ALA dosages....what's the range?

**DaMayor** · 03-11-2003, 06:50 AM

I have read several articles concerning the effects and benefits of Alpha Lipoic Acid. However, the dosage recommended on the product I use (100mg tabs...1 tab per day) varies greatly from the articles I've read here/via other threads, which ranged from 200mg per day to 1200mg per day. What would you folks say is the most common dose used to aid in recovery/decrease BF?

**Dr. Pain** · 03-11-2003, 07:03 AM

Well...I use it to intensify my other antioxidants and lower insulin resistance....

I prefer 300 mgs of Sustained Release (both Jarrow and Source Naturals have this)..and only take it in the morning (lasts 7-9 hours, as I'm carb deplete at night.)

There are two forms of ALA btw.....most companies mix "S" and "R"

DP

**DaMayor** · 03-11-2003, 07:08 AM

*attempts to re-locate to proper (suppliments) forum*
I see. What would be the benefit of ingesting 1200mg a day? (Other than that ($) of the manufacturer?)
Would this be used in cases of severe insulin resistence?

**Dr. Pain** · 03-11-2003, 07:21 AM

More is better to a point....type 2 diabetics benefit big time, it's expensive and unless time released, your gonna have to remeber to take it at intervals.

I think 1200 mgs is overkill unless you have a very specific problem or see/feel results immediately

I'll move it!

DP

**DaMayor** · 03-11-2003, 07:55 AM

(Thanks for the move)
My concern/interest in ALA is motivated by my belief that I have become much more insulin resistant ....to the point that it has interfered with my progress, or reduction of BF, and it appears that I am stalled metabolically. (my Dr. mentioned this in the past, but not due to any extreme worry at the time) Now, I've brought this up in the past, and received great advice, so my case history isn't warranted here (again). I was just wondering if ALA would help expedite a decrease in BF while maintaining LM.
Time released? Yikes. I haven't noticed if the brand I've been taking even notes this info. on the bottle. I've been taking 600mg in the a.m., but may adjust this to 200mg X3 daily. Sensible?

**Dr. Pain** · 03-11-2003, 03:50 PM

Yes....more sensible, but depending how your carbs fall....you may just want to reduce or consolidate the dosage to certain times!

I wouldn't expect any miracles, heck..you may not even notice the results...except over months and months....just know that it is a good supp and worth taking!

DP

**Britney** · 03-11-2003, 05:01 PM

DP, I was thinking of getting some, but never ordered yet. Think I should?

**DaMayor** · 03-11-2003, 05:44 PM

I hate to sound like the Walmart representative..again...but Walmart carries ALA.

**Dr. Pain** · 03-11-2003, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by Britney
DP, I was thinking of getting some, but never ordered yet. Think I should?

I'd rather see you do 3 (4 capsules) or more grams of CLA a day (Tonalin)

DP

**Robboe** · 03-12-2003, 06:01 AM

Originally posted by Dr. Pain

I think 1200 mgs is overkill unless you have a very specific problem or see/feel results immediately

Me too, but some find large amounts useful after the carb loads on a CKD.

I know of some who spread 2-3g out over the day too. I definately think this could be problematic with regards to blood pH though.

I believe one lad was using it during his gear cycle for the anti-oxidant properties and others have looked at it and not realised that, so they're using high amounts too.

**Dr. Pain** · 03-12-2003, 06:04 AM

Good Morning Rob!

Would you delini8 on "S" (Walmart) versus "R" for the masses for me please?

DP

**Robboe** · 03-12-2003, 06:05 AM

Not really. I've got bad guts.

**Robboe** · 03-12-2003, 06:05 AM

But don't let that dampen your day. I know how much you worry for my health.

**Dr. Pain** · 03-12-2003, 06:06 AM

Sorry...take some ALA and call me in the morning......j/k

Feel better!

DP

**Dr. Pain** · 03-12-2003, 06:13 AM

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
But don't let that dampen your day. I know how much you worry for my health.

Hey...I care...

Really!

Originally posted by Dr. Pain

Would you delini8 on "S" (Walmart) versus "R" type ALA for the masses for me please?

DP

**Robboe** · 03-12-2003, 06:15 AM

Originally posted by Dr. Pain
Sorry...take some ALA and call me in the morning......j/k

Feel better!

DP

I do actually have some ALA (got it just the other day) but i'm sving it for further down the line during this cut for other purposes.

I haven't read much on ALA for a while, but i do believe the S isomer is more for anti-oxidant properties and the R isomer is more for the insulin mimicking properties.

I think.

**DaMayor** · 03-12-2003, 06:44 AM

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Me too, but some find large amounts useful after the carb loads on a CKD.

What about during fairly radical/sustained carb depletion periods? Let's say two to three week period(s) with an average carb intake of 30 grams per day, or less....(e.g. Induction period during the evil Atkins diet, rather than CKD)

**Robboe** · 03-12-2003, 06:57 AM

Well they use the large amounts post carb load to get their blood sugar levels down quicker to help get back into ketosis.

If you go low carb for 3 weeks then such high amounts aren't really necessary, aside from anti-oxidant effects.

But then again, anyone going 3 weeks on low carbs without a carb load is bonkers in my opinion anyway.

**Dr. Pain** · 03-12-2003, 06:59 AM

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy

But then again, anyone going 3 weeks on low carbs without a carb load is bonkers in my opinion anyway.

TCD is very right here.....think Lifestyle not Induction......you're gonna compromise metabolism, thyroid functin and IGF levels going that long!

DP

**Robboe** · 03-12-2003, 07:03 AM

Yeah, i'd bet your workouts would be crappy too.

**DaMayor** · 03-12-2003, 07:43 AM

Originally posted by Dr. Pain
TCD is very right here.....think Lifestyle not Induction......you're gonna compromise metabolism, thyroid functin and IGF levels going that long!

DP

I was only using the 2-3 week period hypothetically. Although I realize Atkins calls for a minimum of two weeks for the "induction" period. As far as metabolism is concerned, again hypothetically, wouldn't suplimenting with higher doses of fish and/or flax oils help regulate leptin levels, etc? (i.e., fend off the "starvation" response)
Workouts are never a bed of roses anyway....

**Robboe** · 03-12-2003, 08:06 AM

Fish oils are good.

They can help alter the permeability of the brain to leptin (over time).

Basically, they can assist in regulating your setpoint.

**DaMayor** · 03-12-2003, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Basically, they can assist in regulating your setpoint.

Could you define/expound on 'setpoint'?

*TCD sends PM to DP....Man, this guy is dense!*

**Robboe** · 03-12-2003, 08:33 AM

Where your body wants to be regarding bodyfat level.

You know those skinny little bastards who eat loads and yet maintain their skinny little bitch status? They have low bodyfat setpoints.

And you know those people who eat shit loads and stay fat? yeah, they have higher setpoints.

Your body regulates loads of complicated stuff so you stay there.

Those with low setpoints tend to have lower appetites, regulate hunger better so overall they eat less and if they overeat one day, their appetites go down for the next few days and their metabolism speeds up to expend the calories and weight they put on in that day of overfeeding.

Those with high setpoints have bigger appetites and can't control hunger as good so have tendancies to eat more.

It's possible to get below setpoint and maintain it, but it's a bastard cause your body throws loads at you to get you to eat more, such as raging appetite, hunger pangs, cravings etc...

It's all measured by leptin (or at least, leptin is the major player in regulating all this).

**DaMayor** · 03-12-2003, 08:49 AM

Okay, what about those who, just by their physiological nature/not as an act of will don't have cravings, don't require a great deal/can go without eating (if this were required for whatever weird reason) yet are able to maintain or gain "weight" anyway?

**Robboe** · 03-12-2003, 09:20 AM

Sorry, my brain is really misty today and i'm having trouble deciphering sentences. Can you rephrase that?

**DaMayor** · 03-12-2003, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Where your body wants to be regarding bodyfat level.

You know those skinny little bastards who eat loads and yet maintain their skinny little bitch status?
-----This Ain't me.

And you know those people who eat shit loads and stay fat?
-----This Ain't me either.

Your body regulates loads of complicated stuff so you stay there.
-----Gotcha....Understood.

Those with low setpoints
" tend to have lower appetites, regulate hunger better so overall they eat less"----This applies to me.

"and if they overeat one day, their appetites go down for the next few days"-----This applies to me as well.

"and their metabolism"-----Don't have one of these.

" speeds up to expend the calories and weight they put on in that day of overfeeding." -----Can't relate.....its still right here. (points to abs/obliques)

Those with high setpoints have bigger appetites and can't control hunger as good so have tendancies to eat more.

It's possible to get below setpoint and maintain it, but it's a bastard cause your body throws loads at you to get you to eat more, such as raging appetite, hunger pangs, cravings etc...

It's all measured by leptin (or at least, leptin is the major player in regulating all this).

In other words....What do you call individuals who don't experience cravings, who don't eat loads of grub, yet maintain above "normal" rather, above 'healthy' levels of BF?
Metabolically stalled? Dead?

Okay, so lets say this same "metabolically screwed" individual increases calories to re-set the metabolism, yet begins to gain "weight" before reaching, let's say, 2800 calories per day.....when everyone who has advised this guy (me) has recommended going as high as ~3000-3500. All of this while taking typical suppliments and working out 3+ times a week.
My point is, based on your statements above, I share characteristics with both high and low setpoint groups.
I've received some good advice, but with little results.....hence, I must be a hybrid of the two groups mentioned above.
Confused now? I sure am.

**Robboe** · 03-12-2003, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by DaMayor
In other words....What do you call individuals who don't experience cravings, who don't eat loads of grub, yet maintain above "normal" rather, above 'healthy' levels of BF?
Metabolically stalled? Dead?

Liars usually.

Haha! Joking, but most studies show that most people either drastically underestimate their total calorie intake or drastically overestimate it.

Have you actually tried dieting with a calorie deficit?

I'm guessing you're not getting cravings because your calories aren't in deficit and therefore your leptin isn't dropping.

You are cutting, right?

**Twin Peak** · 03-12-2003, 05:53 PM

http://www.1fast400.com/store/produc...roducts_id=457

Describes r-ALA, and compares it to s-ALA.

**Dr. Pain** · 03-12-2003, 06:59 PM

Thanks TP...we have another one floating around here too...unless it was from a spammer we deleted!

DP

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