Supplement experiment...

**gopro** · 06-30-2003, 06:16 AM

I am about to experiment with the Avant Labs product Lipoderm-Y. I asked Twin Peak which topical he thought would have a more dramatic effect for me and he suggested this product. I am going to give it a fair trial and of course I will keep all of you up to date on my progress (or lack thereof).

Robboe · 06-30-2003, 07:22 AM

Which areas of application?

**gopro** · 06-30-2003, 07:33 AM

Lower abdominal and lower back area. Since I am experimenting this year with a low to zero cardio approach these are the only areas that I worry about. My definition comes out in all other areas through dieting, however, it has always taken a good amount of cardio in the past to get my lower back "christmas tree" and my lower abs to the level of my mid and upper.

**dg806** · 06-30-2003, 09:35 AM

You still must create a calorie deficit or the mobilized fat will redeposit. It still takes proper diet, cardio or both!

**gopro** · 06-30-2003, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dg806
You still must create a calorie deficit or the mobilized fat will redeposit. It still takes proper diet, cardio or both!

Dude...who are you talking to here

**Mudge** · 06-30-2003, 10:41 AM

Insert "dur" here

**gopro** · 06-30-2003, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mudge
Insert "dur" here

Thanks for adding that, LOL!!

**dg806** · 06-30-2003, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gopro
Dude...who are you talking to here

Wasn't exactly meant toward you.

DaMayor · 06-30-2003, 12:59 PM

I thought DG's comment was an informative addition for the general public.

Ain't that what this joint is all about?

Twin Peak · 06-30-2003, 02:16 PM

Just saw this. I'd like to add that, for a variety of reasons, Ab-Solved is the better abdminal fat mobilizer for MOST people. Ask Jodi.

That said, I explained the science of each, as well as the correlating science behind why people store fat the way we do, to GoPro. Much of this, I am sure he already knew.

Most abdominal fat on most people is a result of cortisol. This is what Ab-Solved targets.

However, after discussing this with GP, based on his previous dieting tendencies and the way he described is fat storage (as above) it seemed like it was more likely that he was storing fat there due to "stubborn fat", as opposed to cortisol. This is what Lipo was designed for.

Also, Lipo often causes some transient water retention, concomittently with the fat loss. So, often people do not notice results until a week or two off the product.

All of this was discussed with GP prior to his purchase.

In any event, this should be interesting. I know of no other time where an Avant product (or any other for that matter) was "tested" and journaled by a rep of another company.

**Mudge** · 06-30-2003, 02:22 PM

Some of it is related to circulation in the area, but genetically speaking most men store it in the gut region. The theory I have heard is that this is natural because if it were on the arms/legs then it would cause mobility problems. Plus as a side bennefit it helps keep the core of the body warm.

**gopro** · 07-01-2003, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DaMayor
I thought DG's comment was an informative addition for the general public.

Ain't that what this joint is all about?

Sure it is! The comment just seemed to be directed toward me as this was a thread that I started and one that is about a "personal" experiment based on my personal program. Not that I'm mad at dg or anything as I am sure he had the best of intentions...I was really just busting his balls.

**gopro** · 07-01-2003, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Twin Peak
Just saw this. I'd like to add that, for a variety of reasons, Ab-Solved is the better abdminal fat mobilizer for MOST people. Ask Jodi.

That said, I explained the science of each, as well as the correlating science behind why people store fat the way we do, to GoPro. Much of this, I am sure he already knew.

Most abdominal fat on most people is a result of cortisol. This is what Ab-Solved targets.

However, after discussing this with GP, based on his previous dieting tendencies and the way he described is fat storage (as above) it seemed like it was more likely that he was storing fat there due to "stubborn fat", as opposed to cortisol. This is what Lipo was designed for.

Also, Lipo often causes some transient water retention, concomittently with the fat loss. So, often people do not notice results until a week or two off the product.

All of this was discussed with GP prior to his purchase.

In any event, this should be interesting. I know of no other time where an Avant product (or any other for that matter) was "tested" and journaled by a rep of another company.

Like TP said, we did discuss the various fat burning topicals put out by avant. Also as he pointed out, I am quite aware of why we store fat, etc, but I was not aware of which product in the avant line was meant for what purpose. And for this, TP is the "go to guy."

I have used topical products before for contest prep with the only good results coming from a former SAN product called Lipoburn. Of course, no topical fat burner is going to produce miracles, but I'm curious to see how the Avant product stands up.

My bodyfat is around 8 % at the moment and my intention is to hit around 3% in several months.

What I plan to do is for the next few weeks is to keep my program AS IS in order to really see what Lipoderm can do. My mind is completely open, so it will be interesting. I do of course hope that is works great!!

DaMayor · 07-01-2003, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gopro
Sure it is! The comment just seemed to be directed toward me as this was a thread that I started and one that is about a "personal" experiment based on my personal program. Not that I'm mad at dg or anything as I am sure he had the best of intentions...I was really just busting his balls.

I didn't interpret your response as anger, I just thought it might be misunderstood by those new to the site......who aren't familiar with the 'diversity' of personalities here.

In reference to your post below, how healthy is 3%BF?

**Mudge** · 07-01-2003, 12:32 PM

I think science recognizes 5-6% about the "healthy" breaking point for males, but if someone were that low naturally, then maybe its "ok."

Twin Peak · 07-01-2003, 12:35 PM

Since when has competitive bodybuilding ever been healthy?

**dg806** · 07-01-2003, 01:16 PM

TP is correct. BF between 3 & 5% on top of being dehydrated at contest time is very unhealthy. You can't stay that way very long or you risk health problems.

**Mudge** · 07-01-2003, 01:53 PM

Pros are known for not intaking water for 24-36 hours before a competition, Momo Benaziza died from this. He was short, so he pushed his luck on trying to come in ultra ripped and vascular.

**gopro** · 07-01-2003, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Twin Peak
Since when has competitive bodybuilding ever been healthy?

Very true statement. 3% bodyfat is not a healthy level, but it looks damn good on stage, LOL. But seriously, it is a level of conditioning that I will hold only for competing, although I DO plan at staying around 7% year around from now on.

lean_n_76er · 07-01-2003, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Twin Peak
Just saw this. I'd like to add that, for a variety of reasons, Ab-Solved is the better abdminal fat mobilizer for MOST people. Ask Jodi.

That said, I explained the science of each, as well as the correlating science behind why people store fat the way we do, to GoPro. Much of this, I am sure he already knew.

Most abdominal fat on most people is a result of cortisol. This is what Ab-Solved targets.

However, after discussing this with GP, based on his previous dieting tendencies and the way he described is fat storage (as above) it seemed like it was more likely that he was storing fat there due to "stubborn fat", as opposed to cortisol. This is what Lipo was designed for.

Also, Lipo often causes some transient water retention, concomittently with the fat loss. So, often people do not notice results until a week or two off the product.

All of this was discussed with GP prior to his purchase.

In any event, this should be interesting. I know of no other time where an Avant product (or any other for that matter) was "tested" and journaled by a rep of another company.

Going out on the "STUPID" limb here, but is this product (Ab-Solved) for anyone just trying to rid the fat or should it be used for comp only?

Twin Peak · 07-02-2003, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lean_n_76er
Going out on the "STUPID" limb here, but is this product (Ab-Solved) for anyone just trying to rid the fat or should it be used for comp only?

Ab-Solved is designed to reduce abdominal fat by anyone who is in a hypocaloric state (i.e. a diet or cut).

It will work at any BF%, but will be most effective if used by people who have trouble with abdominal fat, in particular.

Twin Peak · 07-02-2003, 07:45 AM

BTW, GoPro has decided to use Lipoderm-Y, for a variety of reasons I discussed above. Jodi has used Ab-Solved with significant effects.

**gopro** · 07-02-2003, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Twin Peak
BTW, GoPro has decided to use Lipoderm-Y, for a variety of reasons I discussed above. Jodi has used Ab-Solved with significant effects.

TP, you may be interested to know that I am putting my sister on Absolved. This way I can document the effects of that product as well. And also, I put one other client on the Lipoderm, and will be doing an experiment with Leptigen as well.

(Better not tell Jack about this, LOL)

Twin Peak · 07-02-2003, 08:28 AM

Interesting.

So, Eric, details. Did you start? If so when? Will you be going purely by sight/visual or are you taking measurements?

Is your client that is using Lipo a female? I'd rather see a female using it on hips/thighs.

Also, where did you purchase them from?

**gopro** · 07-02-2003, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Twin Peak
Interesting.

So, Eric, details. Did you start? If so when? Will you be going purely by sight/visual or are you taking measurements?

Is your client that is using Lipo a female? I'd rather see a female using it on hips/thighs.

Also, where did you purchase them from?

Starting this Saturday on myself. I will take measurements and go by visual reference.

My sister will use Absolved on her stomach and my client is a male and will use the Lipo on his abs and love handle area.

Purchased straight from Avant.

06-30-2003, 06:16 AM	#1
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,499	Supplement experiment... I am about to experiment with the Avant Labs product Lipoderm-Y. I asked Twin Peak which topical he thought would have a more dramatic effect for me and he suggested this product. I am going to give it a fair trial and of course I will keep all of you up to date on my progress (or lack thereof).
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. VPX Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

06-30-2003, 07:22 AM	#2
Robboe Designer Supplements Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Newcastle Posts: 5,151	Which areas of application?
	Being held down by The Man

06-30-2003, 07:33 AM	#3
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,499	Lower abdominal and lower back area. Since I am experimenting this year with a low to zero cardio approach these are the only areas that I worry about. My definition comes out in all other areas through dieting, however, it has always taken a good amount of cardio in the past to get my lower back "christmas tree" and my lower abs to the level of my mid and upper.
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. VPX Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

06-30-2003, 09:35 AM	#4
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 17,160	You still must create a calorie deficit or the mobilized fat will redeposit. It still takes proper diet, cardio or both!
	www.sbmuscle.com

06-30-2003, 10:41 AM	#6
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,997 Photos: 1	Insert "dur" here
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

06-30-2003, 12:59 PM	#9
DaMayor On a Perpetual Bulk Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Here. Posts: 5,996	I thought DG's comment was an informative addition for the general public. Ain't that what this joint is all about?

06-30-2003, 02:16 PM	#10
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	Just saw this. I'd like to add that, for a variety of reasons, Ab-Solved is the better abdminal fat mobilizer for MOST people. Ask Jodi. That said, I explained the science of each, as well as the correlating science behind why people store fat the way we do, to GoPro. Much of this, I am sure he already knew. Most abdominal fat on most people is a result of cortisol. This is what Ab-Solved targets. However, after discussing this with GP, based on his previous dieting tendencies and the way he described is fat storage (as above) it seemed like it was more likely that he was storing fat there due to "stubborn fat", as opposed to cortisol. This is what Lipo was designed for. Also, Lipo often causes some transient water retention, concomittently with the fat loss. So, often people do not notice results until a week or two off the product. All of this was discussed with GP prior to his purchase. In any event, this should be interesting. I know of no other time where an Avant product (or any other for that matter) was "tested" and journaled by a rep of another company.
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

06-30-2003, 02:22 PM	#11
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,997 Photos: 1	Some of it is related to circulation in the area, but genetically speaking most men store it in the gut region. The theory I have heard is that this is natural because if it were on the arms/legs then it would cause mobility problems. Plus as a side bennefit it helps keep the core of the body warm.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

07-01-2003, 12:32 PM	#15
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,997 Photos: 1	I think science recognizes 5-6% about the "healthy" breaking point for males, but if someone were that low naturally, then maybe its "ok."
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

07-01-2003, 12:35 PM	#16
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	Since when has competitive bodybuilding ever been healthy?
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

07-01-2003, 01:16 PM	#17
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 17,160	TP is correct. BF between 3 & 5% on top of being dehydrated at contest time is very unhealthy. You can't stay that way very long or you risk health problems.
	www.sbmuscle.com

07-01-2003, 01:53 PM	#18
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,997 Photos: 1	Pros are known for not intaking water for 24-36 hours before a competition, Momo Benaziza died from this. He was short, so he pushed his luck on trying to come in ultra ripped and vascular.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

07-02-2003, 07:45 AM	#22
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	BTW, GoPro has decided to use Lipoderm-Y, for a variety of reasons I discussed above. Jodi has used Ab-Solved with significant effects.
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

07-02-2003, 08:28 AM	#24
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	Interesting. So, Eric, details. Did you start? If so when? Will you be going purely by sight/visual or are you taking measurements? Is your client that is using Lipo a female? I'd rather see a female using it on hips/thighs. Also, where did you purchase them from?
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com