugs introduced by the pharmaceutical industry have only been marginally successful. They are either appetite suppressants (such as Fen/Phen or Meridia) which stop working after a while (but see chapter 8 for a possible solution), thermogenics which have side effects, or compounds which impair fat absorption (such as Orlistat, and runaway diarrhea is the price you have to pay). A small weight loss occurs, maybe 5-10%, but that's about it. They are all ultimately sort of kludge fixes, which aren't addressing the real problem (hint: it's in the brain).

Drug-using bodybuilders/athletes don't have this problem, since they are replacing their body's normal hormones with drugs. Steroids, thyroid medication, injectable growth hormone, cortisol blockers, appetite suppressants, that's just a partial list of the chemical warfare that occurs in elite bodybuilding and athletics. Drugs allow those folks to do things that aren't 'normal' relative to human physiology. Drugs also make natural folks expect a lot more than is realistically possible; they wish they could pull off the magical body transformations without drugs, but they find out the hard way that it can't be done. Drugs can also come at a high cost: financial, legal, and possibly health-wise. This booklet is about fixing part of the problems. I don't claim to have the complete answer...yet. But as research builds up and we figure out what's causing the problem, we are getting closer to the answer. The drug bromocriptine, a very old drug with several uses totally unrelated to body composition, turns out to solve many of the problems that I talked about above. I'll present the data and mechanism soon. In addition, it's very safe at the doses needed, fairly inexpensive, legal, and not too hard to come by. So it meets my criteria for a good drug. Before you get the wrong idea, this booklet isn't only aimed at the psychos like me, who want to maintain single digit bodyfat year round without all of the associated problems. The data I'm going to present turn out to apply to dieters in general, because the mechanisms at the heart ofthe problem are the same.Losing 10 pounds and keeping it off long term is essentially the same as dieting to 'normal' bodyfat levels (11-18% in men, 21-28% in women) or getting even leaner. All three situations come with the same basic problems: hunger, metabolic slowdown, impaired fat burning, crashing hormones, all of which derail your efforts. The difference is merely one of degree: the person dieting to 'normal' isn't as badly off as someone dieting to 6% bodyfat. Since all of these problems ultimately stem from the same place (the brain, as it turns out) they end up having the same basic fix.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Defining the problem, part 1Ok, so the statement that dieting sucks doesn't really tell you much. Let's define the problem in a bit more detail. A quick look at the dieting literature shows an exceptionally poor rate of success. Depending on which data you believe, anywhere from 90% on up of dieters will gain back all of the lost weight within a few years. Some have even concluded that it's not worth attempting weight loss since nearly everyone fails.As I mentioned above, losing the weight/fat ultimately isn't the problem, keeping it off in the long-term is. Current research is focusing more on how to keep the weight off, since losing it isn't fundamentally that difficult. Eat less, exercise, weight usually comes off. Keeping it off long-term, there's the real problem, and it's where most people fail. There are many, many reasons for this of course, some physiological, some psychological. Changing long-term eating and behavior patterns is difficult, that's part of the psychology. And nobody really likes restriction even if it's self-imposed. Both cause anxiety which humans don't really like, so we revert to old habits. Physiologically, dieting and weight/fat loss cause a decrease in metabolic rate and energy/activity levels, along with a decrease in fat burning. Fat storage enzymes are increased as well, which means that the dieter's body is just waiting to start storing fat again. When (not if) the diet is broken, the pounds come back on, frequently with a little bit extra stored for good measure.The small percentage of dieters that do succeed long-term tend to show characteristic changes in things such as eating habits, exercise habits, regular self-monitoring to stay on the bandwagon and others. They make the changes and maintain them long term. They have to restrict calories to some degree for the rest of their lives to maintain the weight/fat loss. I suspect they're a little bit hungry and unhappy most of the time. Since nobody likes restriction or hunger, most people go back to old eating habits and gain all the weight back. An ideal solution would fix this problem.Defining the problem, part 2It's convenient for weight loss 'experts' to blame weight loss failures on willpower but that turns out to be a very simplistic (and not entirely correct) explanation. Quite literally, the brains of these individuals are the problem. Essentially, their brains 'want' that person to be fatter and are sending powerful appetite simulating signals to get those people to eat. That's on top of the other metabolic derangements, such as slowed metabolic rate and decreased fat burning, along with increased fat storage capacity, that occur.

Dieting athletes and bodybuilders have a slightly different set of problems although they turn out to be related in terms of the mechanism involved. Psychologically, the problems are less sinc