Protein + Creatine + L-Glutamine

Alaric · 12-20-2003, 05:11 PM

Hi, I've got a couple questions...

For my post workout shake, is it ok to throw in the glutamine and plain creatine with my protein shake (also has 4 stawberries in it).
I understand that you should use grape juice in the morning before breakfast to get the creatine in your system, what about glutamine can I just drink it with water? Also, if I'm trying to just get plain creatine into my system without all the sugar, is it possible to just down it with water instead of the grape juice?

I'm currently bulking, and from what I've read so far this is how I'll be using my glutamine and creatine:

On days:
Glutamine: 30 mins before workout, after workout, before bed
Creatine: morning before breakfast, after workout

Off days:
Glutamine: before breakfast, before bed
Creatine: morning OR before bed

Will this be enough for my bulk?

Thanks in advance!

Randy · 12-20-2003, 05:49 PM

Alaric,

1. Protein
You should consume enough protein to equal your body weight daily. It is recommended to create a 5-6 meal daily schedule every 2-3 hours apart that includes roughly 45-50 grams of protein maximum until you satify your maximum intake.

2. Creatine
As for the monohydrate powder form generally you want to consume 10 grams daily on a 3 week on and 1 week off program.
Take 5 grams 30 minutes before workout, and 5 grams after workout.

3. L-Glutamine
Take minimum 5 grams daily. The best time to take it is after your workout. Some of the guys here say to take up to 15 grams.
They split it up 5 grams before workout, 5 grams after workout and 5 before bed.

All 3 of these can be taken together or seperate with water if you wish, or any other favorite drink.

Twin Peak · 12-22-2003, 08:33 AM

If you are bulking, you are wasting your money on glutamine. As for the creatine, chuck the grape juice and throw some dextrose in your post workout shake, it will have several benefits, namely:

* it will shuttle the creatine into the muscle cells
* it will replenish lost muscle glycogen stores
* it will cause an insulin spike, shutting down cortisol production

Randy · 12-22-2003, 12:53 PM

Why are you wasting your money with Glutamine if you are bulking? All the big bulkers here including Prince and Tank take L-Glutamine abundantly.

Also as far as insulin spike, why would you need that on post workout. I would think you benefit from an insulin spike on a pre-workout shake.

As for dextrose, many of the creatine suppliers provide that in the creatine. I don't think the brand I take contains it though...but sure works for me.

Twin Peak · 12-22-2003, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy
Why are you wasting your money with Glutamine if you are bulking? All the big bulkers here including Prince and Tank take L-Glutamine abundantly.

Really? Wow. That's a terrific reason to use it.

Now, care to tell me what its intended use would be for bulking, and just how it goes about doing whatever you believe its intended use to be.

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy Also as far as insulin spike, why would you need that on post workout.

Because the workout causes you to secret cortisol, causing you to enter a catabolic state. Insulin combats that, as insulin is an anabolic hormone.

Generally speaking catabolic bad, anabolic good.

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy I would think you benefit from an insulin spike on a pre-workout shake.

Really? Care to explain why?

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy As for dextrose, many of the creatine suppliers provide that in the creatine. I don't think the brand I take contains it though...but sure works for me.

Point being?

Randy · 12-22-2003, 01:23 PM

Twin,

Your turning this around on me.

I simply asked why bulkers are wasting their money using Glutamine?

Your the first person I ever heard say that. Based on my research, as well as the fact that that Tank and Prince are taking it... To me that is a very good reason to take it. I respect both of them and trust their knowledge and judgement my friend.

Twin Peak · 12-22-2003, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy
Twin,

Your turning this around on me.

I simply asked why bulkers are wasting their money using Glutamine?

Your the first person I ever heard say that. Based on my research, as well as the fact that that Tank and Prince are taking it... To me that is a very good reason to take it. I respect both of them and trust their knowledge and judgement my friend.

Just because person X takes substance Y doesn't mean that Y does shit.

And even if it does, if (1) you are going to be spending your money, and (2) your are going to be putting a substance in your body, you should know what for, and you should have some reasonable amount of certainty that it will do what you hope it will do.

The fact that glutamine in general is a waste of money for most people is not a new concept and I can point you to many studies showing why.

The fact that glutamine is particularly useless when bulking is even more well established, and recognized in the industry.

Randy · 12-22-2003, 01:30 PM

Thanks Twin....Very useful information

Twin Peak · 12-22-2003, 01:31 PM

Faulty logic and reasoning, drawing you to a false conclusion, is your loss, not mine.

Remember when you thought fish oil worthless?

Randy · 12-22-2003, 01:32 PM

I never said fish oil was worthless Twin...
I just have better things to do with my time than argue with you here

....

You have a great day my friend

Twin Peak · 12-22-2003, 01:42 PM

Correct, you never said worthless. Here is what you said:

Page 1 of the thread:

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy
But again TP - for those that are slim and healthy working out consistantly, are the benefits of taking fish oil substantial enough to justify taking it?

And again, page 1:

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy
The key word is more like benefit, rather than justify. They could hand out fish pills free of charge, but if the health benefits are very slim and I get fish burps, then why take em.

Then, the last post of the thread, you are handing out fish oil advice.

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy
300 sounds low.

I believe the way Jodi calculates your requirement is she adds both EPA/DHA to form a total. Then this total is generally recorded in Milligrams. Then take that milligram number and convert it to grams by moving the decimal to the left 3 places. Then take that number and divide it by 4. That will be how many pills you need to take. You want to take up to 4 grams a day I believe.

But splitting is definately better. This way it distributes the Omega3 throughout your body consistantly through the day in metered quantities. Many of these things work like vitamin C. Your body only takes what it needs and drops the rest. I'm not sure if that happens with fish oil, but even distribution makes more sense than dropping 10 pills in one sitting.

Interesting.

prolangtum · 12-22-2003, 02:15 PM

Wouldnt Layne love to see this. Many top Pros are huge despite their diet and supps, but that doesnt mean because Pro A takes it means you should, and you will get huge. Take nubain for example. Tom Prince use to be quite hooked on it, look at some old pics of him from a year or two ago. You can see the tracks running up his arm. Hes a big guy, so if we apply your logic, I guess we should all be baining up pre WO. It may seem like a far strecth, but it is the same way you linked glutamine and Prince and Tank, whoever they are.

Randy · 12-22-2003, 03:10 PM

prolangtum,

Sorry if you misunderstood my message, I think you've read into it much to deeply. I've been studying bodybuilding for years. This does not mean I am an expert, but I certainly do not take products just because Pro A takes it. I do thank you for your concern though

. While I did say that Pro A and Pro B take it, I surely have done my homework prior to my consumption. I am one who believes in the benefits of taking L-Glutamine. Now both you and Twin Peak are certainly entitled to your opinion. If you believe it's a waste of money, again that's up to you. I could have gone on and on with facts supporting the benefits of L-Glutamine to Twin, but personally I don't feel I need to waste my time doing that. I feel very comfortable with the products I take for the time being

.

prolangtum · 12-22-2003, 03:16 PM

too each his own, if you believe it works for you, by all means buy it

Randy · 12-22-2003, 03:30 PM

Thanks for your blessing prolangtum. It really means a lot

**Prince** · 12-22-2003, 03:35 PM

hey all of you "scientists" just remember that steroids were not anabolic until the late 1980's even though bodybuilders were using them for 30 years to get bigger and stronger.

Randy · 12-22-2003, 03:39 PM

Thanks for bringing this info to light Prince

Twin Peak · 12-22-2003, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
hey all of you "scientists" just remember that steroids were not anabolic until the late 1980's even though bodybuilders were using them for 30 years to get bigger and stronger.

Yeah, that's a relevant point to this discussion.

While certain groups did not recognize the anabolic properties of AAS, most certainly MANY scientists did, as far back as one can reasonably guess.

And this isn't about science. When I advised the thread starter to think twice before spending money on glutamine when bulking, Randy's excellent argument about why it was good was because you and Tank used it. Now, this is no disrespect to either of you, but that is a shitty argument, and you (Prince) know it.

I'd not want someone to say, use compound X because TP does. I'd want the person to understand why they are using it, and through what mechanism of action it would (supposedly) provide benefit.

That is all I have mentioned here.

And by the way, who in this thread has claimed to be a scientist?

**Prince** · 12-22-2003, 03:51 PM

Randy forgot to mention gopro along with Tank and myself!

I was just being sarcastic in the sense that it often takes science awhile longer to catch up with what "athletes" have already found to be worthwhile and effective.

Randy · 12-22-2003, 05:42 PM

Oh yeah, can't forget our ole pal Gopro

HoldDaMayo · 12-22-2003, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Twin Peak

The fact that glutamine is particularly useless when bulking is even more well established, and recognized in the industry.

no offense TP... but you just spent your time in this thread asking people to back up what they say... then you state this... wtf is this supposed to mean? seriously bro... if you're going to ask other people to back their statements up, don't go throwing around garbage BS like this...

Randy · 12-22-2003, 05:57 PM

LoL, Now this sounds like a great justification for your BS Twin

.
Come on now. Do you really believe that I am taking Glutamine just soley because Prince, Gopro, Tank, and many of the others are

.. I do have a brain Twin. You think just because I didn't justify it to you, this is all I based my decision from? I told you right from the beginning that I had more to do with my time than to justify my reasons to you. You will always find pros and cons to anything. It is up to you whether you go with a product or not. You made it clear that you are against the product and that's fine. Just don't be a prick to people that support it. And if it's an argument your after, you better search elsewhere. I have better things to do with my time bud.

And go ahead, take the last word...seems like your good at it

Quote:

Originally posted by Twin Peak
Yeah, that's a relevant point to this discussion.

While certain groups did not recognize the anabolic properties of AAS, most certainly MANY scientists did, as far back as one can reasonably guess.

And this isn't about science. When I advised the thread starter to think twice before spending money on glutamine when bulking, Randy's excellent argument about why it was good was because you and Tank used it. Now, this is no disrespect to either of you, but that is a shitty argument, and you (Prince) know it.

I'd not want someone to say, use compound X because TP does. I'd want the person to understand why they are using it, and through what mechanism of action it would (supposedly) provide benefit.

That is all I have mentioned here.

And by the way, who in this thread has claimed to be a scientist?

12-20-2003, 05:11 PM	#1
Alaric Hungry Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 711	Protein + Creatine + L-Glutamine Hi, I've got a couple questions... For my post workout shake, is it ok to throw in the glutamine and plain creatine with my protein shake (also has 4 stawberries in it). I understand that you should use grape juice in the morning before breakfast to get the creatine in your system, what about glutamine can I just drink it with water? Also, if I'm trying to just get plain creatine into my system without all the sugar, is it possible to just down it with water instead of the grape juice? I'm currently bulking, and from what I've read so far this is how I'll be using my glutamine and creatine: On days: Glutamine: 30 mins before workout, after workout, before bed Creatine: morning before breakfast, after workout Off days: Glutamine: before breakfast, before bed Creatine: morning OR before bed Will this be enough for my bulk? Thanks in advance!

12-20-2003, 05:49 PM	#2
Randy Woof! Woof! Woof! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: California Posts: 7,859 Photos: 4	Alaric, 1. Protein You should consume enough protein to equal your body weight daily. It is recommended to create a 5-6 meal daily schedule every 2-3 hours apart that includes roughly 45-50 grams of protein maximum until you satify your maximum intake. 2. Creatine As for the monohydrate powder form generally you want to consume 10 grams daily on a 3 week on and 1 week off program. Take 5 grams 30 minutes before workout, and 5 grams after workout. 3. L-Glutamine Take minimum 5 grams daily. The best time to take it is after your workout. Some of the guys here say to take up to 15 grams. They split it up 5 grams before workout, 5 grams after workout and 5 before bed. All 3 of these can be taken together or seperate with water if you wish, or any other favorite drink.
	- O F F I C I A L . L I N K . M A S T E R - Maintains a Reference to all Gopros P/RR/S Links Gopros latest routines: CLICK HERE Lift like a Chicken Look Like a Chicken

12-22-2003, 08:33 AM	#3
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	If you are bulking, you are wasting your money on glutamine. As for the creatine, chuck the grape juice and throw some dextrose in your post workout shake, it will have several benefits, namely: * it will shuttle the creatine into the muscle cells * it will replenish lost muscle glycogen stores * it will cause an insulin spike, shutting down cortisol production
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

12-22-2003, 12:53 PM	#4
Randy Woof! Woof! Woof! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: California Posts: 7,859 Photos: 4	Why are you wasting your money with Glutamine if you are bulking? All the big bulkers here including Prince and Tank take L-Glutamine abundantly. Also as far as insulin spike, why would you need that on post workout. I would think you benefit from an insulin spike on a pre-workout shake. As for dextrose, many of the creatine suppliers provide that in the creatine. I don't think the brand I take contains it though...but sure works for me. Last edited by Randy : 12-22-2003 at 01:04 PM.
	- O F F I C I A L . L I N K . M A S T E R - Maintains a Reference to all Gopros P/RR/S Links Gopros latest routines: CLICK HERE Lift like a Chicken Look Like a Chicken

12-22-2003, 01:23 PM	#6
Randy Woof! Woof! Woof! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: California Posts: 7,859 Photos: 4	Twin, Your turning this around on me. I simply asked why bulkers are wasting their money using Glutamine? Your the first person I ever heard say that. Based on my research, as well as the fact that that Tank and Prince are taking it... To me that is a very good reason to take it. I respect both of them and trust their knowledge and judgement my friend.
	- O F F I C I A L . L I N K . M A S T E R - Maintains a Reference to all Gopros P/RR/S Links Gopros latest routines: CLICK HERE Lift like a Chicken Look Like a Chicken

12-22-2003, 01:30 PM	#8
Randy Woof! Woof! Woof! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: California Posts: 7,859 Photos: 4	Thanks Twin....Very useful information
	- O F F I C I A L . L I N K . M A S T E R - Maintains a Reference to all Gopros P/RR/S Links Gopros latest routines: CLICK HERE Lift like a Chicken Look Like a Chicken

12-22-2003, 01:31 PM	#9
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,967	Faulty logic and reasoning, drawing you to a false conclusion, is your loss, not mine. Remember when you thought fish oil worthless?
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

12-22-2003, 01:32 PM	#10
Randy Woof! Woof! Woof! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: California Posts: 7,859 Photos: 4	I never said fish oil was worthless Twin... I just have better things to do with my time than argue with you here .... You have a great day my friend
	- O F F I C I A L . L I N K . M A S T E R - Maintains a Reference to all Gopros P/RR/S Links Gopros latest routines: CLICK HERE Lift like a Chicken Look Like a Chicken

12-22-2003, 02:15 PM	#12
prolangtum Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 353	Wouldnt Layne love to see this. Many top Pros are huge despite their diet and supps, but that doesnt mean because Pro A takes it means you should, and you will get huge. Take nubain for example. Tom Prince use to be quite hooked on it, look at some old pics of him from a year or two ago. You can see the tracks running up his arm. Hes a big guy, so if we apply your logic, I guess we should all be baining up pre WO. It may seem like a far strecth, but it is the same way you linked glutamine and Prince and Tank, whoever they are.
	Mod @ Bulknutrition Forums Mod @ superiormuscle.com Mod @ steroidsupport.com Designersupps.com Bulknutrition.com Blackstarlabs.com

12-22-2003, 03:10 PM	#13
Randy Woof! Woof! Woof! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: California Posts: 7,859 Photos: 4	prolangtum, Sorry if you misunderstood my message, I think you've read into it much to deeply. I've been studying bodybuilding for years. This does not mean I am an expert, but I certainly do not take products just because Pro A takes it. I do thank you for your concern though . While I did say that Pro A and Pro B take it, I surely have done my homework prior to my consumption. I am one who believes in the benefits of taking L-Glutamine. Now both you and Twin Peak are certainly entitled to your opinion. If you believe it's a waste of money, again that's up to you. I could have gone on and on with facts supporting the benefits of L-Glutamine to Twin, but personally I don't feel I need to waste my time doing that. I feel very comfortable with the products I take for the time being .
	- O F F I C I A L . L I N K . M A S T E R - Maintains a Reference to all Gopros P/RR/S Links Gopros latest routines: CLICK HERE Lift like a Chicken Look Like a Chicken

12-22-2003, 03:16 PM	#14
prolangtum Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 353	too each his own, if you believe it works for you, by all means buy it
	Mod @ Bulknutrition Forums Mod @ superiormuscle.com Mod @ steroidsupport.com Designersupps.com Bulknutrition.com Blackstarlabs.com

12-22-2003, 03:30 PM	#15
Randy Woof! Woof! Woof! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: California Posts: 7,859 Photos: 4	Thanks for your blessing prolangtum. It really means a lot
	- O F F I C I A L . L I N K . M A S T E R - Maintains a Reference to all Gopros P/RR/S Links Gopros latest routines: CLICK HERE Lift like a Chicken Look Like a Chicken

12-22-2003, 03:35 PM	#16
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,738 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	hey all of you "scientists" just remember that steroids were not anabolic until the late 1980's even though bodybuilders were using them for 30 years to get bigger and stronger.
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips! HumaneVoLabs - Foaming Transdermal Delivery System.

12-22-2003, 03:39 PM	#17
Randy Woof! Woof! Woof! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: California Posts: 7,859 Photos: 4	Thanks for bringing this info to light Prince
	- O F F I C I A L . L I N K . M A S T E R - Maintains a Reference to all Gopros P/RR/S Links Gopros latest routines: CLICK HERE Lift like a Chicken Look Like a Chicken

12-22-2003, 03:51 PM	#19
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,738 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	Randy forgot to mention gopro along with Tank and myself! I was just being sarcastic in the sense that it often takes science awhile longer to catch up with what "athletes" have already found to be worthwhile and effective.
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips! HumaneVoLabs - Foaming Transdermal Delivery System.

12-22-2003, 05:42 PM	#20
Randy Woof! Woof! Woof! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: California Posts: 7,859 Photos: 4	Oh yeah, can't forget our ole pal Gopro
	- O F F I C I A L . L I N K . M A S T E R - Maintains a Reference to all Gopros P/RR/S Links Gopros latest routines: CLICK HERE Lift like a Chicken Look Like a Chicken