Thread: increase free test w/o drugs

I'll move this to the diet forum, hopefully more NATURAL people will see it there versus anabolic people.

I have heard garlic bumps test

Tribulus (an herb) will, but not enough to be anabolic, enough for an increased libido, that's about it.

http://www.iherb.com/iherb/tribulus.html

http://www.bulknutrition.com/?cPath=55

Originally posted by Prince
Tribulus (an herb) will, but not enough to be anabolic, enough for an increased libido, that's about it.

Have you seen any data that proves this?

I am 99% certain that is false (the increase test part). It does increase libido (anecdotally) but that does not mean test levels have increased.

much thanks, you guys are always helpful.

btw premier, be careful w/iherb. I used to get stuff there all the time, but once I got an already opened package...that was the end of that. they charge you double on their list price "NOW maltdextrin" too. i can get a 5lb container of malto. from 1fast400 for about 12$. they sell 2 lb containers of the exact same brand, for 8$ @ iherb.

Never bought from them, I just posted the first listing that I came up with on a search.

Originally posted by PreMier
Never bought from them, I just posted the first listing that I came up with on a search.

be glad you didn't
thanks again though.

Originally posted by Twin Peak
Have you seen any data that proves this?

I am 99% certain that is false (the increase test part). It does increase libido (anecdotally) but that does not mean test levels have increased.

no, but I have used it in the past and had an increased libido when using it, is that good enough, or are you going to chalk that up as the placebo effect?

Originally posted by Prince
no, but I have used it in the past and had an increased libido when using it, is that good enough, or are you going to chalk that up as the placebo effect?

meow

Originally posted by Prince
no, but I have used it in the past and had an increased libido when using it, is that good enough, or are you going to chalk that up as the placebo effect?

Sensitive, aren't we? I'll chalk it up to pre-contest dieting.

Prince, why don't youy reread my post. I stated:

(1) Users report an increase in libido.

(2) There is no evidence (to my knowledge) that trib increases test levels.

(3) The fact that libido is increased is not indicative of the fact that test levels have increased.

If you dispute (3) you are using faulty logic. Many things increase libido and have no effect on test levels.

Because of (1) - (3) I was asking (rather nicely, I may add) whether you were aware of any evidence proving your statement that trib raises test levels (even marginally).

I see now that the answer is no.

http://www.t-mag.com/html/body_105truth.html
Although, I can´t find any valid study about this herb.

read through the new issue of flex..i think it was flex...it gives 8 or 12 foods that naturally increase ur test levels

Originally posted by Twin Peak
Sensitive, aren't we? I'll chalk it up to pre-contest dieting.

Prince, why don't youy reread my post. I stated:

(1) Users report an increase in libido.

(2) There is no evidence (to my knowledge) that trib increases test levels.

(3) The fact that libido is increased is not indicative of the fact that test levels have increased.

If you dispute (3) you are using faulty logic. Many things increase libido and have no effect on test levels.

Because of (1) - (3) I was asking (rather nicely, I may add) whether you were aware of any evidence proving your statement that trib raises test levels (even marginally).

I see now that the answer is no.

I just get tired of people completely discounting other's experiences. I am not some kid that just started lifting weights and popping magical pills.

I know my body extremely well, and I can tell you that when I used Tribulus (this was around 2 years ago) I experienced an increased libido.

As far as any real scientific controlled studies, no, I know of none.

Does that negate my personal experiences though? I do not think so.

Maybe I should restate my response:

When I used Tribulus I experienced an increased libido and I attributed this to using Tribulus, and I believe that it actually did increase my LH levels, hence increasing testosterone. Although I cannot validate this in any way, I did not have any tests done to measure LH and T levels before, during or after using Tribulus.

that better?

Not really no.

You seem to be missing my point. Yes, I am sure it did increase your libido.

But that is NOT indicative of increase test levels.

And you can't feel your test levels increasing, no matter how experienced you are.

I've been on a damn lot of test and you dont feel that different.

I do remember one study showing that trib was bunk, it was posted here at least once.

Originally posted by Twin Peak
And you can't feel your test levels increasing, no matter how experienced you are.

I never said I could feel my T levels increasing, I said my libido increased (yes, I can feel that), and I concluded that this was from an increase in testosterone, but I have no scientific data to prove that.

And I never questioned that trib increased your libido.

Indeed, my first post I agreed with you and stated that many reported such was the case.

My only inquiry was regarding its ability to raise test levels.

this is the best I can find:


Tribulus Terrestris
http://www.ironmagazine.com/review16.html


Description:
Tribulus (puncture vine) is a vine that has been used as a general tonic (energy) and herbal treatment for impotence, but is found primarily in dietary supplements marketed for increasing testosterone levels in bodybuilders and power athletes.

Claims:
Increased testosterone production
Increased muscle mass/strength

Theory:
The idea behind tribulus is that it may increase testosterone levels indirectly by raising blood levels of another hormone, luteinizing hormone (LH). LH is a hormone produced by the pituitary gland and plays a role in regulating natural testosterone production and serum levels.

Scientific Support:
The active ingredient in tribulus is unknown, but is though to be a component known as furostanol saponins. There has been very little research conducted on the effectiveness of tribulus in elevating testosterone levels – the main claim made by body building products which contain the herb. In some cultures, the tribulus terrestris plant has been used as a "tonic" to in crease energy levels and treat sexual dysfunction (usually in males). In animals, tribulus may stimulate "mounting" behavior. Some European studies suggest that tribulus extract can increase testosterone levels 30-50% above baseline levels – but still well within the normal range. Unfortunately, however, these same studies also suggest a similar increase in estradiol levels – not exactly what the hardcore muscle builders should be interested in boosting

If tribulus extract does indeed elevate testosterone levels somewhat, but keeps them within normal ranges, it may be an effective supplement for individuals with reduced testosterone levels such as athletes at risk for overtraining syndrome and in those individuals on a prolonged low-calorie diet. It will not, however, cause you to start sprouting muscles from all parts of your body, as many body building mags would have you believe.

In one of the few well-controlled studies to examine the effects of tribulus terrestris on body composition and exercise performance looked at 15 resistance-trained males. Subjects received either a placebo or a large dose of tribulus (1.5mg per pound of body weight per day for 2 months). Results showed no changes in body weight, percentage fat, total muscle mass or muscle strength related to tribulus supplementation.

Safety:
Although no significant side effects should be expected at doses of tribulus contained in commercial dietary supplements, animal studies have suggested the possibility of locomotor (muscle coordination) disturbances following ingestion of tribulus in high quantities. In sheep consuming tribulus plant for several months, neurological disease was characterized by an irreversible, asymmetrical, weakness of the hindlimbs.

Value:
Products containing tribulus are typically marketed to bodybuilders and athletes concerned with increasing muscle mass and strength. Although such products are typically combinations of ingredients which include tribulus, rather than tribulus alone, the scientific evidence for product effectiveness is typically lacking. At this time, Supplement Watch does not view tribulus extract (on its own) as a valuable dietary supplement for muscle building. As a support ingredient contained in a wider supplement blend, tribulus may provide some benefits to those individuals interested in maintaining testosterone levels in the normal range (overtrained athletes and dieters).

Dosage:
A typical dosage of 250-1500 mg of tribulus per day is fairly common. Be sure to choose an extract standardized for at least 30-45% steroidal saponins (furostanol).


References:
1. Antonio J, Uelmen J, Rodriguez R, Earnest C. The effects of Tribulus terrestris on body composition and exercise performance in resistance-trained males. Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2000 Jun;10(2):208-15.
2. Arcasoy HB, Erenmemisoglu A, Tekol Y, Kurucu S, Kartal M. Effect of Tribulus terrestris L. saponin mixture on some smooth muscle preparations: a preliminary study. Boll Chim Farm. 1998 Dec;137(11):473-5.
3. Bourke CA. Hepatopathy in sheep associated with Tribulus terrestris. Aust Vet J. 1983 Jun;60(6):189.
4. Bourke CA. Staggers in sheep associated with the ingestion of Tribulus terrestris. Aust Vet J. 1984 Nov;61(11):360-3.
5. Duhan A, Chauhan BM, Punia D. Nutritional value of some non-conventional plant foods of India. Plant Foods Hum Nutr. 1992 Jul;42(3):193-200.
6. Wu G, Jiang S, Jiang F, Zhu D, Wu H, Jiang S. Steroidal glycosides from Tribulus terrestris. Phytochemistry. 1996 Aug;42(6):1677-81.
7. Xu YX, Chen HS, Liang HQ, Gu ZB, Liu WY, Leung WN, Li TJ. Three new saponins from Tribulus terrestris. Planta Med. 2000 Aug;66(6):545-50.
8. Yan W, Ohtani K, Kasai R, Yamasaki K. Steroidal saponins from fruits of Tribulus terrestris. Phytochemistry. 1996 Jul;42(5):1417-22.

Copyright 2001, SupplementWatch, Inc. - www.supplementwatch.com


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Tribulus Information
By David Tolson
http://www.bulknutrition.com/?ingredients_id=52


Tribulus terrestris L., a member of the Zygophyllaceae family, is an annual herb found in many areas of the world, including the US and Mexico, the Mediterranian region, and throughout Asia [1-4]. It is also used in the folk medicine of many areas, such as India, China, and Turkey [1, 3]. Traditional uses include treatment of sexual impotency, edema, abdominal distention, cardiovascular disease, kidney problems, and as a cough remedy [1, 3]. It also has a reputation for having anabolic effects in some areas of the world [4]. A large amount of potential active components have been identified in tribulus, including steroidal saponins, lignanamides, alkaloids, and flavanoids [5]. The amount of these components can vary significantly based on the region of origin and the part of the plant used [1-2]. HPLC analysis of different tribulus supplements revealed significant product-to-product variations in active ingredients [4], presumably due to different regions of origin. The current research indicates that the steroidal saponins, particularly the dominant saponin protodioscin, are responsible for the pharmacological activities of tribulus [4].

One of the most well-known properties of tribulus is as an aphrodisiac, and as a putative testosterone elevator. Tribulus does increase sexual function in animal models, and also reportedly improves libido in humans [6-7]. However, this is not necessarily indicative of a testosterone-increasing effect – there are other possible reasons, such as the hypotensive effect of tribulus. There is limited information regarding the effect tribulus ultimately has on testosterone levels. Translated Bulgarian research indicates that tribulus increased testosterone and luteinizing hormone (LH) levels in depressed men who were part of infertile couples [8]. When protodioscin is administered to castrated rats, it increases levels of testosterone, LH, DHEA, and DHT [7].

Two mechanisms have been proposed for these increases – the first being that protodioscin directly increases LH, and the second being that protodioscin increases levels of DHEA (which would ultimately mildly increase testosterone), perhaps by functioning as a precursor [3, 9]. The neural effects of DHEA would also explain the aphrodisiac properties [7]. However, it should be noted that if the latter is the case, it would open the possibility that tribulus could ultimately lead to lower natural production of testosterone. The ultimate effect of tribulus on testosterone levels in healthy humans, and consequently the effect on body composition and exercise performance, remains to be seen. The present research is not promising – a trial in fifteen resistance trained subjects found that tribulus did not improve body composition or strength over an eight week period [10]. On the other hand, this trial may not have even used a tribulus extract with adequate quantities of the active ingredients.

There has also been clinical research on the use of tribulus in many medical conditions, usually with positive results. Biological properties of tribulus extracts include diuretic properties, increased endothelial nitric oxide, direct smooth muscle relaxant effects, and ACE inhibition [2, 11]. In vitro, tribulus also inhibits COX-2 [12]. Cardiovascular conditions in which tribulus has showed promise include high blood pressure, high cholesterol, coronary heart disease, and angina pectoris [2-3, 13]. In both normal and diabetic mice, tribulus decreases serum glucose, perhaps by inhibiting gluconeogenesis [14-15]. Tribulus also inhibits stone formation in experimental animals [3] and may have hepatoprotective properties [16]. It may also be useful in the treatment of vitiligo and bacterial infections [3]. A number of other uses have been reported in traditional medical systems.

In human trials using tribulus, it has been reported as safe and side effect free [2-3, 17]. One trial reported no negative effect on the circulatory system or hepatic and renal function [17]. Toxic effects have been observed in sheep fed large amounts of tribulus [18], but are not likely to be applicable to normal supplemental use by humans. The LD50 of tribulus-derived saponins in mice is 813 mg/kg, which is considerably higher than the commonly used dose (which rarely exceeds more than a gram daily of saponins). In conclusion, tribulus is a relatively safe supplement that has aphrodisiac properties and may be beneficial to the cardiovascular system. The effect on testosterone levels and related variables is not well established.


References:
1. Fitoterapia. 2003 Sep;74(6):583-91. Furostanol saponins from Tribulus terrestris. De Combarieu E, Fuzzati N, Lovati M, Mercalli E.
2. Life Sci. 2003 Oct 24;73(23):2963-71. Study of antihypertensive mechanism of Tribulus terrestris in 2K1C hypertensive rats: role of tissue ACE activity. Sharifi AM, Darabi R, Akbarloo N.
3. J Ethnopharmacol. 2003 Apr;85(2-3):257-60. Tribulus terrestris: preliminary study of its diuretic and contractile effects and comparison with Zea mays. Al-Ali M, Wahbi S, Twaij H, Al-Badr A.
4. J Pharm Sci. 2001 Nov;90(11):1752-8. Determination of steroidal saponins in Tribulus terrestris by reversed-phase high-performance liquid chromatography and evaporative light scattering detection. Ganzera M, Bedir E, Khan IA.
5. J Nat Prod. 2000 Dec;63(12):1699-701. New steroidal glycosides from the fruits of Tribulus terrestris. Bedir E, Khan IA.
6. Ann Acad Med Singapore. 2000 Jan;29(1):22-6. Proerectile pharmacological effects of Tribulus terrestris extract on the rabbit corpus cavernosum. Adaikan PG, Gauthaman K, Prasad RN, Ng SC.
7. Life Sci. 2002 Aug 9;71(12):1385-96. Aphrodisiac properties of Tribulus Terrestris extract (Protodioscin) in normal and castrated rats. Gauthaman K, Adaikan PG, Prasad RN.
8. Am J Clin Nutr. 2000 Aug;72(2 Suppl):624S-36S. Selected herbals and human exercise performance. Bucci LR.
9. J Am Coll Nutr. 2001 Oct;20(5):520-8. Endocrine and lipid responses to chronic androstenediol-herbal supplementation in 30 to 58 year old men. Brown GA, Vukovich MD, Martini ER, Kohut ML, Franke WD, Jackson DA, King DS.
10. Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2000 Jun;10(2):208-15. The effects of Tribulus terrestris on body composition and exercise performance in resistance-trained males. Antonio J, Uelmen J, Rodriguez R, Earnest C.
11. Boll Chim Farm. 1998 Dec;137(11):473-5. Effect of Tribulus terrestris L. saponin mixture on some smooth muscle preparations: a preliminary study. Arcasoy HB, Erenmemisoglu A, Tekol Y, Kurucu S, Kartal M.
12. J Ethnopharmacol. 2002 Nov;83(1-2):153-9. Evaluation of natural products on inhibition of inducible cyclooxygenase (COX-2) and nitric oxide synthase (iNOS) in cultured mouse macrophage cells. Hong CH, Hur SK, Oh OJ, Kim SS, Nam KA, Lee SK.
13. Zhong Yao Cai. 2003 May;26(5):341-4. [Effect of saponin from Tribulus terrestris on hyperlipidemia] [Article in Chinese] Chu S, Qu W, Pang X, Sun B, Huang X.
14. Zhong Yao Cai. 2002 Jun;25(6):420-2. [Hypoglycemic effect of saponin from Tribulus terrestris] [Article in Chinese] Li M, Qu W, Wang Y, Wan H, Tian C.
15. Zhong Yao Cai. 2001 Aug;24(8):586-8. [Effect of the decoction of tribulus terrestris on mice gluconeogenesis] [Article in Chinese] Li M, Qu W, Chu S, Wang H, Tian C, Tu M.
16. Planta Med. 1998 Oct;64(7):628-31. Tribulusamide A and B, new hepatoprotective lignanamides from the fruits of Tribulus terrestris: indications of cytoprotective activity in murine hepatocyte culture. Li JX, Shi Q, Xiong QB, Prasain JK, Tezuka Y, Hareyama T, Wang ZT, Tanaka K, Namba T, Kadota S.
17. Zhong Xi Yi Jie He Za Zhi. 1990 Feb;10(2):85-7, 68. [406 cases of angina pectoris in coronary heart disease treated with saponin of Tribulus terrestris] [Article in Chinese] Wang B, Ma L, Liu T.
18. Vet Res Commun. 2003 Jan;27(1):53-62. Experimental Tribulus terrestris poisoning in sheep: clinical, laboratory and pathological findings. Aslani MR, Movassaghi AR, Mohri M, Pedram M, Abavisani A.