Ephedra getting attacked again.

Fade · 10-08-2002, 02:16 PM

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Sean Riggins was 16-year-old athlete in
exceptionally good condition, but on September 2 he was so sick that he
couldn't play in a big game with his Lincoln, Illinois, high school football
team.

Instead, he sat on the bench, suffering from headache and stomach pain, and later went home
to sleep. A doctor, the next day, said he had bronchitis and sent him home. But within a few
hours, Sean went into convulsions and stopped breathing. He died at a hospital of what doctors
said was a heart attack.

"When my son passed away of a heart attack, I had no idea what to think," Kevin Riggins
testified Tuesday at a Senate subcommittee hearing. "He didn't smoke or do marijuana or take
drugs."

But an autopsy showed that he did take Yellow Jackets, an herbal drug laced with the herb
ephedra, along with a kola nut extract which contains caffeine. The combination can cause
blood vessel constriction, a rapid heart beat, a sudden rise in blood pressure.

And that's what killed Sean Riggins, Logan County Illinois coroner Charles Fricke told the Senate
Subcommittee.

"The heart was racing so fast it could pump the blood," said Fricke. "It's our opinion that the
(heart attack) is consistent with the effects of ephedrine. No other problems were found."

Sean's death was not the first caused by ephedra, a dietary supplement that is sold at service
stations and convenience stores as an energy booster and weight control product, said Sen.
Dick Durbin, D-Ill. He said Food and Drug Administration reports link ephedra to 81 deaths and
1,400 incidents of heart attack, high blood pressure and stroke. How many deaths has alcohol cause? It's still for sale.

And, yet, said Durbin, the FDA still allows the herbal supplement to be sold.

"We have seen a reluctance on the part of this administration to act to protect American
consumers from this product and I just can't understand it," he said.

The FDA on Monday did stop imports of Yellow Jackets, e-mailing the Dutch operator of an
Internet site selling the pills that it is illegal to market dietary supplements as alternatives to
cocaine and other street drugs.

Ephedra is an herb that is legal to sell as a dietary supplement -- popular for weight loss and
body building. But Durbin and some critics have asked the FDA to ban all ephedra products.

One manufacturer, Metabolife International Inc. of San Diego, is now under investigation by the
Justice Department about claims by a company official that it had received no reports of
adverse health linked to its product.

Lanny Davis, a Washington attorney representing Metabolite, however, testified that many
reports of dangerous side effects from ephedra are based on "unverified telephone calls."

He said there have been 30 scientific studies showing that Metabolite's ephedra product "is
safe and effective" when used by adults as directed.

The Yellow Jackets issue is separate, focusing not on ephedra safety but on illegal marketing.

"There does not appear to be any legitimate use for this product," the FDA said in a warning
letter e-mailed to the Dutch operator of a Yellow Jackets Web site.

"Consumers should not purchase or use these or similar products available through the Internet
or elsewhere," FDA Acting Commissioner Lester Crawford said.

Riggins, in his testimony, said that students in Lincoln and in other small towns now can easily
buy ephedra-laced supplements, using them to stay awake, to get a "buzz" and to lose weight.

"You can buy them at service stations, $1.50 for three pills," said Riggins. "These kids don't
realize it is a harmful drug. This herbal substance killed my son and I am afraid it will happen
again."

Sean's mother, Debbie, said that "kids are the target" of manufacturers of Yellow Jackets and
other ephedra supplements.

"They do it to get hyper so they can stay awake," said Debbie Riggins. "They will take several at
a time to keep them wired all day."

She said the supplements are sold in flashy packages, stocked next to the cash register, and
kids have no problem buying them.

Ephedra products have been banned in Canada. The U.S. armed services have ordered
ephedra products removed from military base stores where they were once sold. The National
Collegiate Athletic Association banned use of the supplement by student athletes and now
conducts test each year to enforce that ban.

Dr. Ronald M. Davis of the American Medical Association said that based on reports of adverse
medical effects, his organization believes "the weight of available clinical evidence supports the
remove of dietary supplement products contain ephedrine alkaloids from the market."

Bill Jeffery of the Center for Science in the Public Interest said Canada has classified ephedra
as a "Class 1 health risk" and that it is "beyond dispute that ephedra has triggered heart attacks
and death."

Leslie · 10-08-2002, 02:19 PM

That is sad, but the one thing they never say is HOW MUCH the person took.....

Fade · 10-08-2002, 02:35 PM

I read an article about 7 years ago where a kid took 40 25mg tabs and died. Then the article attacked ephedrine. Hmmmm if I take forty Benadryl pills will I die? Probably.

Leslie · 10-08-2002, 02:49 PM

My point exactly. If these people are going to be stupid, then stupid things will happen. Its unfortunate, but what did they THINK was going to happen?

nikegurl · 10-08-2002, 03:03 PM

the "studies" are so hard to judge. one of the "ephedrine related deaths" happened when the person drove their car into a telephone pole. surely a terrible thing and i'm not trying to be insensitive....but i'm thinking the telephone pole was more the cause of death than the ephedrine found in their system.

(again - it never said how much so maybe that's the issue) the info is so poorly reported and documented....

Duncan · 10-08-2002, 03:08 PM

Ephedrine is the plague of the 21st century.

Anyone have a cigarette?

irontime · 10-08-2002, 03:16 PM

Stupid fricken kids.

I'm always hearing about idiots popping six pills, and you think they'd at least be smart enough to take an asparin with it to thin out the blood, but apparently that concept is too far out of reach.

**Mudge** · 10-08-2002, 03:24 PM

So true, you can legally buy alcohol, cigs etc, but if you do anything to try and get in shape its like a holy war is waged against you.

UNCLE SAM WANTS YOU FAT, DRUNK, AND LOADED WITH SMOKES

irontime · 10-08-2002, 03:27 PM

Instead of trying to ban it they would be helping a lot more if they would put out the dangers and have little warnings on bottles recomending an asparin with each dosage. That would stop the heart attacks.

Miss LeDix · 10-08-2002, 04:12 PM

Wow! And I thought that we should all lead a healthy lifestyle by eating well and exercising effectively. I had no idea that a harmful thing such as Ephedrine was the key to my success! I'm so informed now... I guess I'll go pop some pills!

Miss LeDix · 10-08-2002, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fade99
I read an article about 7 years ago where a kid took 40 25mg tabs and died. Then the article attacked ephedrine. Hmmmm if I take forty Benadryl pills will I die? Probably.

Fade, I do not think this is a good comparison. People will not take forty Benadryl. Benadryl does not come with all sort of promises like increased energy and weight loss. Yes, some people are gullible, but that does not mean that he is an idiot for taking the ephedrine. Like I said, I don't think your comparison has very much merit.

Dero · 10-08-2002, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Miss LeDix
Wow! And I thought that we should all lead a healthy lifestyle by eating well and exercising effectively. I had no idea that a harmful thing such as Ephedrine was the key to my success! I'm so informed now... I guess I'll go pop some pills!

Do I detect a certain sarcastic tonality in your post????
ML...Where have you been hiding?

butterfly · 10-08-2002, 04:46 PM

I have to disagree MissL...

The point was that you would NOT take 40 Benedryls so why is the idiot taking 40 ephedrine???

Only takes a little common sense.

Miss LeDix · 10-08-2002, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dero

Do I detect a certain sarcastic tonality in your post????
ML...Where have you been hiding?

Of course I was being sarcastic!

I've been busy these days. I try to make an appearance every now and then!

irontime · 10-08-2002, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by butterfly
Only takes a little common sense.

And that's where Miss L comes in

I have to disagree with you too Miss Dix, All supplements and pills can be harmful if overdosed, that's why there are warning's on bottles. If ephedrine is taken correctly (like once a day) then it can be very beneficial for bodybuilding, but if idiot kids are popping several at a time just for a high, then it's a big problem.

btw, if you are going to pop some ephy pills, take a caffeine and asparin with it, it does wonders

butterfly · 10-08-2002, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by irontime
btw, if you are going to pop some ephy pills, take a caffeine and asparin with it, it does wonders

That's the 3rd time you've said that in this thread... guess you want us to make sure we don't forget

Miss LeDix · 10-08-2002, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by butterfly
I have to disagree MissL...

The point was that you would NOT take 40 Benedryls so why is the idiot taking 40 ephedrine???

Only takes a little common sense.

A young, impressionable person may take more ephedrine than is considered safe. A young, impressionable person may be under lots of pressure to lose wieght, or run faster, or play better or whatever. A person would not take 40 Benadryl to increase it's effect. But I do believe that some people would go overboard with the ephedrine.

I don't like the stuff, I think it's dangerous.

butterfly · 10-08-2002, 04:53 PM

If there is one reason why Ephedrine should be banned is that it causes Ephydic

irontime · 10-08-2002, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by butterfly

That's the 3rd time you've said that in this thread... guess you want us to make sure we don't forget

3rd time I said what?

to take caffiene and asparin with it?

Well, just in case I didn't say it yet, take caffiene and asparin with it.

*sniff* this shows that you really do love me and pay attention to what I say

........or you are just waiting for me to screw up again and slam me

butterfly · 10-08-2002, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Miss LeDix

A young, impressionable person may take more ephedrine than is considered safe. A young, impressionable person may be under lots of pressure to lose wieght, or run faster, or play better or whatever. A person would not take 40 Benadryl to increase it's effect. But I do believe that some people would go overboard with the ephedrine.

I don't like the stuff, I think it's dangerous.

Kids also get addicted to couch syrup... they take dangerous amounts to increase the effects... should we ban cough syrup or try to educate our youth better???

I'm not crazy about ephedrine either... I just don't want the government to stick it's nose in even more of my business.

irontime · 10-08-2002, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by butterfly
If there is one reason why Ephedrine should be banned is that it causes Ephydic

Ya, I could never figure that out

you would think that something that makes your blood pump faster would be beneficial for it instead of taking away

Miss LeDix · 10-08-2002, 05:01 PM

I've never been one to debate, so I'll just be quiet now. You know my opinion now. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. My main point is that we should put some of the blame on the manufactures of this product, and maybe you should have to be 18 to buy it or something. I do believe something should be done.

http://www.ephedrine-ephedra.com/

butterfly · 10-08-2002, 05:04 PM

That's the great thing about America, MissL... I totally respect your right to believe and feel whatever you want so long as you return the jesture

Duncan · 10-08-2002, 05:06 PM

IT, the vasodilation which occurs with ephedrine products lowers the blood available for the big unit, ie.if you were to have a circulating system that is completely full with 3/8" tubing and then all of a sudden switch it to 5/8" tubing there would be unused volume in the tubing and thus, yur wang.

irontime · 10-08-2002, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by butterfly
That's the great thing about America, MissL... I totally respect your right to believe and feel whatever you want so long as you return the jesture

I, however, am Canadian. And I will use my right to trash you and make you feel incompetent.

Just buggin ya babe, we all have different opinions and that's a good thing, your's is wrong, but it's still a good thing

okay, i'll stop now.

10-08-2002, 02:16 PM	#1
Fade I'm the daddy Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 3,007 Photos: 5	Ephedra getting attacked again. WASHINGTON (AP) -- Sean Riggins was 16-year-old athlete in exceptionally good condition, but on September 2 he was so sick that he couldn't play in a big game with his Lincoln, Illinois, high school football team. Instead, he sat on the bench, suffering from headache and stomach pain, and later went home to sleep. A doctor, the next day, said he had bronchitis and sent him home. But within a few hours, Sean went into convulsions and stopped breathing. He died at a hospital of what doctors said was a heart attack. "When my son passed away of a heart attack, I had no idea what to think," Kevin Riggins testified Tuesday at a Senate subcommittee hearing. "He didn't smoke or do marijuana or take drugs." But an autopsy showed that he did take Yellow Jackets, an herbal drug laced with the herb ephedra, along with a kola nut extract which contains caffeine. The combination can cause blood vessel constriction, a rapid heart beat, a sudden rise in blood pressure. And that's what killed Sean Riggins, Logan County Illinois coroner Charles Fricke told the Senate Subcommittee. "The heart was racing so fast it could pump the blood," said Fricke. "It's our opinion that the (heart attack) is consistent with the effects of ephedrine. No other problems were found." Sean's death was not the first caused by ephedra, a dietary supplement that is sold at service stations and convenience stores as an energy booster and weight control product, said Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill. He said Food and Drug Administration reports link ephedra to 81 deaths and 1,400 incidents of heart attack, high blood pressure and stroke. How many deaths has alcohol cause? It's still for sale. And, yet, said Durbin, the FDA still allows the herbal supplement to be sold. "We have seen a reluctance on the part of this administration to act to protect American consumers from this product and I just can't understand it," he said. The FDA on Monday did stop imports of Yellow Jackets, e-mailing the Dutch operator of an Internet site selling the pills that it is illegal to market dietary supplements as alternatives to cocaine and other street drugs. Ephedra is an herb that is legal to sell as a dietary supplement -- popular for weight loss and body building. But Durbin and some critics have asked the FDA to ban all ephedra products. One manufacturer, Metabolife International Inc. of San Diego, is now under investigation by the Justice Department about claims by a company official that it had received no reports of adverse health linked to its product. Lanny Davis, a Washington attorney representing Metabolite, however, testified that many reports of dangerous side effects from ephedra are based on "unverified telephone calls." He said there have been 30 scientific studies showing that Metabolite's ephedra product "is safe and effective" when used by adults as directed. The Yellow Jackets issue is separate, focusing not on ephedra safety but on illegal marketing. "There does not appear to be any legitimate use for this product," the FDA said in a warning letter e-mailed to the Dutch operator of a Yellow Jackets Web site. "Consumers should not purchase or use these or similar products available through the Internet or elsewhere," FDA Acting Commissioner Lester Crawford said. Riggins, in his testimony, said that students in Lincoln and in other small towns now can easily buy ephedra-laced supplements, using them to stay awake, to get a "buzz" and to lose weight. "You can buy them at service stations, $1.50 for three pills," said Riggins. "These kids don't realize it is a harmful drug. This herbal substance killed my son and I am afraid it will happen again." Sean's mother, Debbie, said that "kids are the target" of manufacturers of Yellow Jackets and other ephedra supplements. "They do it to get hyper so they can stay awake," said Debbie Riggins. "They will take several at a time to keep them wired all day." She said the supplements are sold in flashy packages, stocked next to the cash register, and kids have no problem buying them. Ephedra products have been banned in Canada. The U.S. armed services have ordered ephedra products removed from military base stores where they were once sold. The National Collegiate Athletic Association banned use of the supplement by student athletes and now conducts test each year to enforce that ban. Dr. Ronald M. Davis of the American Medical Association said that based on reports of adverse medical effects, his organization believes "the weight of available clinical evidence supports the remove of dietary supplement products contain ephedrine alkaloids from the market." Bill Jeffery of the Center for Science in the Public Interest said Canada has classified ephedra as a "Class 1 health risk" and that it is "beyond dispute that ephedra has triggered heart attacks and death."

10-08-2002, 02:19 PM	#2
Leslie DOWNSIZING Elite Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jersey Girl Posts: 2,911 Photos: 11	That is sad, but the one thing they never say is HOW MUCH the person took.....
	Leslie My Journal My Sponsor:www.AvantLabs.com

10-08-2002, 02:49 PM	#4
Leslie DOWNSIZING Elite Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jersey Girl Posts: 2,911 Photos: 11	My point exactly. If these people are going to be stupid, then stupid things will happen. Its unfortunate, but what did they THINK was going to happen?
	Leslie My Journal My Sponsor:www.AvantLabs.com

10-08-2002, 03:03 PM	#5
nikegurl Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: LA, CA Posts: 5,635	the "studies" are so hard to judge. one of the "ephedrine related deaths" happened when the person drove their car into a telephone pole. surely a terrible thing and i'm not trying to be insensitive....but i'm thinking the telephone pole was more the cause of death than the ephedrine found in their system. (again - it never said how much so maybe that's the issue) the info is so poorly reported and documented....
	If you want to achieve things that others can't... You have to do things that others won't.

10-08-2002, 03:08 PM	#6
Duncan Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 372	Ephedrine is the plague of the 21st century. Anyone have a cigarette?
	Man on a mission!

10-08-2002, 02:35 PM	#3
Fade I'm the daddy Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 3,007 Photos: 5	I read an article about 7 years ago where a kid took 40 25mg tabs and died. Then the article attacked ephedrine. Hmmmm if I take forty Benadryl pills will I die? Probably.

10-08-2002, 03:16 PM	#7
irontime The Original Jackass Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: If not here, then on some porn site. Posts: 5,101 Photos: 1	Stupid fricken kids. I'm always hearing about idiots popping six pills, and you think they'd at least be smart enough to take an asparin with it to thin out the blood, but apparently that concept is too far out of reach.
	If god were suddenly condemned to live the life which he has inflicted on man, he would kill himself. - Alexander Dumas (1802 - 1870)

10-08-2002, 03:24 PM	#8
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,027 Photos: 1	So true, you can legally buy alcohol, cigs etc, but if you do anything to try and get in shape its like a holy war is waged against you. UNCLE SAM WANTS YOU FAT, DRUNK, AND LOADED WITH SMOKES
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

10-08-2002, 03:27 PM	#9
irontime The Original Jackass Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: If not here, then on some porn site. Posts: 5,101 Photos: 1	Instead of trying to ban it they would be helping a lot more if they would put out the dangers and have little warnings on bottles recomending an asparin with each dosage. That would stop the heart attacks.
	If god were suddenly condemned to live the life which he has inflicted on man, he would kill himself. - Alexander Dumas (1802 - 1870)

10-08-2002, 04:12 PM	#10
Miss LeDix Sassy Lady! Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: USA Posts: 1,754	Wow! And I thought that we should all lead a healthy lifestyle by eating well and exercising effectively. I had no idea that a harmful thing such as Ephedrine was the key to my success! I'm so informed now... I guess I'll go pop some pills!
	My little man! http://bellsouthpwp.net/l/a/lance911...otos/0718a.jpg

10-08-2002, 04:46 PM	#13
butterfly Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 11,526 Photos: 11	I have to disagree MissL... The point was that you would NOT take 40 Benedryls so why is the idiot taking 40 ephedrine??? Only takes a little common sense.
	~Ann We must teach our children to dream with their eyes open. -Harry Edwards

10-08-2002, 04:53 PM	#18
butterfly Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 11,526 Photos: 11	If there is one reason why Ephedrine should be banned is that it causes Ephydic
	~Ann We must teach our children to dream with their eyes open. -Harry Edwards

10-08-2002, 05:01 PM	#22
Miss LeDix Sassy Lady! Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: USA Posts: 1,754	I've never been one to debate, so I'll just be quiet now. You know my opinion now. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. My main point is that we should put some of the blame on the manufactures of this product, and maybe you should have to be 18 to buy it or something. I do believe something should be done. http://www.ephedrine-ephedra.com/
	My little man! http://bellsouthpwp.net/l/a/lance911...otos/0718a.jpg

10-08-2002, 05:04 PM	#23
butterfly Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 11,526 Photos: 11	That's the great thing about America, MissL... I totally respect your right to believe and feel whatever you want so long as you return the jesture
	~Ann We must teach our children to dream with their eyes open. -Harry Edwards

10-08-2002, 05:06 PM	#24
Duncan Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 372	IT, the vasodilation which occurs with ephedrine products lowers the blood available for the big unit, ie.if you were to have a circulating system that is completely full with 3/8" tubing and then all of a sudden switch it to 5/8" tubing there would be unused volume in the tubing and thus, yur wang.
	Man on a mission!