VPX Products: Warning

Testosterone · 12-25-2003, 02:40 PM

Another one that rates high on my scammer list. I'm well aware that we get lots of questions about these products so if any should pop up, feel free to refer them to this post.

VPX is yet another company that delights in jeopardizing the legal status of prohormones by making their stuff sound like steroids. Both names are modelled after the popular nandrolone decanoate product Deca-Durabolin, and the first combine with Para from Parabolan and the second with var from anavar or nilevar. All popular black market steroids. And you would trust these people to have your best interest at heart ? Now what kind of example are we setting for our young ones with giving them their first taste of steroids by introducing them this way ? What if they hear names of steroids and see daddy is taking Decavar ... They'll think you are a crook.

But the products themselves are no better quality in muscle gain therefor. Before I get into these two products individually, I would like to adress this liposomal delivery system. Now this is a sublingual techniques where they claim to have made them fat-soluble and that orals and cyclos are not fat-soluble. Ok, Now listen carefully, this is important. Prohormones are steroidogenic. that means they are made from the product cholesterol, which is the prime storage of FAT for energy. Now personally I can't think of anything more Fat-soluble than fat, can you ? That means orals are highly fat-soluble. Cyclo's are not and with reason. To get a prohormone to absorb sublingually you need it to pass the sebaceous mucus gland. This gland is "hydrophyllic" or water-loving. That means a fat-soluble substance cannot pass through very well. What cyclo does is coat the prohormone. the inside of the cyclo is lipophyllic meaning its easy to attach the prohormone inside, but the outside is hydrophyllic meaning the whole thing (cyclo-prohormone) becomes water-soluble and can pass through the gland into the blood at a high rate. Now these guys use sublingual (lipojection they call it) technology as well, but they went through all this trouble ti make it lipophyllic ? Which it already was ? That means this stuff has lower efficacy than an oral.

Looking at sublingual technology its also important that you note that the ceiling of delivery has been established at 25 mg of prohormones (higher serum levels than 50 mg, tested at Eastern Michigan university)That means if you get 1 mg of this stuff inside you, its a lot. The effective dose starts at 250-300 mg. Something worth considering. Not that it helps much with what's in it.

Paradeca is a product using this technology to bring you : Nor-diol, 4AD and androtriol. I'll give you the first two, when delivered properly are great prohormones. But androtriol ? This stuff isn't even active in the body, much less anabolic. What kind of crap is that ? Somebody needs to do their chemistry homework. Now here are some interesting excerpts from the VPX promo's :

After entering the bloodstream, a powerful pharmacological phenomena medically known as pharmacokinetics occurs when PARADECA’S multilayered phospholipids naturally break down dispersing billions of prohormone and phytochemical molecules into the body. These substances potentially influence luteinizing action, antiaromatase activity, increase receptor affinity and also allow the intrinsic action of 19 Norandrostenediol, 4-androstenediol and ANDROTRIOL to take place

Phenomenon known as pharmacokinetics ? That literally means every pharmacological substance that has any effect in the body. I think their terminology needs some work too. Now supplying fats normally will give you higher T-levels. But supplying it with 4AD which inhibits the action of the natural T-axis will actually give you some really bad results on your next cholesterol check. What it will not do is inhibit aromatase action (if it even delivered the 4AD there would be an increase in estrogenic output), as expressed earlier luteinizing action is diminished severely and not stimulated, and if they wanted to increase receptor affinity they should have come up with a hydrosomal delivery method instead. All this goes to show that this stuff is utter crap, and utter expensive craps. i will give it to you right here, black on white, that this will give you NO GAINS for ONLY 100+ dollars at the cheapest. Good luck.

NowDecavar is very similar in that it also contains inactive ingredients like androtriol and an inferior method of delivery, this one also contains : Tribulus and both flavones of methoxy. Now methoxyisoflavone is absolutely useless, this has been shown many times. All tests even claiming it works were done in-house, on rats by the manufacturing company (Chinoin) and date back to 1985. that's what i would call outdated. Most of the info out there now is still based on a 1977 patent application. It simply does not work and new research recently published in MD showed that it may be potentially harmful to health and gains. Ipriflavone is even worse. Chinoin tested many flavones before making methoxy, including ipriflavone, and even they deemed it unworthy. here is a company that patented and marketed the worst crap in the history of the industry, and they deemed this stuff unworthy. Does that make you want to take it ? Ok, tribulus maybe. Well, if you are over 40 and are looking for an easy way to get a boner, trib is for you. But you'd still need 1500-2000 mg. As for anabolic properties, trib is very limited in its actions and will do you no good, especially if you are a young athlete looking for the maximum of gains.

In conclusion I have to warn you that similar products containing only methoxy and an ECA stack also named after a steroid were also grossly marketed by this same company, so beware. Apart from the fact that these guys too are very creative in advertising, i have to deem this one as the top of my scammer list. They definitely need some lessons in biochem and terminology and need to get some facts straight. Their complex words (at least to newbies) make it hard to see through their facade for rookies, but those who have been around will tell you what crap this really is.

So please, my warning to you, avoid this company and anything it touches. They are a mockery to this industry and everything our sport stands for. And they have the guts to sell you this crap for only hundreds of dollars when the base compound for a single bottle costs no more than 8-10 dollars to make. That has to make you wonder. Unfortunately there are still those who equate price with quality, well in this business, i'd say think again.

Testosterone · 12-25-2003, 02:52 PM

The above comments are from Big Cat from BBdotcom.

Randy · 12-25-2003, 02:56 PM

Doesn't Gopro promote VPX products?

Testosterone · 12-25-2003, 03:05 PM

Yeah He does. He had a share fair of his fairytales to say in other boards also but this is ineveitable.
VPX is Muscletech in making!
Why blame others ?

oaktownboy · 12-25-2003, 03:08 PM

Big Cat is a well known expert on PH and steroid-derived compounds.

Randy · 12-25-2003, 03:10 PM

I don't believe in any of that stuff myself Testosterone. I think most of it is a waste of money. People get attracted by the fancy marketing pictures on the bottles. They see big muscles draped around a bottle and they think it's the miracle solution for muscle mass

. I'm sure there are some products that help, but I guess I am just old fashioned. I take the known good products that body builders have been taking for years... Like creatine, protein, glutamine, zma, and basic vitamins...

That is all I need.
Well in addition to a good diet and hard lifting.

Testosterone · 12-25-2003, 03:12 PM

Thats exactly I mean to say.
I hope this clears "The Air"
I hope everybody knows something else about VPX products.

**Dale Mabry** · 12-25-2003, 09:20 PM

I know their Micellean MRP is the best for what I am doing, never tried their prohormones.

plouffe · 12-25-2003, 09:33 PM

GOPRO BIATCH THEM OUT!

plouffe · 12-25-2003, 09:34 PM

hahaha

Flex · 12-25-2003, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy
They see big muscles draped around a bottle and they think it's the miracle cure for muscle mass

.

EXACTLY!

nicely put Randy.

Bottom line..........people want the easy way out. they want a miracle pill or powder that will instantly turn them into "Supermen" like the guys in the MusclTech ads ("Lee Priest looked like this before [fat ass MF'er who gets maaad outta shape in the offseason] and then after taking MuscleTech, VOILA [shredded and in contest shape])

the arguement goes both ways though.

obviously you gotta blame the companies (VPX, Muscletech) etc. for blatantly "false advertising" their products. Chris Cormier did NOT get like that from taking Cell-Tech. Every ad in FLEX mag. is BS.

on the other hand, we should take a look at the Gov't. for some reason, i guess cuz of the lack of scientific evidence to both prove and disprove results, but for whatever reason they don't "look" and "judge" supps. like they do with normal foods. i would think if the gov't was so against prohormones, they'd try to get some evidence to back up why.....instead of "they are like steroids" (which the gov't knows little about).

i guess what i'm trying to say is....why doesnt teh gov. treat supps. like cigarettes and alcohol. decades ago, the Marlboro man was made to look godlike. people looked at that and were amazed with his "manliness" etc. then teh gov't stepped in, and put warnings on the side. Now, cigarette companies are allowed to advertise, but not with the "glamorizing" shit they used back in the day, as they are flooded with Gov't warnings.

Same with alcohol. People know that alcohol is not good for you, BUT, at the same time, they know that they can purchase it and know EXACTLY what it does to your body (in other words, they know when they drink they'll get drunk. instead of thinking when they drink they are gonna look like Chris Cormier)...

The Gov't is honeslty retarded for banning prohormones. IMO steroids shouldnt even be illegal. Cigarettes and Alcohol have killed 99% more people than steroids, yet for some reason people can smoke and drink their lives away...........

david · 12-25-2003, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Flex

The Gov't is honeslty retarded for banning prohormones. IMO steroids shouldnt even be illegal. Cigarettes and Alcohol have killed 99% more people than steroids, yet for some reason people can smoke and drink their lives away...........

I'd have to agree with that too and the statistics are off the wall to those who died or ruined their lives from cigarettes and alcohol.

But on another note, VPX and the "false claims or exaggerations" so on...

Well, I wouldn't limit it to just VPX and Muscletech. Why not include ALL supplement companies because they make far worse claims than the imaginable?

Randy · 12-25-2003, 11:33 PM

I agree as well, and that has been the steroid users favorite comparison, "Why are cigarrettes and alcohol legal, but steroids are not?"

But you can buy illegal drugs right from the internet. The internet black hole in which the government apparantly still does not know how to control. But then again do we want their control? Well that is a whole new topic? I think it is much easier for these supplement companies to pass false claims and bogus products through the internet than anywhere else. But they will do it direct as well as long as they get away with it. Well they're not getting my money for their bogus garbage.

gopro · 12-26-2003, 09:36 AM

This was an old post put out by Big Cat who is a very well respected expert on many topics related to bodybuilding. I think that in general Big Cat is an excellent educator and writer on all bodybuilding topics and has done well for this industry.

That said, what he says in the above post is a CROCK OF SH%T!

VPX is THE most attacked company on the planet...bar none. Do you know why??? Jealousy!!!!!!!!!!!! When you are on top, EVERYONE and their mother tries to knock you off! How do they ALWAYS do it? Not by talking about their own products, but by trying to ruin the good name of VPX. Its just like politicians do...you see smear campaigns like this all of the time..."he did this...she did that...he sucks...she sucks!" Its childish and pathetic!

They talk about the names of VPX products "mirroring" that of steroids and how THAT is why they will soon be banned. Please...give me a break! Yeah, and that is why ephedra was banned and why the gov't would even like to regulate proteins and amino acids! Not to mention that there are dozens of companies out there that market their products with "steroid like names!" But do you hear one word about them? Nope, not a one! Why? They are not on top!

Are VPXs prices a bit higher than most? Yup...but they also use the finest raw materials and the finest manufacturing processes. BMW costs more than Toyota and that is b/c BMW outperforms Toyota on the road. Things that are better cost more...period!

As far as the liposomal delivery system and the polylipid delivery system...they can argue all they want (probably b/c they are pissed they did not come out with it on their own), but the stuff works plain and simple! Lipsomal delivery is a legitimate way to get many compounds into the system more efficiently and polylipid delivery is an improvement on it. Paradeca, the first liposomal delivery product became VPXs first multi-million dollar seller (and still sells well today with no advertising spent on it) b/c people use it, found it to work very well, and reordered it! Yes, liposomes suck but transdermal is perfect...please! Wrong!

Yes, I work for VPX...I started here a few months ago, however, I carried VPX in my gym for years before I worked at this amazing company. I trained clients from beginners to national level bodybuilders and athletes, and I put every one of them on one or more VPX products. Quality is quality. What works, works! VPX is top of the line, quality products that WORK...BIG TIME!! Stop your bitching and deal with it...VPX is GROWING and will continue to because along with a few other companies, they put out the best sports nutrition products on the planet. Period!

prolangtum · 12-26-2003, 09:42 AM

Although some of VPX's ads are over the top, and their products are overpriced (I know many companies who get the creme de la creme of raw materials too) they are not crap. They will work. Marketing aside, they do carry a decent array of products. Oh no, I agreed with GoPro.

Mark it down, Decemeber 26, 2003, 9:45 am CST.

gopro · 12-26-2003, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by prolangtum
Although some of VPX's ads are over the top, and their products are overpriced (I know many companies who get the creme de la creme of raw materials too) they are not crap. They will work. Marketing aside, they do carry a decent array of products. Oh no, I agreed with GoPro.

Mark it down, Decemeber 26, 2003, 9:45 am CST.

Oh my God it IS Christmas!

Testosterone · 12-26-2003, 10:16 AM

If that is so, then whats wrong with Biotest?
GoPro must understand that there are chinks in every armour as far as Supplement Industry is concerned.
I read that WHOLE THREAD which consisted about 7 odd pages!

No matter how supreme their products are - VPX products are OVERPRICED.

Just for an example: VPX Micellean (Micellar Casein)

Its the costliest protein on planet. I dunno how much you guys are buying that for !!

VPX buys it @ $5/Lb

(That's True)

Supreme quality need not be overpriced. Ask ON for that!

gopro · 12-26-2003, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Testosterone
If that is so, then whats wrong with Biotest?
GoPro must understand that there are chinks in every armour as far as Supplement Industry is concerned.
I read that WHOLE THREAD which consisted about 7 odd pages!

No matter how supreme their products are - VPX products are OVERPRICED.

Just for an example: VPX Micellean (Micellar Casein)

Its the costliest protein on planet. I dunno how much you guys are buying that for !!

VPX buys it @ $5/Lb

(That's True)

Supreme quality need not be overpriced. Ask ON for that!

DPS Nutrition:

VPX Micellean 2 lbs $29.50
Moleclar Nutrition Sustained Protein 2 lbs $30.99

Oops, guess VPX isn't the most expensive on the planet.

nacnac972 · 12-26-2003, 10:57 AM

All I know is that in 26 days I gained 10 lbs from syngex I and II.It was exspensive but I got great results on my first PH cycle.The sides that i got included nothing at all!!!!!My friend is my size(not to say are bodies are the same)and was on the same diet and gained 5 solid pounds from S1+.He cant wait to try VPXs products.All I say is everybody responds differently so give you opinons and use what you like.Oh 1 more thing GP whatever company is on top like my company everybody hates you.JUst like in sports.everybody wants to see the champs fall.

Testosterone · 12-26-2003, 10:58 AM

I don't give Molecular Nutrition damn sht!

GroPro - The thing is:

It is not fair to sell Micellar Casein at even $30 when you're getting it at $5/Lb. To win customer's heart the price should have been under $23

As far quality go, dont say VPX is unique. Every company who sells Isolates or Micellar Casein get it from couple of companies because there ain't more than 3 companies in USA which are manufacturing 90% Micellar Casein!

I have contacts with TOP Pharma Companies and know all the wholesale prices of each & every thing. Believe it or not your Ph's are way costly!

GoPro, for once you must admit your Ph's are overpriced. I think Big Cat said you the same thing.

gopro · 12-26-2003, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Testosterone
I don't give Molecular Nutrition damn sht!

GroPro - The thing is:

It is not fair to sell Micellar Casein at even $30 when you're getting it at $5/Lb. To win customer's heart the price should have been under $23

As far quality go, dont say VPX is unique. Every company who sells Isolates or Micellar Casein get it from couple of companies because there ain't more than 3 companies in USA which are manufacturing 90% Micellar Casein!

I have contacts with TOP Pharma Companies and know all the wholesale prices of each & every thing. Believe it or not your Ph's are way costly!

GoPro, for once you must admit your Ph's are overpriced. I think Big Cat said you the same thing.

You stated that Micellean is the most exensive protein on the
planet and I quickly refuted that claim. Also, Micellean's overall profile and the EXACT proteins they use are exclusive (in the sense that they use a better combo and a higher micellar content) to VPX.

They can charge more for their prohormones b/c in general, they work better. Their liposomal and polylipid delivery is costly as well...more costly than sticking the powder in a capsule.

And yes, VPX also chooses to use the coolest labels and put out the best graphics in their ads as well as put on the biggest show at the Olympia, Arnold, SOS, and other competitions. They are just a big time company and sales are on the rise. Every thing about them is first class and state of the art! They are the Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus of the supplement industry! Deal with it bro.

Testosterone · 12-26-2003, 11:38 AM

But I thought that Beverly International is the Bentley of the supplement industry.

gopro · 12-26-2003, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Testosterone
But I thought that Beverly International is the Bentley of the supplement industry.

They are.

Testosterone · 12-26-2003, 12:07 PM

You must file PATENTS then!!
For all your liposomal and polylipid deliveries.
Also if you feel your Micellean is one step better, go and file Patents!
Why don't you do it?

BTW Biotest filed for Microemulsion Tech.. Is that too special a achievement?

gopro · 12-26-2003, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Testosterone
You must file PATENTS then!!
For all your liposomal and polylipid deliveries.
Also if you feel your Micellean is one step better, go and file Patents!
Why don't you do it?

BTW Biotest filed for Microemulsion Tech.. Is that too special a achievement?

Ask the CEO.

This is getting silly bro. I'm not going to have this silly discussion with you. It is boring and tiresome. Here is your solution...don't buy VPX...ok? End of story. Happy holidays.

Dante B. · 12-26-2003, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Testosterone
It is not fair to sell Micellar Casein at even $30 when you're getting it at $5/Lb. To win customer's heart the price should have been under $23

I have contacts with TOP Pharma Companies and know all the wholesale prices of each & every thing. Believe it or not your Ph's are way costly!

Speaking in general, and putting VPX aside:

Do tell me, with this knowledge you have, aren't the "top" pharmaceutical companies making quite the nice profit.

Or put another way:

The customer determines what is fair, and what isn't. You stating "[it] should have been under $23," based on the cost of material alone, is absolutely ridiculous (and again, I'm not speaking for or against VPX, in terms of what's overpriced and that which isn't).

Question(s):

What role do profits play?

How are profits determined?

And what is the ability for you to earn a decent, or even substantial income based upon?

For the last question, if you say your "hard work," you've obviously missed the point.

Do you know how much it costs to manufacture a CD? About 50 cents, or so. If you purchase it for $15, have you been ripped off? What made that CD valuable to you, or anyone? Original prices of raw materials do not (alone) determine final prices, and what's fair, or what isn't, cannot be judged by original prices.

If that were the case, wherever it is you're working, let me tell you:

You're ripping people off.

once was fat · 12-26-2003, 03:48 PM

Wow this is a great debate. I learn so much when top notch people go at it. (Im not being sarcastic either). I was actually able to drop some pure knowledge on my family about supplements and weight trainning thanks to everyone here.

Thanks for teaching.

prolangtum · 12-26-2003, 04:04 PM

Testosterone,
I believe elsewhere you stated you sell Biotest in India or somewhere. VPX may be one thing, but Biotest? Please, I as well as others could go off on a nice little tangent about the horrors of Biotest advertising, and the overpricing as well.

Randy · 12-26-2003, 04:05 PM

To bad you couldn't get all this stuff at Costco

Well at least I get a 6lb quality tub of quality protein for an reasonable price of only 20 bucks.

Now that is what I'm talking about.

That even makes the wolf smile

once was fat · 12-26-2003, 04:08 PM

Randy what is that stuff called at costco?

12-25-2003, 02:40 PM	#1
Testosterone Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Punjab Posts: 391	VPX Products: Warning Another one that rates high on my scammer list. I'm well aware that we get lots of questions about these products so if any should pop up, feel free to refer them to this post. VPX is yet another company that delights in jeopardizing the legal status of prohormones by making their stuff sound like steroids. Both names are modelled after the popular nandrolone decanoate product Deca-Durabolin, and the first combine with Para from Parabolan and the second with var from anavar or nilevar. All popular black market steroids. And you would trust these people to have your best interest at heart ? Now what kind of example are we setting for our young ones with giving them their first taste of steroids by introducing them this way ? What if they hear names of steroids and see daddy is taking Decavar ... They'll think you are a crook. But the products themselves are no better quality in muscle gain therefor. Before I get into these two products individually, I would like to adress this liposomal delivery system. Now this is a sublingual techniques where they claim to have made them fat-soluble and that orals and cyclos are not fat-soluble. Ok, Now listen carefully, this is important. Prohormones are steroidogenic. that means they are made from the product cholesterol, which is the prime storage of FAT for energy. Now personally I can't think of anything more Fat-soluble than fat, can you ? That means orals are highly fat-soluble. Cyclo's are not and with reason. To get a prohormone to absorb sublingually you need it to pass the sebaceous mucus gland. This gland is "hydrophyllic" or water-loving. That means a fat-soluble substance cannot pass through very well. What cyclo does is coat the prohormone. the inside of the cyclo is lipophyllic meaning its easy to attach the prohormone inside, but the outside is hydrophyllic meaning the whole thing (cyclo-prohormone) becomes water-soluble and can pass through the gland into the blood at a high rate. Now these guys use sublingual (lipojection they call it) technology as well, but they went through all this trouble ti make it lipophyllic ? Which it already was ? That means this stuff has lower efficacy than an oral. Looking at sublingual technology its also important that you note that the ceiling of delivery has been established at 25 mg of prohormones (higher serum levels than 50 mg, tested at Eastern Michigan university)That means if you get 1 mg of this stuff inside you, its a lot. The effective dose starts at 250-300 mg. Something worth considering. Not that it helps much with what's in it. Paradeca is a product using this technology to bring you : Nor-diol, 4AD and androtriol. I'll give you the first two, when delivered properly are great prohormones. But androtriol ? This stuff isn't even active in the body, much less anabolic. What kind of crap is that ? Somebody needs to do their chemistry homework. Now here are some interesting excerpts from the VPX promo's : After entering the bloodstream, a powerful pharmacological phenomena medically known as pharmacokinetics occurs when PARADECA’S multilayered phospholipids naturally break down dispersing billions of prohormone and phytochemical molecules into the body. These substances potentially influence luteinizing action, antiaromatase activity, increase receptor affinity and also allow the intrinsic action of 19 Norandrostenediol, 4-androstenediol and ANDROTRIOL to take place Phenomenon known as pharmacokinetics ? That literally means every pharmacological substance that has any effect in the body. I think their terminology needs some work too. Now supplying fats normally will give you higher T-levels. But supplying it with 4AD which inhibits the action of the natural T-axis will actually give you some really bad results on your next cholesterol check. What it will not do is inhibit aromatase action (if it even delivered the 4AD there would be an increase in estrogenic output), as expressed earlier luteinizing action is diminished severely and not stimulated, and if they wanted to increase receptor affinity they should have come up with a hydrosomal delivery method instead. All this goes to show that this stuff is utter crap, and utter expensive craps. i will give it to you right here, black on white, that this will give you NO GAINS for ONLY 100+ dollars at the cheapest. Good luck. NowDecavar is very similar in that it also contains inactive ingredients like androtriol and an inferior method of delivery, this one also contains : Tribulus and both flavones of methoxy. Now methoxyisoflavone is absolutely useless, this has been shown many times. All tests even claiming it works were done in-house, on rats by the manufacturing company (Chinoin) and date back to 1985. that's what i would call outdated. Most of the info out there now is still based on a 1977 patent application. It simply does not work and new research recently published in MD showed that it may be potentially harmful to health and gains. Ipriflavone is even worse. Chinoin tested many flavones before making methoxy, including ipriflavone, and even they deemed it unworthy. here is a company that patented and marketed the worst crap in the history of the industry, and they deemed this stuff unworthy. Does that make you want to take it ? Ok, tribulus maybe. Well, if you are over 40 and are looking for an easy way to get a boner, trib is for you. But you'd still need 1500-2000 mg. As for anabolic properties, trib is very limited in its actions and will do you no good, especially if you are a young athlete looking for the maximum of gains. In conclusion I have to warn you that similar products containing only methoxy and an ECA stack also named after a steroid were also grossly marketed by this same company, so beware. Apart from the fact that these guys too are very creative in advertising, i have to deem this one as the top of my scammer list. They definitely need some lessons in biochem and terminology and need to get some facts straight. Their complex words (at least to newbies) make it hard to see through their facade for rookies, but those who have been around will tell you what crap this really is. So please, my warning to you, avoid this company and anything it touches. They are a mockery to this industry and everything our sport stands for. And they have the guts to sell you this crap for only hundreds of dollars when the base compound for a single bottle costs no more than 8-10 dollars to make. That has to make you wonder. Unfortunately there are still those who equate price with quality, well in this business, i'd say think again. STRENGTH & HONOR

12-25-2003, 02:52 PM	#2
Testosterone Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Punjab Posts: 391	The above comments are from Big Cat from BBdotcom. STRENGTH & HONOR

12-25-2003, 02:56 PM	#3
Randy Woof! Woof! Woof! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: California Posts: 7,859 Photos: 4	Doesn't Gopro promote VPX products? - O F F I C I A L . L I N K . M A S T E R - Maintains a Reference to all Gopros P/RR/S Links Gopros latest routines: CLICK HERE Lift like a Chicken Look Like a Chicken

12-25-2003, 03:05 PM	#4
Testosterone Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Punjab Posts: 391	Yeah He does. He had a share fair of his fairytales to say in other boards also but this is ineveitable. VPX is Muscletech in making! Why blame others ? STRENGTH & HONOR

12-25-2003, 03:08 PM	#5
oaktownboy Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: smog and fog Posts: 4,428	Big Cat is a well known expert on PH and steroid-derived compounds. Chuck Norris once lost his keys and couldn't remember where he put them. So he tortured himself for half an hour until he gave up their location.

12-25-2003, 03:10 PM	#6
Randy Woof! Woof! Woof! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: California Posts: 7,859 Photos: 4	I don't believe in any of that stuff myself Testosterone. I think most of it is a waste of money. People get attracted by the fancy marketing pictures on the bottles. They see big muscles draped around a bottle and they think it's the miracle solution for muscle mass . I'm sure there are some products that help, but I guess I am just old fashioned. I take the known good products that body builders have been taking for years... Like creatine, protein, glutamine, zma, and basic vitamins... That is all I need. Well in addition to a good diet and hard lifting. - O F F I C I A L . L I N K . M A S T E R - Maintains a Reference to all Gopros P/RR/S Links Gopros latest routines: CLICK HERE Lift like a Chicken Look Like a Chicken Last edited by Randy : 12-25-2003 at 10:12 PM.

12-25-2003, 03:12 PM	#7
Testosterone Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Punjab Posts: 391	Thats exactly I mean to say. I hope this clears "The Air" I hope everybody knows something else about VPX products. STRENGTH & HONOR

12-25-2003, 09:20 PM	#8
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 14,335 Photos: 10	I know their Micellean MRP is the best for what I am doing, never tried their prohormones. If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

12-25-2003, 09:33 PM	#9
plouffe is bulking Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,786 Photos: 6	GOPRO BIATCH THEM OUT! These are my favorite faces : - - - Personal Bests: Bench - 235 Deadlift - 315 X 17 Squat - 315 X 11 40 yrd. - 4.65

12-25-2003, 09:34 PM	#10
plouffe is bulking Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,786 Photos: 6	hahaha These are my favorite faces : - - - Personal Bests: Bench - 235 Deadlift - 315 X 17 Squat - 315 X 11 40 yrd. - 4.65

12-25-2003, 11:33 PM	#13
Randy Woof! Woof! Woof! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: California Posts: 7,859 Photos: 4	I agree as well, and that has been the steroid users favorite comparison, "Why are cigarrettes and alcohol legal, but steroids are not?" But you can buy illegal drugs right from the internet. The internet black hole in which the government apparantly still does not know how to control. But then again do we want their control? Well that is a whole new topic? I think it is much easier for these supplement companies to pass false claims and bogus products through the internet than anywhere else. But they will do it direct as well as long as they get away with it. Well they're not getting my money for their bogus garbage. - O F F I C I A L . L I N K . M A S T E R - Maintains a Reference to all Gopros P/RR/S Links Gopros latest routines: CLICK HERE Lift like a Chicken Look Like a Chicken

12-26-2003, 09:36 AM	#14
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: GLOBAL! Posts: 10,893	This was an old post put out by Big Cat who is a very well respected expert on many topics related to bodybuilding. I think that in general Big Cat is an excellent educator and writer on all bodybuilding topics and has done well for this industry. That said, what he says in the above post is a CROCK OF SH%T! VPX is THE most attacked company on the planet...bar none. Do you know why??? Jealousy!!!!!!!!!!!! When you are on top, EVERYONE and their mother tries to knock you off! How do they ALWAYS do it? Not by talking about their own products, but by trying to ruin the good name of VPX. Its just like politicians do...you see smear campaigns like this all of the time..."he did this...she did that...he sucks...she sucks!" Its childish and pathetic! They talk about the names of VPX products "mirroring" that of steroids and how THAT is why they will soon be banned. Please...give me a break! Yeah, and that is why ephedra was banned and why the gov't would even like to regulate proteins and amino acids! Not to mention that there are dozens of companies out there that market their products with "steroid like names!" But do you hear one word about them? Nope, not a one! Why? They are not on top! Are VPXs prices a bit higher than most? Yup...but they also use the finest raw materials and the finest manufacturing processes. BMW costs more than Toyota and that is b/c BMW outperforms Toyota on the road. Things that are better cost more...period! As far as the liposomal delivery system and the polylipid delivery system...they can argue all they want (probably b/c they are pissed they did not come out with it on their own), but the stuff works plain and simple! Lipsomal delivery is a legitimate way to get many compounds into the system more efficiently and polylipid delivery is an improvement on it. Paradeca, the first liposomal delivery product became VPXs first multi-million dollar seller (and still sells well today with no advertising spent on it) b/c people use it, found it to work very well, and reordered it! Yes, liposomes suck but transdermal is perfect...please! Wrong! Yes, I work for VPX...I started here a few months ago, however, I carried VPX in my gym for years before I worked at this amazing company. I trained clients from beginners to national level bodybuilders and athletes, and I put every one of them on one or more VPX products. Quality is quality. What works, works! VPX is top of the line, quality products that WORK...BIG TIME!! Stop your bitching and deal with it...VPX is GROWING and will continue to because along with a few other companies, they put out the best sports nutrition products on the planet. Period! All American EFX Sponsored Pro Bodybuilder/Internet Marketing Manager P/RR/S DVD and E-Book now available! P/RR/S DVD http://www.home-gym.com/erbrporepras.html P/RR/S E-BOOK html www.X-traordinaryWorkouts.com Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

12-26-2003, 09:42 AM	#15
prolangtum Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 353	Although some of VPX's ads are over the top, and their products are overpriced (I know many companies who get the creme de la creme of raw materials too) they are not crap. They will work. Marketing aside, they do carry a decent array of products. Oh no, I agreed with GoPro. Mark it down, Decemeber 26, 2003, 9:45 am CST. Mod @ Bulknutrition Forums Mod @ superiormuscle.com Mod @ steroidsupport.com Designersupps.com Bulknutrition.com Blackstarlabs.com

12-26-2003, 10:16 AM	#17
Testosterone Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Punjab Posts: 391	If that is so, then whats wrong with Biotest? GoPro must understand that there are chinks in every armour as far as Supplement Industry is concerned. I read that WHOLE THREAD which consisted about 7 odd pages! No matter how supreme their products are - VPX products are OVERPRICED. Just for an example: VPX Micellean (Micellar Casein) Its the costliest protein on planet. I dunno how much you guys are buying that for !! VPX buys it @ $5/Lb (That's True) Supreme quality need not be overpriced. Ask ON for that! STRENGTH & HONOR

12-26-2003, 10:57 AM	#19
nacnac972 MX Racer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: SF bay area Posts: 159	All I know is that in 26 days I gained 10 lbs from syngex I and II.It was exspensive but I got great results on my first PH cycle.The sides that i got included nothing at all!!!!!My friend is my size(not to say are bodies are the same)and was on the same diet and gained 5 solid pounds from S1+.He cant wait to try VPXs products.All I say is everybody responds differently so give you opinons and use what you like.Oh 1 more thing GP whatever company is on top like my company everybody hates you.JUst like in sports.everybody wants to see the champs fall.

12-26-2003, 10:58 AM	#20
Testosterone Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Punjab Posts: 391	I don't give Molecular Nutrition damn sht! GroPro - The thing is: It is not fair to sell Micellar Casein at even $30 when you're getting it at $5/Lb. To win customer's heart the price should have been under $23 As far quality go, dont say VPX is unique. Every company who sells Isolates or Micellar Casein get it from couple of companies because there ain't more than 3 companies in USA which are manufacturing 90% Micellar Casein! I have contacts with TOP Pharma Companies and know all the wholesale prices of each & every thing. Believe it or not your Ph's are way costly! GoPro, for once you must admit your Ph's are overpriced. I think Big Cat said you the same thing. STRENGTH & HONOR

12-26-2003, 11:38 AM	#22
Testosterone Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Punjab Posts: 391	But I thought that Beverly International is the Bentley of the supplement industry. STRENGTH & HONOR

12-26-2003, 12:07 PM	#24
Testosterone Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Punjab Posts: 391	You must file PATENTS then!! For all your liposomal and polylipid deliveries. Also if you feel your Micellean is one step better, go and file Patents! Why don't you do it? BTW Biotest filed for Microemulsion Tech.. Is that too special a achievement? STRENGTH & HONOR

12-26-2003, 03:48 PM	#27
once was fat Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: tucson az Posts: 692 Photos: 2	Wow this is a great debate. I learn so much when top notch people go at it. (Im not being sarcastic either). I was actually able to drop some pure knowledge on my family about supplements and weight trainning thanks to everyone here. Thanks for teaching. He who speaks least, think's most.

12-26-2003, 04:04 PM	#28
prolangtum Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 353	Testosterone, I believe elsewhere you stated you sell Biotest in India or somewhere. VPX may be one thing, but Biotest? Please, I as well as others could go off on a nice little tangent about the horrors of Biotest advertising, and the overpricing as well. Mod @ Bulknutrition Forums Mod @ superiormuscle.com Mod @ steroidsupport.com Designersupps.com Bulknutrition.com Blackstarlabs.com

12-26-2003, 04:05 PM	#29
Randy Woof! Woof! Woof! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: California Posts: 7,859 Photos: 4	To bad you couldn't get all this stuff at Costco Well at least I get a 6lb quality tub of quality protein for an reasonable price of only 20 bucks. Now that is what I'm talking about. That even makes the wolf smile - O F F I C I A L . L I N K . M A S T E R - Maintains a Reference to all Gopros P/RR/S Links Gopros latest routines: CLICK HERE Lift like a Chicken Look Like a Chicken

12-26-2003, 04:08 PM	#30
once was fat Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: tucson az Posts: 692 Photos: 2	Randy what is that stuff called at costco? He who speaks least, think's most.

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