Thread: M 1 Test & alcohol

If you're going to be running M1T, and its just a short cycle... whats the problem with dropping alcohol for short period?

I'd say choose one or the other.

Originally posted by Eggs
I'd say choose one or the other.

I know someone passing through liver tests with 160mg of accutane while drinking in college, MOST people cannot do even half of that for long without having elevated liver values (eventually his went up too).

So there is no way to say that sure you can be an alcoholic and run methylated steroids too, its your liver, not Joe's and not Sam's, nobody knows how you will react.

I have another friend who has liver problems at the age of 29 (discovered a little more than 2 years ago), she doesn't drink. Her mother died of this in her 60s, she didn't drink either.

Glucorell R (r-ALA not s-ALA, if you buy plain old ALA it will be a race-mix) is supposed to be great for the liver but I have no idea if there are sides at higher doses than normal. For the most part what seems apparent in keeping the liver healthy is not supplementation, but not beating the hell out of it. The liver still has to filter the junk you run through it, so cycle your steroids and cycle your beer, dont run the stuff non stop.

Run your M1T for two weeks and either keep the drinking to 2-3 beers on a weekend or dont drink at all, IMO. You can avoid the M1T for those days if you wish.

Either way though the only way to know is to get your own blood work done. Someone on another board didn't discover their liver issues until they ran a 4 week cycle of M1T, then they blamed the steroids for it. My own opinion was that they didn't develop a fatty unhealthy liver in a mere 4 weeks, they had a genetic predisposition and DID NOT KNOW IT because they didn't get blood work done. So if you are responsible and getting blood work have fun, if not, then play it safe.

milk thistle is NOT the smokeing gun of liver safety....its shown to have reduced liver values after many months of continual useage...also, these liver value reductions are very minimal........you wont see any "liver protection " in the few months from when you start takeing it, and really you wont ever see it...you will see slightly reduced umbers on a liver test and thats it


think about this on a logical level....if milk thistle was the super liver saver that people over react and say it is, why dosent it get prescribed to people with failing or cirrosised livers?

Originally posted by Power Rabbit
think about this on a logical level....if milk thistle was the super liver saver that people over react and say it is, why dosent it get prescribed to people with failing or cirrosised livers?

Amen to that. People seem to think taking a herb is going to protect their liver from abuse, and that is sad because at best, it will only *help* the liver repair itself after the abuse has occured, not during.

That said, I know of someone who drank 2-4 beers a day while taking M1T for a month. His liver enzyme values were completely normal three weeks after. On the other hand, a guy on another board also took M1t for a month, no alcohol, and monitored his values every couple of days (he worked in a lab). Everything looked fine. The last week of the cycle he binged drank, and took some recreational drugs. He didn't elaborate on how much alcohol, or what kind of drugs, but his liver enzymes SOARED after this episode. He was sweating bullets until they finally started coming down, a few WEEKS later. So moral of the story is the only way you'll truly know is to have those blood tests done.

Safe bet is just to avoid alcohol. Limit to 2-3 drinks on the weekends.

yep so true.. you never know if you have a weak liver or not.. after all some smokers smoke like a chimney and live to be 100 and others smoke occasionally and get lung cancer..

Plus why drink when you are trying to gain muscle it'll just slow down your progress.. to me I look at it as if I drink that last workout won't be as effective as it could be..

I won't be touching a drink till mid-summer most likely as I will be starting a loooong cycle..

Originally posted by Power Rabbit
milk thistle is NOT the smokeing gun of liver safety....its shown to have reduced liver values after many months of continual useage...also, these liver value reductions are very minimal........you wont see any "liver protection " in the few months from when you start takeing it, and really you wont ever see it...you will see slightly reduced umbers on a liver test and thats it


think about this on a logical level....if milk thistle was the super liver saver that people over react and say it is, why dosent it get prescribed to people with failing or cirrosised livers?

\

Just curious is there any supplement that really helps??????

no not really...but every little bit helps

My opinion is drinking alcohol while using a PH/steroid is reckless, not to mention if you're serious about gaining size, hence the reason you're taking a PH/steroid, why hinder your gains, or cause further liver/health damage?

You need to make a choice, figure out what your priorities are. If you cannot stop drinking, then forget using PH's and steroids until you become more dedicated and disciplined.

Like they all said.

If your truly interested in your body, youll keep alocohol to minimal levels all year round anyways. Surely it wont be too hard to take, say a month off from drinking so you can put some improvement on your body.

i repeat is there any supplement that really helps the liver?

Originally posted by dilligaf
Can you still drink, say beer, with M1T stacked with Milk Thistle? I know the Milk Thistle offers some support for the liver, but is it enough to keep you safe if you drink on short cycles???

NO. This is a very bad idea. Do not do it. Alcohol is very hard on the liver. Alcohol alone usually isn't a problem except with alcoholics and such because the liver is able to recover quickly after an insult. But adding on M1T is just a very bad idea. Take the milk thistle but keep in mind that it doesn't license recklessness, treat the cycle just as you would if you weren't taking milk thistle.

Originally posted by Mudge
Glucorell R (r-ALA not s-ALA, if you buy plain old ALA it will be a race-mix) is supposed to be great for the liver but I have no idea if there are sides at higher doses than normal.

ALA is pretty safe in high doses but it can cause pretty pronounced hypoglycemia in many cases. I have also heard some reports of hypoglycemia caused by androgens. I think low-dose during cycle and then high dose (a gram or so) for the first few days of recovery may be a good idea.

Originally posted by Power Rabbit
think about this on a logical level....if milk thistle was the super liver saver that people over react and say it is, why dosent it get prescribed to people with failing or cirrosised livers?

It is. In Europe and Asia it is regularly prescribed in cases of alcoholic liver disease, liver cirrhosis, and sometimes hepatitis B and C; in all of these cases (except hepatitis B, to my knowledge) it has been studied in placebo-controlled tirals and been shown to have at least some beneficial effect and in some cases a pretty pronounced benefit. It is also standard treatment for acute liver poisoning from some amanita mushrooms.

Originally posted by JerseyDevil
Amen to that. People seem to think taking a herb is going to protect their liver from abuse, and that is sad because at best, it will only *help* the liver repair itself after the abuse has occured, not during.

No, it has a strong preventative effect. Obviously this is hard to show in human studies because it is unethical to administer it along with a liver toxin, they'll do it after the fact. But in studies in non-human primates (using alcohol) and other animals it is very helpful for both prevention and recovery.

But I agree with all these sentiments still because if there is anything the research tells us it is that some subjects just don't respond well to silymarin/silibinin/milk thistle treatment. And I don't think this is something you want to gamble with anyway.

Originally posted by topolo
i repeat is there any supplement that really helps the liver?

Milk thistle is the only one I have really studied, but I'm pretty sure there are varying degrees of positive data in humans on NAC, licorice, catechins, and probably others. If you look at animal studies there are a ton.

You can't say whether any of these "really helps" without a standard for evaluation though, you can only say with various degrees of certainty. In many animal studies, there are substances that are stronger hepatoprotectants than milk thistle, but I still put milk thistle first because with these substances human research is nonexistent.

Originally posted by David Tolson
It is. In Europe and Asia it is regularly prescribed in cases of alcoholic liver disease, liver cirrhosis, and sometimes hepatitis B and C; in all of these cases (except hepatitis B, to my knowledge) it has been studied in placebo-controlled tirals and been shown to have at least some beneficial effect and in some cases a pretty pronounced benefit. It is also standard treatment for acute liver poisoning from some amanita mushrooms.

really ive never seen a case study or journal that reported anything pronounced

many research articles ive read can be found on this page

http://www.chiro.org/nutrition/M_thistle.shtml

thanks power