Thread: 17yr old using 1-AD

You just opened Pandora's box with this one. You'll find the answer here and here then here

In short no. See my previous posts for why.

Absolutely not. Here's why:

I have been getting an increasing number of messages from individuals under eighteen asking me advice about prohormones. Although, I don't mind having these types of discussions with them, I feel as though I have typed the side effects up for them numerous times and still have trouble detering them from using them, so I want to outline some of the potential risks involved with teenagers using prohormones.

Health Risks

When you are under 21, your endocrine system is still developing. This should be obvious as you are still going through the end of puberty, getting acne, etc. During this time peroid, supplementing with extrogenous hormones is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. There is potential for very serious and long term side effects to occur. I hear all the time some of these people saying that "I've stopped growing, so it's okay". No - it's not okay. There are many other potential side effects besides growth plates. Here is a list of a few.

1) Premature closing of growth plates. This one is the most known about. Even if you think you have stopped growing, there still is a potential for height increase over time. I have known people who are 18+ who have continued to grow in height. Scientists know that growth plates don't fuse completely in some cases until individuals are past 22. Don't be deterred just because you haven't grown taller in awhile.

2) Impotence. Supplementing with hormones while you are still growing can potentially cause PERMANENT impotence and fertility issues in teenagers. When you add testosterone, estrogen and a wealth of other synthetic androgens to your body it can cause problems with your normal testicular growth and function. Remember, some of these effects are more than just temporary.

3) Liver/Kidney Problems. I hear all the time teenagers say "Well my friends used it and they got big and nothing happened to them." Really? How do you know? Have they been to a doctor and had their liver and kidney values checked? I doubt it. Just because a person looks okay on the outside, doesn't mean that they could have a host of problems on the inside. Liver and kidney damage is nothing short of serious. This can occur even in people who are past their teen years.

4) Gyno or "bitch tits". I believe this using androgens in teens can really increase the risk of gyno. Gyno has been known to happen naturally in many teenagers because of already fluxating hormones. When you add more hormones to the mix, you dramatically increase the problems. Remember that once you have gyno, its very hard to get rid of unless you take the proper precautions up front.

5) Hair loss/acne/prostate aggrevation, etc. All of these can be increased and agrevated with external androgen use. Have you ever seen a 20 year old going bald? It's not pretty. Don't think it can't happen to you.

6) Brain function. It is well known that hormones play a role in development of cognative brain function. Adding external hormones when your brain is still developing could be a disaster waiting to happen. How can you now many years down the road there won't be problems?

Psychological Problems

Being a teenager can be difficult as it is. Getting used to your own body image can be hard if you feel you're different than everyone else. Many teenagers turn to bodybuilding to help improve that image, and that can be a very healthy thing. However, when a teenager becomes obsessed or is only after short term goals of getting ripped in 6 weeks then it can be a very serious problem when prohormones/steroids get in the mix.

1) Abuse. There is a high potential for abuse when individuals turn to prohormones/steroids when they aren't mature enough to handle them. Most of these individuals had these substances recommended to them by friends with erroneous data presented to them on how to use them and how they work. I have seen teenagers on this board claim to never come off cycles of Mag-10 and 1AD. There is no reason to abuse your body like that. Never coming off hormones can have even greater risks than using them for the short term, such as halting normal hormone production permantely. If you have a problem and want to discuss it with us, please post it.

Legal Problems

Using steroids and prohormones underage can have very obvious legal implications. Since all prohormones have labels on them indicated that they are not for use for individuals under 18, you take into liability not only yourself and your family, but risk liability on the manufacturer and seller who sold these substances to you. By doing this, you are hurting the community who use these substances responsibly. Take responsibility for yourself and stay away from these. Causing harm to yourself is one thing, but everytime a teenager uses prohormones, the potential for them being banned increases. Here are some other problems

1) Drug testing. If you are a teenager playing sports, using steroids and prohormones can seem like a good idea to increase your performance. How would it look if you suddenly got tested for them? Being tested for prohormones WILL SHOW UP AS STEROIDS. You will have no recourse for this, and could potentially find yourself being investigated by the authorities.

2) Purchasing steroids is already illegal, but purchasing prohormones can have implications as well. As I already said, on all bottles of prohormones there is a label saying "Not for use for individuals under 18". That is not just printed on there as a joke, that is on there for a reason. If you bought these substances underage and then got into trouble or had one of the side effects listed above from taking these, what do you think your parents are going to do? They are probably going to sue the manufacturer, sue the seller, and possibly contact their congressmen demanding these substances be banned. You just screwed everyone because you were in a hurry to get some quick muscle. Take into consideration the rest of us before you make your irresponsible purchases.

Please read this over and think about what your goals are a long time before you decide to take your health into jeopardy and risk legal repercussions by using prohormones and steroids as a teenager. You not only endanger yourself, but all of us who want to or may want to use prohormones one day. We all want to have good gains and have pefect bodies, thats why we're here. But rushing into things and abusing susbstances is not the answer. There is absolutely no justification for teenagers to use prohormones or steroids. None. So, before you decide to use them - please take some time out, and make a post describing your training, diet and supplemenation. I know that me and the other members of the board would be more than happy to help you make some changes to your diet and training to help gain naturally, without the use of androgens. Doing this, you will save us all a a lot of grief.

Posted by pogue @ bodybuilding.com
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hreadid=175713

Now that you know the reasons why you shouldn't take anything like this when you're this young...I hope that you will have a little discussion with your friends.

There is absolutely no scientific evidence for many of the claims made in that post. Just scare tactics. Disappointing.

Dont steroid or steroid like compounds have negative effects in younger people because of the possibility to stunt growth or negatively effect growth platelets?

Originally posted by camarosuper6
Dont steroid or steroid like compounds have negative effects in younger people because of the possibility to stunt growth or negatively effect growth platelets?

From Monolith:
1) Premature closing of growth plates. This one is the most known about. Even if you think you have stopped growing, there still is a potential for height increase over time. I have known people who are 18+ who have continued to grow in height. Scientists know that growth plates don't fuse completely in some cases until individuals are past 22. Don't be deterred just because you haven't grown taller in awhile.

Originally posted by David Tolson
There is absolutely no scientific evidence for many of the claims made in that post. Just scare tactics. Disappointing.

I think you should have looked at the context of this thread before saying that.

Whether it does or doesn't affect people at a younger age, it's still a question of maturity and responsibility.

Originally posted by Monolith
I think you should have looked at the context of this thread before saying that.

This always poses a moral dilemma for me. Sure there are reasons why steroids may be harmful to those under 25, or 21, or whatever number. There are plenty of reasons why they may be harmful to people at any age. I have asked on repeated occasions, and searched around at pubmed, and been able to find any studies of substance that support these claims. In fact there are a few studies where doctors knowingly gave teenagers steroids for various reasons. They came out pretty much fine. And combine that with the fact that for decades there have been tens if not hundreds of thousands of steroid using high school athletes yearly, you would figure there would be some sort of study showing growth retardation by now, especially with all the anti-drug people out there.

Also, someone whose opinion I respect had laid out an argument against the "growth plates" argument at one point, but last time I thoroughly searched for it I couldn't find it. They may have removed it for legal reasons, and they have stayed out of all recent discussions of steroid use among teenagers. Something I would understand very much. The last thing one wants to look like is someone who is promoting steroid use by kids, even when they state that they are actively against it, but just combatting a particular piece of pseudoscience. But this reasoning is what keeps the lies in the DARE program, and so on - I just don't agree with the "ends justify the means" approach.

I really don't think teenagers should use steroids or prohormones. But I just can't bring myself to use scare tactics, no matter what the context. All this does is promote ignorance and lack of critical inquiry. Anyway here is what I put in an FAQ I did:

1.5: I'm under 21. Can I take prohormones?

No. Those under the age of 21 should not use prohormones, and there are many reasons given for this, some real and some imagined. Many of the arguments given for why younger people should not take prohormones are based on very bad science. These scare tactics and faulty arguments are partially understandable, since the main reasons younger people shouldn't use prohormones deal with issues such as responsibility and experience, and younger people tend to not listen to these reasons. All of the reasons not to use prohormones become amplified the younger you are, for example the risks are much greater under the age of 18. Some go so far as to say that you should not use prohormones if you are less than 25.

Honestly I would like nothing more than for someone to prove me wrong on this, by pointing to any original study that supports contentions such as "steroids stunt growth," "cause permanent infertility," etc. And of course it is always a likelihood in the absence of studies that indicate either way. But until then I'm not going to say that I think there is evidence when I've seen none. People will either listen to my judgement or they won't, and they are a lot more likely to listen if I respect their intelligence.

Sorry for the long-winded post, just something I've given a lot of thought to lately.

Originally posted by mousie
Whether it does or doesn't affect people at a younger age, it's still a question of maturity and responsibility.

Exactly

Originally posted by David Tolson
This always poses a moral dilemma for me. Sure there are reasons why steroids may be harmful to those under 25, or 21, or whatever number. There are plenty of reasons why they may be harmful to people at any age. I have asked on repeated occasions, and searched around at pubmed, and been able to find any studies of substance that support these claims. In fact there are a few studies where doctors knowingly gave teenagers steroids for various reasons. They came out pretty much fine. And combine that with the fact that for decades there have been tens if not hundreds of thousands of steroid using high school athletes yearly, you would figure there would be some sort of study showing growth retardation by now, especially with all the anti-drug people out there.

Also, someone whose opinion I respect had laid out an argument against the "growth plates" argument at one point, but last time I thoroughly searched for it I couldn't find it. They may have removed it for legal reasons, and they have stayed out of all recent discussions of steroid use among teenagers. Something I would understand very much. The last thing one wants to look like is someone who is promoting steroid use by kids, even when they state that they are actively against it, but just combatting a particular piece of pseudoscience. But this reasoning is what keeps the lies in the DARE program, and so on - I just don't agree with the "ends justify the means" approach.

I really don't think teenagers should use steroids or prohormones. But I just can't bring myself to use scare tactics, no matter what the context. All this does is promote ignorance and lack of critical inquiry. Anyway here is what I put in an FAQ I did:

1.5: I'm under 21. Can I take prohormones?

No. Those under the age of 21 should not use prohormones, and there are many reasons given for this, some real and some imagined. Many of the arguments given for why younger people should not take prohormones are based on very bad science. These scare tactics and faulty arguments are partially understandable, since the main reasons younger people shouldn't use prohormones deal with issues such as responsibility and experience, and younger people tend to not listen to these reasons. All of the reasons not to use prohormones become amplified the younger you are, for example the risks are much greater under the age of 18. Some go so far as to say that you should not use prohormones if you are less than 25.

Honestly I would like nothing more than for someone to prove me wrong on this, by pointing to any original study that supports contentions such as "steroids stunt growth," "cause permanent infertility," etc. And of course it is always a likelihood in the absence of studies that indicate either way. But until then I'm not going to say that I think there is evidence when I've seen none. People will either listen to my judgement or they won't, and they are a lot more likely to listen if I respect their intelligence.

Sorry for the long-winded post, just something I've given a lot of thought to lately.

Well Said!

Originally posted by David Tolson
This always poses a moral dilemma for me. Sure there are reasons why steroids may be harmful to those under 25, or 21, or whatever number. There are plenty of reasons why they may be harmful to people at any age. I have asked on repeated occasions, and searched around at pubmed, and been able to find any studies of substance that support these claims. In fact there are a few studies where doctors knowingly gave teenagers steroids for various reasons. They came out pretty much fine. And combine that with the fact that for decades there have been tens if not hundreds of thousands of steroid using high school athletes yearly, you would figure there would be some sort of study showing growth retardation by now, especially with all the anti-drug people out there.

Also, someone whose opinion I respect had laid out an argument against the "growth plates" argument at one point, but last time I thoroughly searched for it I couldn't find it. They may have removed it for legal reasons, and they have stayed out of all recent discussions of steroid use among teenagers. Something I would understand very much. The last thing one wants to look like is someone who is promoting steroid use by kids, even when they state that they are actively against it, but just combatting a particular piece of pseudoscience. But this reasoning is what keeps the lies in the DARE program, and so on - I just don't agree with the "ends justify the means" approach.

I really don't think teenagers should use steroids or prohormones. But I just can't bring myself to use scare tactics, no matter what the context. All this does is promote ignorance and lack of critical inquiry. Anyway here is what I put in an FAQ I did:

1.5: I'm under 21. Can I take prohormones?

No. Those under the age of 21 should not use prohormones, and there are many reasons given for this, some real and some imagined. Many of the arguments given for why younger people should not take prohormones are based on very bad science. These scare tactics and faulty arguments are partially understandable, since the main reasons younger people shouldn't use prohormones deal with issues such as responsibility and experience, and younger people tend to not listen to these reasons. All of the reasons not to use prohormones become amplified the younger you are, for example the risks are much greater under the age of 18. Some go so far as to say that you should not use prohormones if you are less than 25.

Honestly I would like nothing more than for someone to prove me wrong on this, by pointing to any original study that supports contentions such as "steroids stunt growth," "cause permanent infertility," etc. And of course it is always a likelihood in the absence of studies that indicate either way. But until then I'm not going to say that I think there is evidence when I've seen none. People will either listen to my judgement or they won't, and they are a lot more likely to listen if I respect their intelligence.

Sorry for the long-winded post, just something I've given a lot of thought to lately.

David - i'm 17 and have considered pro hormones before, but decided not to just because I don't think i've come even close to doing what I can naturally. Anyways, you're post was the first post that truly put things in perspective and gave some good answers to some questions i've had for a while as a teenager who works out often. Excellent read.

They can cause permanent impotence? I have never heard that. Is that only in younger people?

Originally posted by David Tolson
This always poses a moral dilemma for me. Sure there are reasons why steroids may be harmful to those under 25, or 21, or whatever number. There are plenty of reasons why they may be harmful to people at any age. I have asked on repeated occasions, and searched around at pubmed, and been able to find any studies of substance that support these claims. In fact there are a few studies where doctors knowingly gave teenagers steroids for various reasons. They came out pretty much fine. And combine that with the fact that for decades there have been tens if not hundreds of thousands of steroid using high school athletes yearly, you would figure there would be some sort of study showing growth retardation by now, especially with all the anti-drug people out there.

Also, someone whose opinion I respect had laid out an argument against the "growth plates" argument at one point, but last time I thoroughly searched for it I couldn't find it. They may have removed it for legal reasons, and they have stayed out of all recent discussions of steroid use among teenagers. Something I would understand very much. The last thing one wants to look like is someone who is promoting steroid use by kids, even when they state that they are actively against it, but just combatting a particular piece of pseudoscience. But this reasoning is what keeps the lies in the DARE program, and so on - I just don't agree with the "ends justify the means" approach.

I really don't think teenagers should use steroids or prohormones. But I just can't bring myself to use scare tactics, no matter what the context. All this does is promote ignorance and lack of critical inquiry. Anyway here is what I put in an FAQ I did:

1.5: I'm under 21. Can I take prohormones?

No. Those under the age of 21 should not use prohormones, and there are many reasons given for this, some real and some imagined. Many of the arguments given for why younger people should not take prohormones are based on very bad science. These scare tactics and faulty arguments are partially understandable, since the main reasons younger people shouldn't use prohormones deal with issues such as responsibility and experience, and younger people tend to not listen to these reasons. All of the reasons not to use prohormones become amplified the younger you are, for example the risks are much greater under the age of 18. Some go so far as to say that you should not use prohormones if you are less than 25.

Honestly I would like nothing more than for someone to prove me wrong on this, by pointing to any original study that supports contentions such as "steroids stunt growth," "cause permanent infertility," etc. And of course it is always a likelihood in the absence of studies that indicate either way. But until then I'm not going to say that I think there is evidence when I've seen none. People will either listen to my judgement or they won't, and they are a lot more likely to listen if I respect their intelligence.

Sorry for the long-winded post, just something I've given a lot of thought to lately.

I guess we're both just taking slightly different paths towards the same answer. I understand why you dont want to use 'scare tactics', since it disguises the truth... but isnt that the kind of tactic you need to take with an immature audience? An audience who - as you said yourself - tends to ignore responsibility and experience?

The few young people who posess those mature qualities are likely to be the ones who will see through the 'scare tactics', or at the least, investigate them further. They're the ones who will take anabolics seriously enough to use them safely at that age.

The kids who don't have the effort/maturity/intelligence to look beyond what theyre told, who just want to take "stuff" to "get big" might be dissuaded by the pseudo-science explanation i quoted above. Not only does it protect them from making a stupid mistake, but it protects the industry from more ESPN articles about "little johnny who overdosed on hardcore prohormone steroid anabolic precursor testosterone supplement drugs."

That said, ive got no experience with anabolics myself, so im likely talking out of my ass. Dont be shy in telling me so.

Well I can definitely see that point of view. Which I why I said that for me it is often a moral dilemma.

But here is another way of looking at it: Why are steroids, and some recreational drugs that are much safer than alcohol/tobacco so misunderstood in the first place? Because the scare tactics are allowed to go on for the sake of protecting people from themselves (and of course many political reasons). And even with smoking, even though I think it is a very unhealthy practice, I still disagree with many of the lies/tactics used in anti-smoking campaigns. I guess I'm just an idealist that thinks both sides should be reasonable, and that people should be able to figure out what is bad for them without being lied to.

Originally posted by Diesel
wantin to know if this is to young to use this supplement? because a couple of my buddies have gotten it and gotten pretty big off of it and i was thinking of ordering sum what do u gus think?

is this a legal issue with you? meaning why not just use the real mcCoy.?

Originally posted by David Tolson
Well I can definitely see that point of view. Which I why I said that for me it is often a moral dilemma.

But here is another way of looking at it: Why are steroids, and some recreational drugs that are much safer than alcohol/tobacco so misunderstood in the first place? Because the scare tactics are allowed to go on for the sake of protecting people from themselves (and of course many political reasons). And even with smoking, even though I think it is a very unhealthy practice, I still disagree with many of the lies/tactics used in anti-smoking campaigns. I guess I'm just an idealist that thinks both sides should be reasonable, and that people should be able to figure out what is bad for them without being lied to.

Yeah, it's too bad the libertarian party isnt more popular, isnt it?