VPX and the PH ban...

**gopro** · 06-20-2003, 06:52 AM

I've been looking into this matter and have been able to gather some information since this was mentioned in another thread. There is alot of anger, backstabbing, and namecalling going on in the industry right now, which is unfortunate. This creates hatred and even more misinformation. Anyway, here is some of what I was able to gather (this has been paraphrased and was written by someone at VPX)...

Again VPX was first to do a four page spread in the current issue Human Muscle and Performance Magazine to support the USFA that goes against anti-prohormone legislation. Rick Collins of steroidlaw.com who founded this organization, lied and told VPX that they would be included as members in the anti-andro USFA due to this trend setting, high priced article. VPX spent over $15,000 on a four-page spread with unreal graphics, a swat team with automatic weapons and models a photography crew and payed models and laborers thousands of dollars to pass out a record breaking 40,000 publications at the Arnold Classic. Collins F'ed VPX and just used this article to promote his own agenda. Collins and his cronies used all this press to sell steroid law tee shirts and his book which he launched at the Arnold. Collins was overheard talking trash about VPX, 1-TEST and Jack Owoc by Detective S. Harrison who documented his conversation at the Arnold Classic. He stated that Owoc thinks he's fooling everyone by developing and releasing 1-TEST. And further that Owoc created a real steroid with 1-TEST. You see the USFA is against 1-TEST and VPX and are stupid enough to beleive that if they give up androstenedione to the feds as a sacrificial lamb that the feds will back off. ...and this is what these clowns are planning to do. Since 4 ADione is the parent horomone of most prohoromnes, once this compound is classified illegal, which the USFA is in the process of organizing, then all prohormones derived from this parent horomone will be reclasified as illegal anabolic steroids. The USFA is either really stupid or just on the side of the feds and the anti-andro legislators. Either way VPX doesn't want any part of this ludicrous, Pat Arnold-induced self-serving charade. Of cource Patty supports the USFA because their admitted agenda is to do away with 1-TEST. When this happens Arnold will be sitting pretty with his useless 1-AD.

Further, when Senator McKain made all kinds of false

statements to the press about andro killing our 9 year-old kids (during the peak of the war no less), the genuis' at the USFA did nothing. Owoc wanted to take agressive action and file charges against McKain on behalf of all andro-selling supplement companies for these damaging, false and untrue statements. These statements made by McKain et. al, to the press cause 100'S of thousands of dollars in damages to prohormone seling companies and the USFA did nothing. Again it's just Patty's and his sack sniffin' crew promoting false information to try to defame VPX. VPX has Pat and other jealous companies wrapped up in a phsychological burritto. VPX deservingly owns the protein and prohormone market and is the most cutting edge comapany in all of sports nutrition. Pat's life revolves around trying to defame VPX. While VPX just keeps coming out with innovation after innovation and reducing Arnold's business to nothing. As long as Pat Arnold and his lame crew continue to focus on VPX they will just get further and further behind. 4 -TEST and 1-TEST Cypionate have just about burried these pathetic wannabees. In two more weeks VPX will drop a bomb on the market so powerful that you'll hear the cries of the haters around the globe. Get ready!

bigswole30 · 06-20-2003, 08:44 AM

I knew there was something behind the USFA and VPX. I wondr what the bomb will be that VPX drops next. I wonder how people do not realize that VPX are the leaders of this industry.

bigswole30 · 06-20-2003, 08:46 AM

Also, GOPRO I posted this on BB.com. I hope you do not mind. There have not been many replies so far. It kind of shut people up. Pat Arnold is on the board, but has not commented.

**gopro** · 06-20-2003, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigswole30
Also, GOPRO I posted this on BB.com. I hope you do not mind. There have not been many replies so far. It kind of shut people up. Pat Arnold is on the board, but has not commented.

No problem! Get this info out! Don't worry...Pat of one of his boyz will think of a "clever" reply soon I'm sure!

Twin Peak · 06-20-2003, 01:22 PM

I can't comment on lots of that, and I am not trying to discredit the VPX statement, but here are some things to think about.

1) There is at least one clear discrepency in that statement.

Quote:

You see the USFA is against 1-TEST and VPX and are stupid enough to beleive that if they give up androstenedione to the feds as a sacrificial lamb that the feds will back off. ...and this is what these clowns are planning to do. Since 4 ADione is the parent horomone of most prohoromnes, once this compound is classified illegal, which the USFA is in the process of organizing, then all prohormones derived from this parent horomone will be reclasified as illegal anabolic steroids.

This is very odd. First it says the USFA is against 1-test. This isn't true, since many of the members sell 1-test products. Second it says that USFA will "give up androstendione" a parent prohormone. Andro, as we all know is not a parent of 1-test. Andro was the first PH to come out (developed by Pat Arnold). 1-test is certainly not a derivative of this, indeed, if anything, 1-test is higher on the food chain. Third, what exactly is derived from 4 adione? Not much. Maybe 4-Adiol.

Then it states:

Quote:

Of cource Patty supports the USFA because their admitted agenda is to do away with 1-TEST. When this happens Arnold will be sitting pretty with his useless 1-AD.

Again this is inconsistent. First, if his agenda was to do away with 1-test, why would they offer to give up "4-adiol." That makes no sense. Second, if 4-adione was made illegal, you can bet your ass 1-AD will be illegal as well. Indeed, if anything, as stated above 4-adione may be a parent to 1AD. So explain this.

2) Whats this 4-Test business? I have never heard of such an animal. Please explain.

bigswole30 · 06-20-2003, 01:52 PM

You make a good argument. As for the 4-test. It is actullay how they are describing their new 4-ad CYP. He says it converts to test. Maybe just another name to sound like an AAS. Who knows. I know I posted it over at BB.com and it is going over like a whore in church.

Twin Peak · 06-20-2003, 02:11 PM

That is really poor marketing tactic, IMO.

The called there 1-test product 1-TEST, which I am sure was to make it sound like they developed (i.e. trademarked the name, big whoop) 1-test. Still, not such a big deal as at least its accurate.

We all know that 1-test though is an actual steroid and does not need to be converted.

Contrast that to EVERY prohormone (4-diol, 1, 4 diol, 1 ad, 19-Nor, etc.) which ALL are converted by enzymes in the body to a steroid. Hence the term PRO-HORMONE.

So what makes their 4-diol cyp any different? Sounds like from you post -- NOTHING. Thus, naming it 4-TEST, to sound like an actual steroid that needs no conversion, IMO is misleading.

I know that it always comes off as I am a VPX basher. I am not. I have used their products. I think there products are decent.

I just think:

1) they are on the wrong side of the PH fight, and that above statement does nothing to pursuad me otherwise, particularly since it is filled will glaring inaccuracies and they try to make a big deal about handing out free company mags/brouchures, which happened to have an anti-ban ad. And it turns out they ALWAYS give that mag away for free for marketing purposes. It sounds a bit odd, after knowing this that they condemned Rick Collins for also pitching his stuff.

2) I hate their product names, as they are always intended to sound like drugs (EQ.....). And their marketing.

**Mudge** · 06-20-2003, 02:16 PM

If the above is true it makes me think alot less of Collins, and makes the whole organization look like they are trying to eat thier own foot. The ignorance of the situation would make me very angry.

bigswole30 · 06-20-2003, 02:20 PM

Once again Twin Peak. I have no argument with you. I also want to applaude for the way you respond with respect. Others on BB.com have nothing better to do than call names. I am glad to see someone in the industry is better than that. Also, I got the email from Justin. Thanks.

Twin Peak · 06-20-2003, 02:27 PM

Good. I had been bugging him for a week.

**dg806** · 06-23-2003, 06:57 AM

[quote]Originally posted by gopro

Again VPX was first to do a four page spread in the current issue Human Muscle and Performance Magazine to support the USFA that goes against anti-prohormone legislation.

This is not true.

And further that Owoc created a real steroid with 1-TEST.

Since when did he create 1-test?

You see the USFA is against 1-TEST and VPX and are stupid enough to beleive that if they give up androstenedione to the feds as a sacrificial lamb that the feds will back off. ...and this is what these clowns are planning to do.

The USFA is not against 1-Test. They were the very first group to support 1-test! Androstenedione is long gone from this point in all pratical purposes. If USFA is against VPX, then it is because they do not support USFA beliefs.

Since 4 ADione is the parent horomone of most prohoromnes, once this compound is classified illegal, which the USFA is in the process of organizing, then all prohormones derived from this parent horomone will be reclasified as illegal anabolic steroids.

4ADione? This is a crock. 1-test does not convert. 1/ad converts directly to 1-test. 19 Nor(dione or diol) converts to nandrolene. 4-ad converts to Testosterone. 1,4 Andro converts to Boldenone. These are the major PH's. USFA is not trying to get anything banned!!

The USFA is either really stupid or just on the side of the feds and the anti-andro legislators.

This could not be further from the truth!

Either way VPX doesn't want any part of this ludicrous, Pat Arnold-induced self-serving charade. Of cource Patty supports the USFA because their admitted agenda is to do away with 1-TEST. When this happens Arnold will be sitting pretty with his useless 1-AD.

Again not true. And 1-ad is IMO the best oral out now.

**gopro** · 06-23-2003, 07:42 AM

[quote]Originally posted by dg806

Quote:

Originally posted by gopro

Again VPX was first to do a four page spread in the current issue Human Muscle and Performance Magazine to support the USFA that goes against anti-prohormone legislation.

This is not true.

GUESS YOU DIDN'T SEE THE ISSUE B/C IT IS TRUE

And further that Owoc created a real steroid with 1-TEST.

Since when did he create 1-test?

JUST AS PAT ARNOLD DID NOT INVENT 1-AD, JACK DID NOT INVENT 1-TEST...BOTH OF THEM WERE THE ONES RESPONSIBLE FOR BRINGING THESE COMPOUNDS TO THE MARKET.

You see the USFA is against 1-TEST and VPX and are stupid enough to beleive that if they give up androstenedione to the feds as a sacrificial lamb that the feds will back off. ...and this is what these clowns are planning to do.

The USFA is not against 1-Test. They were the very first group to support 1-test! Androstenedione is long gone from this point in all pratical purposes. If USFA is against VPX, then it is because they do not support USFA beliefs.

THEY DO NOT SUPPORT 1-TEST...THEY WANT TO CLASSIFY IT AS A STEROID.

Since 4 ADione is the parent horomone of most prohoromnes, once this compound is classified illegal, which the USFA is in the process of organizing, then all prohormones derived from this parent horomone will be reclasified as illegal anabolic steroids.

4ADione? This is a crock. 1-test does not convert. 1/ad converts directly to 1-test. 19 Nor(dione or diol) converts to nandrolene. 4-ad converts to Testosterone. 1,4 Andro converts to Boldenone. These are the major PH's. USFA is not trying to get anything banned!!

WHO SAID THAT 1-TEST CONVERTS??

The USFA is either really stupid or just on the side of the feds and the anti-andro legislators.

This could not be further from the truth!

YOU THINK YOU KNOW ALL OF THE POLITICS AND FACTS INVOLVED HERE, BUT UNFORTUNATLEY ALL PEOPLE KNOW ARE HALF TRUTHS AND MISINFORMATION THAT IS BASED ON JEALOUSY, HATE, AND SELF PROMOTION.

Again not true. And 1-ad is IMO the best oral out now.

ARNOLD DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE CONSUMER BUT ONLY HOW HE CAN TRY AND CORNER THE PH MARKET. HE WASN'T INTELLEIGENT ENOUGH TO GET HIS PRO (PROHOROMNE RESEARCH ORGANIZATION) OFF THE GROUND SO HE JOINED FORCES WITH COLLINS AND THE USFA TO PUSH HIS AGENDA. ARNOLD'S AGENDA IS NOT WHAT OTHER SUPPLEMENT COMPANIES AND CONSUMERS WANT. IT'S COMPLETELY SELF-SERVING.

1-AD IS VASTLY INFERIOR TO 1-TEST. WHAT DOES 1-AD NEED TO CONVERT TO TO BE ACTIVE...1-TEST! ITS EASY TO DO THE MATH.

VPX WILL NOT SUPPORT THIS NONSENCE. NEITHER WILL VPX SUPPORT AN ORGANIZATION WHO WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THOUSANDS OF CONSMUERS LOOSING THEIR RIGHT TO FREE CHOICE FOR THE PROHORMONE AND PROSTEROIDS THEY REALY WANT. WHICH ARE 1-TEST ADN 4 DIOL ESTERS. THE SUPPLEMENT COMPANIES THAT HAVE A 1-TEST PRODUCT ARE SUPPORTING COLLINS EVENTHOUGH THEY ARE WELL AWARE THAT HE AS ADMITTED IN HIS WRITING AND DIRECT CORRESPONDENCE WITH THESE COMPANIES THAT THE 1-TEST PRO-STEROID AS AN ILLEGAL COMPOUND. VPX CAN ONLY BE RESPONSIBLE FOR IT'S OWN ACTIONS IN NOT SUPPORTING AN ORGANIZATION THAT DOES NOT HAVE THE BEST INTENTIONS OF THE CONSUMER AND AMERICAN PUBILC AT HEART. IF THE OTHER COMPANIES WITH A 1-TESTOSTERONE PRODUCT WANT TO SUPPORT A FORCE THAT IS AGAINST THEM AND PAY THE FAT SALARIES OF THE USFA, THEN VPX CAN'T BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS STUPIDITY.

Twin Peak · 06-23-2003, 07:58 AM

Fat salaries? USFA is a not for profit org.

But all I hear is "blah vlah blah, politics, blah blah."

There is still not a single shred of evidence that VPX has done OR IS DOING anything to stop the ban. You haven't even argued this, just said that it won't support a corrupt organization. If it is the heralded leader, then shouldn't it be doinf comething? ANYTHING???

**gopro** · 06-23-2003, 08:07 AM

Again VPX was first to do a four page spread in the current issue Human Muscle and Performance Magazine to support the USFA that goes against anti-prohormone legislation. Rick Collins of steroidlaw.com who founded this organization, lied and told VPX that they would be included as members in the anti-andro USFA due to this trend setting, high priced article. VPX spent over $15,000 on a four-page spread with unreal graphics, a swat team with automatic weapons and models a photography crew and payed models and laborers thousands of dollars to pass out a record breaking 40,000 publications at the Arnold Classic.

VPX DELIVERED 175,000 MAGS WITH THE COVER AND A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE INSIDE DEVOTED TO THE ANTI-ANDRO CAUSE. YOU ARE SILLY IF YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT A MONUMENTAL FINANCIAL AND PHYSICAL WORK-RELATED COMITTMENT THIS TAKES. THIS IS FAR MORE INVOLVEMENT THAN ALL THE OTHER SUPPLEMNTS COMPANIES COMBINED!

1Fast400 · 06-23-2003, 08:26 AM

You guys are so sad. People standing on the sidelines, thinking they know what they are talking about. Figuring I'm an officer of the USFA, I know more about this situation than any of you. I can assure you, your perceived "facts" are very wrong. So sad a few idiots can take a rumor and spread it so fast this day in time.

1Fast400 · 06-23-2003, 08:27 AM

The ad they did was nothing more than an ad for their stuff. How does it cost 15k to run an article in a magazine that you own?

Twin Peak · 06-23-2003, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gopro
VPX DELIVERED 175,000 MAGS WITH THE COVER AND A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE INSIDE DEVOTED TO THE ANTI-ANDRO CAUSE. YOU ARE SILLY IF YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT A MONUMENTAL FINANCIAL AND PHYSICAL WORK-RELATED COMITTMENT THIS TAKES. THIS IS FAR MORE INVOLVEMENT THAN ALL THE OTHER SUPPLEMNTS COMPANIES COMBINED!

Gopro, this is a VPX magazine, that advertizes VPX products, that is regularly published by VPX and regularly given out by VPX free.

I know many people who have seen free copies distributed regularly at there gyms, and supplement stores etc. It is a regular form of advertising. From what I gather, all they have done is added a four page ad in one issue.

Have they asked their customers to send letters to there congressmen? Have they supplied them with form letters? Have they provided contact info? Have they collected letters and forwarded them on? Have they hired a lobbist firm? Have they had discussions with congress? Have they spent and other money in any of these efforts?

**dg806** · 06-23-2003, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gopro

1-AD IS VASTLY INFERIOR TO 1-TEST. WHAT DOES 1-AD NEED TO CONVERT TO TO BE ACTIVE...1-TEST! ITS EASY TO DO THE MATH.

I think we have had this discussion. I think more people will vote 1-ad than 1-test. Not saying some people would not get better results from 1-test though. Lets make this a poll...........

1Fast400 · 06-23-2003, 09:27 AM

Quote:

1-AD IS VASTLY INFERIOR TO 1-TEST. WHAT DOES 1-AD NEED TO CONVERT TO TO BE ACTIVE...1-TEST! ITS EASY TO DO THE MATH.

Riggggggght. Which is why 1-AD sells more than any PH out there. Your lack of understanding on this subject is mindboggling.

**gopro** · 06-23-2003, 09:35 AM

TP, 1-Fast, Dg....

I am very reluctant to carry on this dialogue because the responses, although paraphrased by me, are not actually COMING from me. I am speaking with reps of VPX and they are giving me their words/feelings on the matter.

Truth is, this is NOT my area of expertise and I don't really have time for it. I am a fitness/nutrition/supplement expert and not a politician.

I'd like to leave this disscussion to those that are really involved. This is not part of my job and I don't want it to be.

1Fast400 · 06-23-2003, 10:13 AM

Then you shouldn't speak those words as if they were your on. Taking crap information and having a good guy spread it still makes the information crap, just remember that.

**gopro** · 06-23-2003, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 1Fast400
Then you shouldn't speak those words as if they were your on. Taking crap information and having a good guy spread it still makes the information crap, just remember that.

Ok, first, I NEVER said the words were crap...in fact, many of your words are crap my opinion. Second, I do not have to spell it out as to who is saying what, I just need to present the information. Since you and a few others have their point of view on this matter...and that is all that it is, A POINT OF VIEW FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE...I will absolutely present VPXs point of view as well. I know you are so damn sure you are right and VPX is wrong but sorry, it just ain't that simple...and anyone with a brain can see that. So, you will get all the info I can get whether it comes from me or from someone else.

And as to 1-AD being better than 1-Test...this is one area that I CAN speak to...bull! Maybe on YOUR SITE 1-AD outsells 1-Test, but your site is but one small fish in a BIG pond.

I agree that 1-AD is an excellent product, but I have watch time and time again as 1-Test (from a good company) has outperformed it by at least 25% or more.

**gopro** · 06-23-2003, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Twin Peak

Have they asked their customers to send letters to there congressmen? Have they supplied them with form letters? Have they provided contact info? Have they collected letters and forwarded them on? Have they hired a lobbist firm? Have they had discussions with congress? Have they spent and other money in any of these efforts?

YES VPX DID AN 80.000 LTR MAILOUT TO ALL OF THEIR CUSTOMERS WITH FORM LETTERS AND INTR. WITH MAILING INFO TO THEIR CUSTOMERS. AGAIN TEN TIMES MORE THAN AVANT LABS, 1FAST 400, ERGOPHARM ETC....

1Fast400 · 06-23-2003, 11:18 AM

Quote:

And as to 1-AD being better than 1-Test...this is one area that I CAN speak to...bull! Maybe on YOUR SITE 1-AD outsells 1-Test, but your site is but one small fish in a BIG pond.

haha, thank you for once again, not only knowing the sales volume of distributors, but you now know the sales volume of my store. I'm glad you know that I'm a small fish in a big pond, jesus.

Quote:

I know you are so damn sure you are right and VPX is wrong but sorry, it just ain't that simple

You know why I don't talk about brain surgery, because I don't know anything about it. You should do the same on this topic.

06-20-2003, 06:52 AM	#1
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,477	VPX and the PH ban... BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com I've been looking into this matter and have been able to gather some information since this was mentioned in another thread. There is alot of anger, backstabbing, and namecalling going on in the industry right now, which is unfortunate. This creates hatred and even more misinformation. Anyway, here is some of what I was able to gather (this has been paraphrased and was written by someone at VPX)... Again VPX was first to do a four page spread in the current issue Human Muscle and Performance Magazine to support the USFA that goes against anti-prohormone legislation. Rick Collins of steroidlaw.com who founded this organization, lied and told VPX that they would be included as members in the anti-andro USFA due to this trend setting, high priced article. VPX spent over $15,000 on a four-page spread with unreal graphics, a swat team with automatic weapons and models a photography crew and payed models and laborers thousands of dollars to pass out a record breaking 40,000 publications at the Arnold Classic. Collins F'ed VPX and just used this article to promote his own agenda. Collins and his cronies used all this press to sell steroid law tee shirts and his book which he launched at the Arnold. Collins was overheard talking trash about VPX, 1-TEST and Jack Owoc by Detective S. Harrison who documented his conversation at the Arnold Classic. He stated that Owoc thinks he's fooling everyone by developing and releasing 1-TEST. And further that Owoc created a real steroid with 1-TEST. You see the USFA is against 1-TEST and VPX and are stupid enough to beleive that if they give up androstenedione to the feds as a sacrificial lamb that the feds will back off. ...and this is what these clowns are planning to do. Since 4 ADione is the parent horomone of most prohoromnes, once this compound is classified illegal, which the USFA is in the process of organizing, then all prohormones derived from this parent horomone will be reclasified as illegal anabolic steroids. The USFA is either really stupid or just on the side of the feds and the anti-andro legislators. Either way VPX doesn't want any part of this ludicrous, Pat Arnold-induced self-serving charade. Of cource Patty supports the USFA because their admitted agenda is to do away with 1-TEST. When this happens Arnold will be sitting pretty with his useless 1-AD. Further, when Senator McKain made all kinds of false statements to the press about andro killing our 9 year-old kids (during the peak of the war no less), the genuis' at the USFA did nothing. Owoc wanted to take agressive action and file charges against McKain on behalf of all andro-selling supplement companies for these damaging, false and untrue statements. These statements made by McKain et. al, to the press cause 100'S of thousands of dollars in damages to prohormone seling companies and the USFA did nothing. Again it's just Patty's and his sack sniffin' crew promoting false information to try to defame VPX. VPX has Pat and other jealous companies wrapped up in a phsychological burritto. VPX deservingly owns the protein and prohormone market and is the most cutting edge comapany in all of sports nutrition. Pat's life revolves around trying to defame VPX. While VPX just keeps coming out with innovation after innovation and reducing Arnold's business to nothing. As long as Pat Arnold and his lame crew continue to focus on VPX they will just get further and further behind. 4 -TEST and 1-TEST Cypionate have just about burried these pathetic wannabees. In two more weeks VPX will drop a bomb on the market so powerful that you'll hear the cries of the haters around the globe. Get ready!
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. VPX Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

06-20-2003, 08:44 AM	#2
bigswole30 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: georgia Posts: 366	I knew there was something behind the USFA and VPX. I wondr what the bomb will be that VPX drops next. I wonder how people do not realize that VPX are the leaders of this industry.
	chad.brooks@epic-nutrition.com www.epic-nutrition.com www.prrstraining.com

06-20-2003, 08:46 AM	#3
bigswole30 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: georgia Posts: 366	Also, GOPRO I posted this on BB.com. I hope you do not mind. There have not been many replies so far. It kind of shut people up. Pat Arnold is on the board, but has not commented.
	chad.brooks@epic-nutrition.com www.epic-nutrition.com www.prrstraining.com

06-20-2003, 01:52 PM	#6
bigswole30 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: georgia Posts: 366	You make a good argument. As for the 4-test. It is actullay how they are describing their new 4-ad CYP. He says it converts to test. Maybe just another name to sound like an AAS. Who knows. I know I posted it over at BB.com and it is going over like a whore in church.
	chad.brooks@epic-nutrition.com www.epic-nutrition.com www.prrstraining.com

06-20-2003, 02:11 PM	#7
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	That is really poor marketing tactic, IMO. The called there 1-test product 1-TEST, which I am sure was to make it sound like they developed (i.e. trademarked the name, big whoop) 1-test. Still, not such a big deal as at least its accurate. We all know that 1-test though is an actual steroid and does not need to be converted. Contrast that to EVERY prohormone (4-diol, 1, 4 diol, 1 ad, 19-Nor, etc.) which ALL are converted by enzymes in the body to a steroid. Hence the term PRO-HORMONE. So what makes their 4-diol cyp any different? Sounds like from you post -- NOTHING. Thus, naming it 4-TEST, to sound like an actual steroid that needs no conversion, IMO is misleading. I know that it always comes off as I am a VPX basher. I am not. I have used their products. I think there products are decent. I just think: 1) they are on the wrong side of the PH fight, and that above statement does nothing to pursuad me otherwise, particularly since it is filled will glaring inaccuracies and they try to make a big deal about handing out free company mags/brouchures, which happened to have an anti-ban ad. And it turns out they ALWAYS give that mag away for free for marketing purposes. It sounds a bit odd, after knowing this that they condemned Rick Collins for also pitching his stuff. 2) I hate their product names, as they are always intended to sound like drugs (EQ.....). And their marketing.
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

06-20-2003, 02:16 PM	#8
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,966 Photos: 1	If the above is true it makes me think alot less of Collins, and makes the whole organization look like they are trying to eat thier own foot. The ignorance of the situation would make me very angry.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

06-20-2003, 02:20 PM	#9
bigswole30 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: georgia Posts: 366	Once again Twin Peak. I have no argument with you. I also want to applaude for the way you respond with respect. Others on BB.com have nothing better to do than call names. I am glad to see someone in the industry is better than that. Also, I got the email from Justin. Thanks.
	chad.brooks@epic-nutrition.com www.epic-nutrition.com www.prrstraining.com

06-20-2003, 02:27 PM	#10
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	Good. I had been bugging him for a week.
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

06-23-2003, 06:57 AM	#11
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 16,938	Re: VPX and the PH ban... [quote]Originally posted by gopro Again VPX was first to do a four page spread in the current issue Human Muscle and Performance Magazine to support the USFA that goes against anti-prohormone legislation. This is not true. And further that Owoc created a real steroid with 1-TEST. Since when did he create 1-test? You see the USFA is against 1-TEST and VPX and are stupid enough to beleive that if they give up androstenedione to the feds as a sacrificial lamb that the feds will back off. ...and this is what these clowns are planning to do. The USFA is not against 1-Test. They were the very first group to support 1-test! Androstenedione is long gone from this point in all pratical purposes. If USFA is against VPX, then it is because they do not support USFA beliefs. Since 4 ADione is the parent horomone of most prohoromnes, once this compound is classified illegal, which the USFA is in the process of organizing, then all prohormones derived from this parent horomone will be reclasified as illegal anabolic steroids. 4ADione? This is a crock. 1-test does not convert. 1/ad converts directly to 1-test. 19 Nor(dione or diol) converts to nandrolene. 4-ad converts to Testosterone. 1,4 Andro converts to Boldenone. These are the major PH's. USFA is not trying to get anything banned!! The USFA is either really stupid or just on the side of the feds and the anti-andro legislators. This could not be further from the truth! Either way VPX doesn't want any part of this ludicrous, Pat Arnold-induced self-serving charade. Of cource Patty supports the USFA because their admitted agenda is to do away with 1-TEST. When this happens Arnold will be sitting pretty with his useless 1-AD. Again not true. And 1-ad is IMO the best oral out now.
	www.sbmuscle.com

06-23-2003, 07:58 AM	#13
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	Fat salaries? USFA is a not for profit org. But all I hear is "blah vlah blah, politics, blah blah." There is still not a single shred of evidence that VPX has done OR IS DOING anything to stop the ban. You haven't even argued this, just said that it won't support a corrupt organization. If it is the heralded leader, then shouldn't it be doinf comething? ANYTHING???
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

06-23-2003, 08:07 AM	#14
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,477	Again VPX was first to do a four page spread in the current issue Human Muscle and Performance Magazine to support the USFA that goes against anti-prohormone legislation. Rick Collins of steroidlaw.com who founded this organization, lied and told VPX that they would be included as members in the anti-andro USFA due to this trend setting, high priced article. VPX spent over $15,000 on a four-page spread with unreal graphics, a swat team with automatic weapons and models a photography crew and payed models and laborers thousands of dollars to pass out a record breaking 40,000 publications at the Arnold Classic. VPX DELIVERED 175,000 MAGS WITH THE COVER AND A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE INSIDE DEVOTED TO THE ANTI-ANDRO CAUSE. YOU ARE SILLY IF YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT A MONUMENTAL FINANCIAL AND PHYSICAL WORK-RELATED COMITTMENT THIS TAKES. THIS IS FAR MORE INVOLVEMENT THAN ALL THE OTHER SUPPLEMNTS COMPANIES COMBINED!
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. VPX Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

06-23-2003, 08:26 AM	#15
1Fast400 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Burlington, NC 27215 Posts: 278	You guys are so sad. People standing on the sidelines, thinking they know what they are talking about. Figuring I'm an officer of the USFA, I know more about this situation than any of you. I can assure you, your perceived "facts" are very wrong. So sad a few idiots can take a rumor and spread it so fast this day in time.
	Former owner: www.BulkNutrition.com www.1Fast400.com

06-23-2003, 08:27 AM	#16
1Fast400 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Burlington, NC 27215 Posts: 278	The ad they did was nothing more than an ad for their stuff. How does it cost 15k to run an article in a magazine that you own?
	Former owner: www.BulkNutrition.com www.1Fast400.com

06-23-2003, 09:35 AM	#20
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,477	TP, 1-Fast, Dg.... I am very reluctant to carry on this dialogue because the responses, although paraphrased by me, are not actually COMING from me. I am speaking with reps of VPX and they are giving me their words/feelings on the matter. Truth is, this is NOT my area of expertise and I don't really have time for it. I am a fitness/nutrition/supplement expert and not a politician. I'd like to leave this disscussion to those that are really involved. This is not part of my job and I don't want it to be.
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. VPX Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

06-23-2003, 10:13 AM	#21
1Fast400 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Burlington, NC 27215 Posts: 278	Then you shouldn't speak those words as if they were your on. Taking crap information and having a good guy spread it still makes the information crap, just remember that.
	Former owner: www.BulkNutrition.com www.1Fast400.com