Would this be a good stack?

once was fat · 12-28-2003, 09:39 PM

Would this be a good stack? Z-14 Meltdown ephedra free, Redline, and lipoderm ultra. I was thinking of a dosing schedule like this.

Morning z-14 meltdown 2 pills
lunch z -14 meltdown 1 pill
Pre workout- Redline recomended dose

Lopoderm ultra 2 times daily one in the morning and one in the night.

Would this be to much? Will any of these have a negative reaction with one another?

I already have the lipoderm and the z-14. Thinking about adding redline for pre workout energy.

Thanks in advance.

Woops wrong board sorry. I meant to post on the supplement board.

once was fat · 12-28-2003, 10:43 PM

AHHHHHHH Please help. Im about to order.

once was fat · 12-29-2003, 01:07 PM

I guess Im alone on this one.

bigswole30 · 12-29-2003, 02:51 PM

That looks fine as long as the time between the Meltdown and Redline is 4-5 hours.

Twin Peak · 12-29-2003, 03:02 PM

Sorry, I don't know the ingredients of Meltdown.

plouffe · 12-29-2003, 03:15 PM

For prework out stick with the E/C/A stak.

Epherdrine - 40mg
Caffeine - 200mg
Aspirin - 325 mg

Source: Dollar store aspirin, and minithins or w/e kinda of epherdrine available at a gas station / party store. Works great, convenient, and cheap..

And what bodyfat % are you down to?

Twin Peak · 12-29-2003, 03:19 PM

Aspirin is essentially useless.

plouffe · 12-29-2003, 03:23 PM

Don't waste your money on all that bullshit. Stick with the E/C/A stack. Buy some Chromium * appetite suppresant* , and L - Carntine * Boosts metabolism * and supplement that also. Stick with that, and you'll loose some more weight. Also strict diet, lower your carbohydrate intake.. Maybe even purchase some starch blockers. My buddy marble swears by them. Any other questions just ask. Goodluck

**Mudge** · 12-29-2003, 03:23 PM

Duchaine supported NSAID use pre-workout, yet some are against them.

Diclofenac sodium (Voltaren) reduced exercise induced injury in human skeletal muscle.
Med. Sci. Sports Exerc. Vol 32 No. 7. pp. 1191-1196, 2000. O’Grady, M., A. C. Hackney, K. Schneider, E. Bossen, K. Steinberg, J. M. Douglas, Jr., W. Murray, and W. D. Watkins.

Abstract: Purpose: To examine the effects of prolonged systemic administration of diclofenac sodium (Voltaren), a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug, on indices of exercise-induced muscle damage in humans. Methods: Fifty-four volunteers (mean age, 26.4 yr; range, 18-35) participated in this randomized double blind, placebo controlled trial. To achieve steady-state tissue levels, either placebo or diclofenac was orally administered two times a day for 27 consecutive days. A strenuous 20-min stepping exercise program, about which the subjects were unfamiliar, was conducted on day 15. Creatine Kinase (CK) activities were measured immediately before the exercise and on days 16, 18, and 27. Vastus lateralis muscle samples were obtained immediately before exercise and on day 27 for subsequent histological characterization of muscle inflammation. Results: The pre-exercise muscle samples revealed no difference in muscle damage between the two groups. However, the post-exercise muscle samples showed that the diclofenac-treated group demonstrated less muscle damage than the placebo-treated subjects (P=0.002). The administration of diclofenac also resulted in a significant lowering of post-/pre-exercise CK ratios on days 18 (P=0.03) and 27 (P=0.02) compared with the placebo group, an indirect finding that supports the possibility of diclofenac reducing exercise-induced muscle damage. Conclusion: These findings demonstrate that pre-administration of diclofenac (in accordance with tissue half-life pharmacokinetics) reduces quantitative indices of exercise-induced skeletal muscle damage in human muscle.

**Mudge** · 12-29-2003, 03:30 PM

Quote:

In bone, NSAIDS could counteract the positive effects of estrogen and serms on bone remodeling by interfering with osteobalst activity (1).

(1) Biochem Pharmacol 1999 Sep 15;58(6):983-90

Effects of nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs and prostaglandins on osteoblastic functions.

Ho ML, Chang JK, Chuang LY, Hsu HK, Wang GJ.

It also looks like NSAIDs negatively impact protein synthesis.

plouffe · 12-29-2003, 03:42 PM

If I were over weight, I wouldn't care too much. It sounds like he's trying to loose a decent ammount of fat and if the NSAID with in the stack benifits weight loss and/or better cardiovascular workout , I would stick with it. But I'll drop the asprin outta my stack now that I've read that.

once was fat · 12-29-2003, 05:05 PM

[quote]Originally posted by plouffe
It sounds like he's trying to loose a decent ammount of fat.

I dont think Im over weight at the moment considering Ive lost 59 pounds in 4 months now.

Height 6 foot 1 and a 1/2 feet
weight 182-185
I will be getting my bf% done tonight.

Im just barely and I mean barely starting to see my top abs take on some form but not much. My chest is coming along fine but need to loose a little more fat off of my chest. My diet is very good and has stayed good. Basiclly I put together these sups because the other ones that I have used dont seem to help anymore, and wanted to go with a more trusted name. My goal is to get chisled by summer and they way its going I hope to obtain that goal. Using the supps to aid the way. I figure I need to loose no more than 10lbs.

plouffe · 12-29-2003, 05:48 PM

Well look into a E/C/A stack. From the looks of it, you've got it undercontrol. Just stay dedicated bro, your doing sweet so far. My buddy is in the same position as you.. trying to shed that last 10 pounds to get that nice 6 pack. He's been cutting carbs.. and he's been getting results. I'd suggest that. Try it for a few weeks and see how it goes... Goodluck. * Post your bf%..

about 10% to see a 6 pack. A shitty one but you can see the ab's.

**Mudge** · 12-29-2003, 06:23 PM

How many calories do you eat a day man? I had a hard time eating so little that I got down to 210

once was fat · 12-29-2003, 07:59 PM

Plouffe, Mudge.

My bf% came in at 13.6%

Here is another question that is very important to me.

If I went from 241lbs (thats how much I used to weigh) to current 182-185lbs and I have only been working out for 4 months. My biceps and triceps have defintely cut up compared to where they were and I am pretty lean on the arms. I can acutally see some decent definiton on my arms. As I said in the last post my top abs are slightly forming. With that said if I have only been working out and working out hard for 4 months and I dropped my bf% down to like 10% will there be definintion on my chest and abs even though I have only been going at it for 4 months?

I know that it sounds like I have lost a lot of weight really fast, but I never starved myself. It was a complete diet change and gym work. To give you an ideah of what I used to eat on a dail basis

12 pack regular coke YES every day
Half box of twinkies, or ding dongs
Half bag of doritos , bag of popcorn, and candy every day.

These are only a very few of the things I would consume on a daily basis in addittion to breafast, lunch and dinner.

Now completely healthy except for a cheat day once a week and when I cheat I can only eat two slices of pizza before 1 whole pizza salad and wings.

Sorry so long

HoldDaMayo · 12-29-2003, 09:00 PM

damn i miss hostess donuts... those little chocolate ones or crumb with a BIG Mt Dew... good God I was happy back then...

12-28-2003, 09:39 PM	#1
once was fat Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: tucson az Posts: 692 Photos: 2	Would this be a good stack? Would this be a good stack? Z-14 Meltdown ephedra free, Redline, and lipoderm ultra. I was thinking of a dosing schedule like this. Morning z-14 meltdown 2 pills lunch z -14 meltdown 1 pill Pre workout- Redline recomended dose Lopoderm ultra 2 times daily one in the morning and one in the night. Would this be to much? Will any of these have a negative reaction with one another? I already have the lipoderm and the z-14. Thinking about adding redline for pre workout energy. Thanks in advance. Woops wrong board sorry. I meant to post on the supplement board. He who speaks least, think's most.

12-28-2003, 10:43 PM	#2
once was fat Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: tucson az Posts: 692 Photos: 2	AHHHHHHH Please help. Im about to order. He who speaks least, think's most.

12-29-2003, 01:07 PM	#3
once was fat Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: tucson az Posts: 692 Photos: 2	I guess Im alone on this one. He who speaks least, think's most.

12-29-2003, 02:51 PM	#4
bigswole30 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: georgia Posts: 367	That looks fine as long as the time between the Meltdown and Redline is 4-5 hours. chad.brooks@epic-nutrition.com www.epic-nutrition.com www.prrstraining.com

12-29-2003, 03:02 PM	#5
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,870	Sorry, I don't know the ingredients of Meltdown. www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

12-29-2003, 03:15 PM	#6
plouffe is bulking Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,786 Photos: 6	For prework out stick with the E/C/A stak. Epherdrine - 40mg Caffeine - 200mg Aspirin - 325 mg Source: Dollar store aspirin, and minithins or w/e kinda of epherdrine available at a gas station / party store. Works great, convenient, and cheap.. And what bodyfat % are you down to? These are my favorite faces : - - - Personal Bests: Bench - 235 Deadlift - 315 X 17 Squat - 315 X 11 40 yrd. - 4.65

12-29-2003, 03:19 PM	#7
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,870	Aspirin is essentially useless. www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

12-29-2003, 03:23 PM	#8
plouffe is bulking Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,786 Photos: 6	Don't waste your money on all that bullshit. Stick with the E/C/A stack. Buy some Chromium * appetite suppresant* , and L - Carntine * Boosts metabolism * and supplement that also. Stick with that, and you'll loose some more weight. Also strict diet, lower your carbohydrate intake.. Maybe even purchase some starch blockers. My buddy marble swears by them. Any other questions just ask. Goodluck These are my favorite faces : - - - Personal Bests: Bench - 235 Deadlift - 315 X 17 Squat - 315 X 11 40 yrd. - 4.65

12-29-2003, 03:23 PM	#9
Mudge Dieting I swear! Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Here Posts: 23,477 Photos: 1	Duchaine supported NSAID use pre-workout, yet some are against them. Diclofenac sodium (Voltaren) reduced exercise induced injury in human skeletal muscle. Med. Sci. Sports Exerc. Vol 32 No. 7. pp. 1191-1196, 2000. O’Grady, M., A. C. Hackney, K. Schneider, E. Bossen, K. Steinberg, J. M. Douglas, Jr., W. Murray, and W. D. Watkins. Abstract: Purpose: To examine the effects of prolonged systemic administration of diclofenac sodium (Voltaren), a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug, on indices of exercise-induced muscle damage in humans. Methods: Fifty-four volunteers (mean age, 26.4 yr; range, 18-35) participated in this randomized double blind, placebo controlled trial. To achieve steady-state tissue levels, either placebo or diclofenac was orally administered two times a day for 27 consecutive days. A strenuous 20-min stepping exercise program, about which the subjects were unfamiliar, was conducted on day 15. Creatine Kinase (CK) activities were measured immediately before the exercise and on days 16, 18, and 27. Vastus lateralis muscle samples were obtained immediately before exercise and on day 27 for subsequent histological characterization of muscle inflammation. Results: The pre-exercise muscle samples revealed no difference in muscle damage between the two groups. However, the post-exercise muscle samples showed that the diclofenac-treated group demonstrated less muscle damage than the placebo-treated subjects (P=0.002). The administration of diclofenac also resulted in a significant lowering of post-/pre-exercise CK ratios on days 18 (P=0.03) and 27 (P=0.02) compared with the placebo group, an indirect finding that supports the possibility of diclofenac reducing exercise-induced muscle damage. Conclusion: These findings demonstrate that pre-administration of diclofenac (in accordance with tissue half-life pharmacokinetics) reduces quantitative indices of exercise-induced skeletal muscle damage in human muscle. Kinesiology Comp Bench MaxCalc Motivation Bench form Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu

12-29-2003, 03:42 PM	#11
plouffe is bulking Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,786 Photos: 6	If I were over weight, I wouldn't care too much. It sounds like he's trying to loose a decent ammount of fat and if the NSAID with in the stack benifits weight loss and/or better cardiovascular workout , I would stick with it. But I'll drop the asprin outta my stack now that I've read that. These are my favorite faces : - - - Personal Bests: Bench - 235 Deadlift - 315 X 17 Squat - 315 X 11 40 yrd. - 4.65

12-29-2003, 05:05 PM	#12
once was fat Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: tucson az Posts: 692 Photos: 2	[quote]Originally posted by plouffe It sounds like he's trying to loose a decent ammount of fat. I dont think Im over weight at the moment considering Ive lost 59 pounds in 4 months now. Height 6 foot 1 and a 1/2 feet weight 182-185 I will be getting my bf% done tonight. Im just barely and I mean barely starting to see my top abs take on some form but not much. My chest is coming along fine but need to loose a little more fat off of my chest. My diet is very good and has stayed good. Basiclly I put together these sups because the other ones that I have used dont seem to help anymore, and wanted to go with a more trusted name. My goal is to get chisled by summer and they way its going I hope to obtain that goal. Using the supps to aid the way. I figure I need to loose no more than 10lbs. He who speaks least, think's most.

12-29-2003, 05:48 PM	#13
plouffe is bulking Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,786 Photos: 6	Well look into a E/C/A stack. From the looks of it, you've got it undercontrol. Just stay dedicated bro, your doing sweet so far. My buddy is in the same position as you.. trying to shed that last 10 pounds to get that nice 6 pack. He's been cutting carbs.. and he's been getting results. I'd suggest that. Try it for a few weeks and see how it goes... Goodluck. * Post your bf%.. about 10% to see a 6 pack. A shitty one but you can see the ab's. These are my favorite faces : - - - Personal Bests: Bench - 235 Deadlift - 315 X 17 Squat - 315 X 11 40 yrd. - 4.65

12-29-2003, 06:23 PM	#14
Mudge Dieting I swear! Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Here Posts: 23,477 Photos: 1	How many calories do you eat a day man? I had a hard time eating so little that I got down to 210 Kinesiology Comp Bench MaxCalc Motivation Bench form Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu

12-29-2003, 07:59 PM	#15
once was fat Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: tucson az Posts: 692 Photos: 2	Plouffe, Mudge. My bf% came in at 13.6% Here is another question that is very important to me. If I went from 241lbs (thats how much I used to weigh) to current 182-185lbs and I have only been working out for 4 months. My biceps and triceps have defintely cut up compared to where they were and I am pretty lean on the arms. I can acutally see some decent definiton on my arms. As I said in the last post my top abs are slightly forming. With that said if I have only been working out and working out hard for 4 months and I dropped my bf% down to like 10% will there be definintion on my chest and abs even though I have only been going at it for 4 months? I know that it sounds like I have lost a lot of weight really fast, but I never starved myself. It was a complete diet change and gym work. To give you an ideah of what I used to eat on a dail basis 12 pack regular coke YES every day Half box of twinkies, or ding dongs Half bag of doritos , bag of popcorn, and candy every day. These are only a very few of the things I would consume on a daily basis in addittion to breafast, lunch and dinner. Now completely healthy except for a cheat day once a week and when I cheat I can only eat two slices of pizza before 1 whole pizza salad and wings. Sorry so long He who speaks least, think's most.

12-29-2003, 09:00 PM	#16
HoldDaMayo Just call me Mayo Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Oceanside, CA Posts: 1,917 Photos: 4	damn i miss hostess donuts... those little chocolate ones or crumb with a BIG Mt Dew... good God I was happy back then... Are you kidding me????

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