I need a solution

**tk...** · 08-24-2003, 10:51 PM

i have joined this site cuz i am in desperate need of some help. I am 21 and have been traning for the last 3 years, 5.9 170 pounds and naturally cuts (thanks to god himself), i trained 5 to 6 times a weeks and eat like crazy!...

i guess my point is that i have hit a plateau. I have been trying to get over this hurdle for a while with no success. I have tried creatine, glutamine, weight gainers, nitric oxide, protein....And nothing really significant to get me over this hump.

I have been looking into pro-hormones as a solution..BUT!!!!!
Considering that i have completed my biology 1 and 2 classes and have taking a biochemistry class, i must say that with all my knowledge on the field, i am more then scared and edgy about hormones...

Prohormones seem to be a little better for me..I have looked up androstenedione and have concluded that the side effects are still pretty big for me ( MPB, acne,deepening of voice, increase in prostatem,sterility etc....) after hours of ressearchiing i found that 19-norandrostenedione has all the same benefits as the andro but with 80 % less side effects as far as estrogene goes..

What do u guys think about 19-norandrostenedione( 100mg twice a day with 3 weeks on and 1 week off)...what should my results be and side effects? any other recomendations?

**ZECH** · 08-25-2003, 08:16 AM

You will need more than 200mg a day to see results.

**tk...** · 08-25-2003, 08:24 PM

i have realised that i need more than 200mg to get jacked, but i dont think that going over the required doses could be save for my health...

**Mudge** · 08-25-2003, 08:53 PM

I weigh a bit more than you, but I was dissapointed with basically no results on the suggested dose.

What is this health stuff you speak of? Perhaps if you could post a study for us.

**tk...** · 08-26-2003, 04:13 PM

i will try and find the study site as soon as possible, but if i remeber correctly andro itself causes acne, hair loss, increase prostate, deepening of the voice, increase facial and body hair, all in time with recomended doses...

but 19-norandro has supposidly the same benefits with about 80% less side effects than natural andro...this is with the sugested doses (200mg a day),,by increasing the doses, you also increase the %(20% of side effects now becomes 40% ingested in the blood stream if you double the doses) ...19norandro since it is not converted directly to testosterone (like andro), 19norandro block receptors sites, preventing the vast majority of eostrogene from firering...this is the reasoning behind the 80% decrease of side effects compared to andro, i will try to find the scientific proof to back it up soon..

but from what i have read in other threads, 200mg a day has very poor results if any...why is that? and from those that have used it and HAVE seen results how much mg are we talking about on a daily basis?

**RCfootball87** · 08-26-2003, 08:36 PM

Some people have seen good results from stacking both together. If you're that worried about side effects maybe stack 200 mg of 19nor with half the recomended dosage of regular andro. I Am not sure if half the andro dose would help more to the regular nor but personally when I reach the age when I'm old enough to safely take prohormones, if they're still legal, I'm going to stack.

**RCfootball87** · 08-26-2003, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by Mudge
I weigh a bit more than you, but I was dissapointed with basically no results on the suggested dose.

But you have to admit that historically you have a tendency to not respond to supplements that work for most (I.E. creatine).

**Mudge** · 08-26-2003, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by tk...
increase facial and body hair

Testosterone does that to you, as for deepening of the voice if you are on long term like Hulk Hogan then yes. Since I'm going to assume you aren't going to be on for the next 30 years, I would not worry about the voice from over the counter stuff.

As for body hair others can comment on that, I know that testosterone itself will absolutely increase body hair.

**Mudge** · 08-26-2003, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by RCfootball87
But you have to admit that historically you have a tendency to not respond to supplements that work for most (I.E. creatine).

I'm taking a rounded teaspoon of creatine this time to see what happens, but yeah I am not a big fan of many supplements. I figure I am doing around 15g of creatine, I will throw some in a teaspoon to see how much it is.

**tk...** · 08-26-2003, 08:56 PM

15 GRAMS!!!!!!!!!

a'm taking 10 grams and i though that was more then enough, but like u said different bodies react in different ways...

back to the topic though, has anybody taken 19nor before using more then 200mg a day...results and side effects would be appreciated..

**tk...** · 08-26-2003, 08:59 PM

another question: why isn't 200mg a day enough to see results, biologically it doesn't make any sense...?

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