Thread: Protein shake. Is it neccessary?

A person buys a supplement because certian claims are made about it.
The person takes the supplement as directed and does not see the desired results.
Two possible outcomes here
1. The person stops pruchasing the product since it did not deliver on it's claims.
2. The person somehow rationalizes that the product is working and continues to purchase it.

You're a number two guy because:
You're asking a question that you should already know the answer too.
What sort of additional gains have you noticed or not noticed since you started taking the post shake?
Have you tried eating a meal instead to see if there is any difference in gains?
If everyone says to take it, will you? Even if it doesn't deliver on it's claims.
Maybe it's time to grow up and decide for yourself.

Originally Posted by Call of Ktulu

Do you need a protein shake after you workout? Is food just as good or milk just as good for a protein source after a workout? I'm asking because protein shakes are expensive after a while.

Only if you dont have time to cram a meal in.

Originally Posted by OrbitNutrition

Only if you dont have time to cram a meal in.

^^^^^ or if you just need a stripped down pure protein source because you are in a cutting and dont want the fats and/or sodium that usually go along with protein from whole foods. There are also liquid protein shots that cost about 2 bucks a serving which isnt too bad on a budget.

I figured it up the other day when compared gram to gram(of protein) Optimum Nutrition whey's cost is equivalent to chicken breast at approximately $3 per lb. Which is pretty cheap for chicken breast, sometimes you can find it for $2/lb. Also ON's whey is just a little over $.50 per serving (24g protein). IMO whey is still a cheap source of protein in addition to being convenient.

protein is protein , its not like its gonna make you grow jus by taking it . key word is supplement food is always better, but like the others have said when you can fit a meal in drink a shake. plus the ol lady would rather me buy protein powder because it keeps food cost down.

Originally Posted by Call of Ktulu

Do you need a protein shake after you workout? Is food just as good or milk just as good for a protein source after a workout? I'm asking because protein shakes are expensive after a while.

Chocolate Milk

Chocolate milk has been shown to be a good post workout beverage.

Chocolate Milk Gives Athletes Leg-up After Exercise, Says University of Texas at Austin Study | News

Kenny Croxdale

Originally Posted by Call of Ktulu

Do you need a protein shake after you workout? Is food just as good or milk just as good for a protein source after a workout? I'm asking because protein shakes are expensive after a while.

Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale

Chocolate Milk

Chocolate milk has been shown to be a good post workout beverage.

"Chocolate Milk Gives Athletes Leg-up After Exercise..."Chocolate Milk Gives Athletes Leg-up After Exercise, Says University of Texas at Austin Study | News

Kenny Croxdale

My protein shakes cost less than what chocolate milk does. And that is if I match grams of protein and grams of CHO.

But chocolate milk tastes delicious.

Here is the math.

Each 250ml glass of choc milk has about 9gs of protein and 28 grams of carbs. I get 4l of chock milk on sale for $4.50. That means I pay about 4.50 for 144g of protein and 448g of CHO.

I pay about $120 for 50lbs of protein mix (50% concentrate, 25% isolate 25% hydro). Lets call it 22.5 kg or 22500g. so about 0.54 cents a g. Thats about $0.77 for 144g of protein.

I pay $4 a kg for flavoured sugar. so that works out to be 0.4 cents a g. That is about $1.80 for 448g of CHO.


That means I pay 450 for 4l of choc milk or 2.57 for the same amount of protein and cho in supplement forum.

I do lose the fats, and other benefits milk has to offer, but enough studies have shown that pro + cho works great after workout. And heck at the price I pay I can afford to add an extra omega 3 pill into my diet and still come out ahead.

In no way am I reccomending avoiding whole foods, but my point is supplements are not that expensive when you buy smart (and break it down to the cost per gram compared to whole food) they can save you money and have their place in a healthy diet.

Originally Posted by pebble

My protein shakes cost less than what chocolate milk does. And that is if I match grams of protein and grams of CHO.

But chocolate milk tastes delicious.

Here is the math.

I pay about $120 for 50lbs of protein mix (50% concentrate, 25% isolate 25% hydro).

More Math

Like you I am a great shopper. However, I have yet to find proeint that cheap...$120 for 50 lbs.

$2.40 Per Pound

That means you protein is $2.40 per pound.

Hard To Believe

Where do you find it for $2.40 a pound (which would include tax and shipping)?

Kenny Croxdale

Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale

More Math

Like you I am a great shopper. However, I have yet to find proeint that cheap...$120 for 50 lbs.

$2.40 Per Pound

That means you protein is $2.40 per pound.

Hard To Believe

Where do you find it for $2.40 a pound (which would include tax and shipping)?

Kenny Croxdale

I buy bulk unflavoured. I get it from a local supplier. He buys it in bulk from trueprotein.com, I think. He gets a better price than they offer on their site because of how much he purchases. Last time I purchased I bought 100lbs. That was about 2 years ago, so I cannot say his prices are still the same.

Necessary...no....Beneficial...Yes. You make the choice and see if real food works just as good. Personally, I'll stick to protein shakes.

Originally Posted by pebble

I buy bulk unflavoured. I get it from a local supplier. He buys it in bulk from trueprotein.com, I think. He gets a better price than they offer on their site because of how much he purchases. Last time I purchased I bought 100lbs. That was about 2 years ago, so I cannot say his prices are still the same.

Good for you.

I am impressed and wish I had a friend in the business.

$6 Per Pound

I am a great shopper and these days if you can find get it for just under $6 a pound is geat.

Protein Prices Going Up

The problem is that protein prices are going up world wide. So, while your math's on the money, it is based on old information. Great job on breaking it down!

Whey Protein 40 cents Per 24 Grams

If you got a great deal today, the cost of 24 grams of whey protein is 40 cents plus.

That doesn't include a carb mix such as dextrose, maltodextrin or waxy maze, ete.

Milk Protein 46 cents Per 24 Grams

I just picked up a gallon of milk for $2.50 per gallon. That means 24 grams of protein comes in at 46 cents.

Chocolate Milk

If you add in your own chocolate mix, Chocolate Milk is about 65 cents per 24grams of protein ($3.50 per gallon)

Carbs For Insulin Spike

However, milk and chocolate milk provide a nice insulin spike that helps recovery.

Break Even

So at this point, the cost about even between the two.

Kenny Croxdale

Nothing replaces food. But when cutting or like me, too busy at work to sit down and eat 4 times during the work day, protein powder covers a bunch of bases.

You make the choice and see if real food works just as good.

Shakes are meant for the times when whole food is not an option or the best choice, for me that would be before a workout as my stomach does not like whole food pre-workout.

Great Thread. This is why I'm glad I joined the forum.

Originally Posted by Call of Ktulu

Do you need a protein shake after you workout? Is food just as good or milk just as good for a protein source after a workout? I'm asking because protein shakes are expensive after a while.

Ktula,

Post Workout Beverage/Meal

What you want in a beverage/meal is high glycemic index and/insulin index foods. These foods trigger insulin release.

Google Glycemic Index Foods for more information on what they are.

Insulin

Insulin may be the most anabolic hormone in the body.

Non-Discrimination

Unfortunately, insulin does not discriminage what it builds. In other words it builds muscle and fat.

Harnessing Insulin The Muscle Building Hormone.

After a workout, insulin promotes muscle growth and recovery. It shuttles nutrients to the muscle and allows your muscles to recover faster.

Spiking Insulin

That means after your workout you want to spike insulin levels with high glycemic and/or insulin index beverages or foods.

Protein need to be part of the beverage or meal...preferrably a protein that is quickly digested, such as whey.

Milk Protein

The composition of milk is 20% whey and 80% caseinate. Thus, it provide you with whey (quickly digested protein) and caseinate (time released protein).

Real Food Post Workout

If you are going to consume real food post workout, you want some type of high glycemic index and/or insulin index carbohydrates.

Junk Food

Ironically, this is when bad foods are actually good for you. Some of the best high glycemic index foods are junk foods.

Pizza And...

One of the best examples of a good post workout real food meal would be a pizza and coke or beer.

Insulin The Fat Making Hormone

The dark side of insulin is that it is also a fat making hormone.

Outside of the post workout window, insulin shifts from being more of a fat building/fat storage hormone.

"Food is the ultimate drug." Dr Barry Sears/The Zone Diet

Manipulating insulin release can be an effective tool in building muscle.

However, indiscrimately spiking insulin outside of the post workout wiindow is going to increase your body fat moreso than muscle.

In other words, eating junk food later in the day isn't a good idea.

Nutrient Timing/Dr John Ivy

One of the simplest, best book on this is Nutrient Timing. It provide you with easy to understand information and a plan on how to manipulate insulin to increase muscle mass while minimizing fat.

You can find a used copy one line for around $10.

Kenny Croxdale

I hate milk, my chief reason for using whey after a workout. But, I've since used All in 1 as my definitive post workout drink. That being said, chocolate milk refreshes you far more effectively than gatorade or water.
You don't need a protein drink, but you need post workout nutrition. Supplements are not the end-all-be-all, but they are more convenient than cooking up chicken or steak. Plus in some cases, they're cheaper.

For me it is easier to grab the protein shakes and go. I take about three scoops along with 1/2 cup oatmeal and get on with my day. I would like as those above have suggested to eat a good solid meal for the stomach. It seems after an hour of consuming a shake I am right back being hungry do to it not being a solide but liquid form which shoots through the system quick. Due to the body not having to do much work to digest it, and also doesn't force your metabolism to work harder. I do
recommend both whey and casin protein IMO.

Originally Posted by Chrisotpherm

I do
recommend both whey and casin protein IMO.

That's good advice.

The digestive tract is a very vascular system. Supplementing a protein shake with ha High GI food after a workout is always the way to go (like a banana). This will allow for easier absorption of the nutrients. I think it is something beneficial but not necessarily detrimental to go without. Just make sure you get high protein and high carb.

Originally Posted by juggernaut

I hate milk, my chief reason for using whey after a workout. But, I've since used All in 1 as my definitive post workout drink. That being said, chocolate milk refreshes you far more effectively than gatorade or water.
You don't need a protein drink, but you need post workout nutrition. Supplements are not the end-all-be-all, but they are more convenient than cooking up chicken or steak. Plus in some cases, they're cheaper.

Thanks but how long do you have to get the post workout meal in your system? An hour?

Originally Posted by Call of Ktulu

Thanks but how long do you have to get the post workout meal in your system? An hour?

Last time I read, 30 minutes.

Originally Posted by juggernaut

Last time I read, 30 minutes.

The top protein guys say before workout or hour after workout.

From a post I made yesterday. It has info about what to drink and when to drink it.

Originally Posted by pebble

First off during RT cortisol rises, you can defend against this with CHO (causes insulin spike which cause a shift from catabolism to anabolism therefore less muscle break down).

This is RT of 3 sets of 10 reps for 8 exercise (each a primary movement patteren). Notice that Cortisol Rises.

See there that the more cortisol one has in their body the less muscle mass they are expected to have. Cortisol is bad for muscle growth (in most cases).
But if you take some CHO.

We can see that it stays relatively low throughout RT and into recovery.
Second, you should be drinking CHO and protein (or essential amino acids or mixed amino acids - but know the response they elicite compaired to traditional whey (EAA 8-10g= 20g Whey, MAA 12-15 = 20g whey)).

Notice that the Combo of CHO and an amino acid promote greatest levels of protein synthesis.

And some other information to drive home the point:
Effect of individual treatments on protein synthesis (above resting values)

• hyperinsulinemia +50%
• resistance exercise +100%
• increased aa availability +150%
• resistance ex + aa avail +200%
• resist ex + aa avail + CHO +400%

- from various Rasmussen studies

Third, you should be drinking said shake pre workout to maximize results.

There is a drastic difference between levels of protein synthesis between the groups, and the most favourable outcome is pre exercise.

You take a person that eats solid diet and then adds protein in to his diet for say a shake in the morning or casein shake at night and watch and see if he recovers more and begins to feel stronger. Sure food is the best thing to use for you main source of power, but more then countless studies will show adding protein to the diet is benefical. Now your companies that over sell their high price items I stay away from. However there are several protein powders that are effective and no hard on the wallet. Orbitnutrition has a wide variety. Also I gurantee if you did a honest poll in the forums more lifters take protein shakes then not.

Originally Posted by packers6211

You take a person that eats solid diet and then adds protein in to his diet for say a shake in the morning or casein shake at night and watch and see if he recovers more and begins to feel stronger. Sure food is the best thing to use for you main source of power, but more then countless studies will show adding protein to the diet is benefical. Now your companies that over sell their high price items I stay away from. However there are several protein powders that are effective and no hard on the wallet. Orbitnutrition has a wide variety. Also I gurantee if you did a honest poll in the forums more lifters take protein shakes then not.

Packers,

Hard On Your Wallet

Your right, the products many companies do more for their bottom line than your wallet.

Orbit Nutrition

Orbit Nutrition certainly sells a wide variety of products. However, many of their products produce results for their bank account while depleting yours.

Protein Supplements

Their protein supplement line is about average on pricing.

"There ain't no free lunch."

There are some good deals on protein supplements if you shop around.

Kenny Croxdale

Originally Posted by packers6211

Also I gurantee if you did a honest poll in the forums more lifters take protein shakes then not.

Besides being a shitty at spelling what would this prove?

Originally Posted by Call of Ktulu

Do you need a protein shake after you workout? Is food just as good or milk just as good for a protein source after a workout? I'm asking because protein shakes are expensive after a while.

As long as you are getting your protein it doesn't really matter what the source is

lol wow. I'm saying there are some good protein powders that help aid in one's total amount they need daily. I love steak and chicken just like most lifters do, but I also work 10 hr shifts and have two kids in sports. So a protein shake to have in need isn't a bad idea and doesn't make me go broke. Funny how on every forum you will go to there's countless protein threads.