gains w/out steroids

**bmx52** · 02-15-2003, 05:10 AM

I am new to bodybuilding and weightlifting(been doing it since August) and am interested in setting goals for myself that are tough but realistic. As I cannot afford steroids, and am wary of the side-effects, given careful training, excellent diet, and all the other things being correct, how big can one with moderate-good genetics get without steroid use? Are physiques like you see in Muscle and Fitness and similar magazines possible to attain without steroids?

**Monolith** · 02-15-2003, 07:09 AM

if you're new to bodybuilding, you shouldnt even be considering steroids yet.

big, ripped muscles are definitely possible without juice, but it is a bit dependent on genetics. the only way for you to know is to stay consistent and hardworking at the gym. maybe in a couple years you'll finally reach a plateau that you cant break through - THEN maybe you could consider roids.

**Mudge** · 02-15-2003, 01:16 PM

Can you afford the food, if you can't get the diet down you are robbing yourself no matter what supplements you use. Most people seem to quit or become immediately discouraged when they hear they have to eat right, if your all natural you need all the help you can get. Guys ON gear, will eat even more, I've come across an NPC guy on 690g protein per day, while bulking.

**ZECH** · 02-15-2003, 03:50 PM

I will be willing to say all the guys you see in the magazines(big magazines) are on roids. If you think you can look like that without gear, your wrong.

**The Berg Master** · 02-15-2003, 04:08 PM

Yeah, dg806 is right. Who would want to look like them anyway? They are total freaks of nature (and medicine).

**Mudge** · 02-15-2003, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by bmx52
Are physiques like you see in Muscle and Fitness and similar magazines possible to attain without steroids?

If your talking Flex and mags like that, no, even much smaller guys are on roids.

There are big people out there, but I seriously doubt you will find someone all natural with 20" arms without being fat, or a serious genetic freak.

**ZECH** · 02-16-2003, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by dg806
I will be willing to say all the guys you see in the magazines(big magazines) are on roids. If you think you can look like that without gear, your wrong.

I didn't post this to convince anyone to take steriods. I was just pointing out a fact. BTW, you can get very big naturally, but not as huge and ripped like those guys!

**Fit Freak** · 02-17-2003, 02:37 AM

I think the biggest thing to be aware of is the ability to get big BUT stay VERY LEAN.....that is a huge advantage of roids as well as T3, clen, HGH, etc. If you're "natural" when you get extremely lean it becomes very difficult to maintain that condition w/o losing mucle.

I would agree that most people you see in magazines...even a lot of guys in toned down mags like men's fitness and men's health are on some gear. Obviously not anything like the pros but likely something...just lower doses and more mild drugs....just my opinion.

**DaMayor** · 02-17-2003, 08:38 AM

Yeah, the bastards.
I'm sure this will elicit some debate (I'm sure it has been OVER debated before) but I'll take natural over cheating any day.

**MeanCuts** · 02-17-2003, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by Fit Freak
I think the biggest thing to be aware of is the ability to get big BUT stay VERY LEAN.....that is a huge advantage of roids as well as T3, clen, HGH, etc. If you're "natural" when you get extremely lean it becomes very difficult to maintain that condition w/o losing mucle.

I would agree that most people you see in magazines...even a lot of guys in toned down mags like men's fitness and men's health are on some gear. Obviously not anything like the pros but likely something...just lower doses and more mild drugs....just my opinion.

I've went on cutting cycles naturally and lost a good amount of muscle

I tried an ECA stack and it seemed to help with the muscle loss.You ever take an ECA and notice this?

**Fit Freak** · 02-17-2003, 12:34 PM

Actually I find ECA helps me hang on to more muscle....but I don't find that ECA stacks do much for me anyway...everyone is different. I wish I was sensitive to the stuff...then I could actually "feel" it doing something. I think it's as much a mental game as anything!

**MeanCuts** · 02-17-2003, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by Fit Freak
Actually I find ECA helps me hang on to more muscle....but I don't find that ECA stacks do much for me anyway...everyone is different. I wish I was sensitive to the stuff...then I could actually "feel" it doing something. I think it's as much a mental game as anything!

Actually I didn't buy a stack I just bought some MaHuang and took it with my coffee(homemade stack).It worked great and was cheap

**gopro** · 02-20-2003, 07:29 AM

Just to add some more perspective to this query...I have been bodybuilding drug free for 15 years now...here is what I've accomplished...

-bodyweight when beginning...125 lbs...top offseason bodyweight...268 (14% bodyfat)
-arm size when beginning...11"...arm size now...19.5" (over 20" pumped)
-bench press when beginning...70 lbs...best ever to date 500 lbs

I did NOT list my accomplishments to brag, I did so to show you what is possible with years of hard work, dedication, discipline, and passion...without steroids. And no, I am NOT a genetic freak. I started off weak and skinny as a girl. I have had to work my ass off for every oz of muscle on my body!

Perhaps you can't be Mr Olympia without drugs, but you certainly can get a magazine worthy physique if you are willing to put the work in.

**kanun** · 02-20-2003, 09:16 AM

Does anyone have any (links to) photos of big natural BB's? I'm interested in seeing what natural limitations look like

**DaMayor** · 02-20-2003, 12:39 PM

..I have been bodybuilding drug free for 15 years now...

Key phrase, or term..."years". Keep us grounded GoPro.

**dvlmn666** · 02-20-2003, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by MeanCuts
I've went on cutting cycles naturally and lost a good amount of muscle

I tried an ECA stack and it seemed to help with the muscle loss.You ever take an ECA and notice this?

Add some BCAA's when your cutting as well. It seems to help me not sure how it'll affect you though.

**MeanCuts** · 02-20-2003, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by dvlmn666
Add some BCAA's when your cutting as well. It seems to help me not sure how it'll affect you though.

Think I will cause I definitely think the added protien(whey) I took while cutting also helped

**gopro** · 02-20-2003, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by DaMayor
Key phrase, or term..."years". Keep us grounded GoPro.

Yes, years of training is key, however, I won my first show after 3 years of training and benched 400 after 7 years of training. You need time to build muscle and if you do it right, you can just keep on gaining every year!!

**P-funk** · 02-20-2003, 06:51 PM

Does anyone have any (links to) photos of big natural BB's? I'm interested in seeing what natural limitations look like

Here is a picture of Miles Stovall. He is an all natural pro bb. If you want to see more natural bb. Try looking for the magazine Natural Bodybuilding and Fitness

http://www.exercisegroup.com/nbaf0201msw.htm

**Mudge** · 02-20-2003, 08:22 PM

Top 2 supplements are dedication, and wisdom. Persistence makes winners.

**MeanCuts** · 02-20-2003, 08:58 PM

Originally posted by Mudge
Top 2 supplements are dedication, and wisdom. Persistence makes winners.

Right on

**kanun** · 02-21-2003, 09:26 AM

Originally posted by P-funk
Here is a picture of Miles Stovall. He is an all natural pro bb.

http://www.exercisegroup.com/nbaf0201msw.htm

Wow

I'm impressed. If I had seen this pic in a mag or something I would've assumed he was on juice, but then again I don't know much about the topic :o
Thanks for the link

**P-funk** · 02-21-2003, 09:48 AM

Wow I'm impressed. If I had seen this pic in a mag or something I would've assumed he was on juice, but then again I don't know much about the topic

Just becuase they claim to be All Natural, are in All natural mags and are All Natural professional cometitors doesn't mean they can still be using gear and gettign away with it. I think this guy is natural tho.

**gopro** · 02-21-2003, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by kanun
Wow

I'm impressed. If I had seen this pic in a mag or something I would've assumed he was on juice, but then again I don't know much about the topic :o
Thanks for the link

From what I know about Miles, he is really natural. He is a WNBF pro and I plan on standing next to him on stage next year!!

**Mudge** · 02-21-2003, 06:20 PM

GP, do you have a public opinion on Mike Ashely?

**bsc14** · 02-22-2003, 07:02 AM

You guys are a little discouraging. Are you saying w/o steroids this is impossible?

Just an example.

**ZECH** · 02-22-2003, 03:10 PM

no

**LAM** · 02-22-2003, 03:45 PM

and you also still need good genetics...

**gopro** · 02-23-2003, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by bsc14
You guys are a little discouraging. Are you saying w/o steroids this is impossible?

Just an example.

Did you read my first post in this thread??

**gopro** · 02-23-2003, 08:07 AM

Originally posted by Mudge
GP, do you have a public opinion on Mike Ashely?

Thats a tough one Mudge. Mike only competed at about 196 lbs and didn't gain much weight throughout his career. His physique was still pretty unbelievable as he was a successful IFBB pro. Another thing is that his jawline screamed GH. I really can't say for sure...perhaps his genetics were on the highest scale, or, he used drugs, but in smaller amounts than other pros.

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