Dumb question on M1T and 4AD

darklight · 05-04-2004, 09:23 AM

Thought on running like this:

week 1-4 M1T (range of 10-15 mg)
week 1-6 4AD trensdermall (600 mg)
pct with nolva!

The question is that i sould start nolva at the end of m1t or at the end of 4ad?

By the way, how would this sound as a better choice?

week 1-6 4AD (600 mg)
week 2-6 M1T (10/15 mg)
then pct!

darklight · 05-04-2004, 11:42 AM

kevin · 05-04-2004, 02:57 PM

run the PCT after you are finished with everything. I ran 4 weeks of m1t with a transdermal 4ad and saw great results. I would use the m1t at the beginning of the cycle. From what i've read, the 4ad wont kick in for a few weeks anyway, so you might as well get the ball rolling with the m1t in the beginning.

Power Rabbit · 05-04-2004, 05:02 PM

yup hes right...pct comes after everything, and m1t should be at the beginning to kickstart

darklight · 05-04-2004, 05:09 PM

thks!
Gonna start with this one in a few days!

week 1-6 4AD (600 mg)
week 2-6 M1T (10/15 mg)
then pct!

(Q10 and Pro Liver also)

JerseyDevil · 05-04-2004, 07:13 PM

Week 1-4 M1T (range of 10-15 mg)
Week 1-6 4AD transdermal (600 mg)
pct with nolva

This cycle is the better choice. 4 weeks is the longest you want to run M1T. 6 weeks on 4AD is perfect. Run pct with nolva at the end of week 6.

topolo · 05-04-2004, 07:33 PM

and you are right that was a dumb question

darklight · 05-04-2004, 07:54 PM

Wrong "copy/past" from the #1 post, thks for the rectification Jersey!

JerseyDevil · 05-04-2004, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by topolo
and you are right that was a dumb question

There is no such thing as a dumb question... only dumb answers. And this post is a case in point.

topolo · 05-04-2004, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JerseyDevil
There is no such thing as a dumb question... only dumb answers. And this post is a case in point.

He made the comment......I only agreed with him.........back off

JerseyDevil · 05-05-2004, 05:08 AM

The world is now a better place, since you offered the original poster that meaningful comment. I stand corrected.

billyzane1 · 05-05-2004, 08:03 AM

Nolva? I think that is highly debateable if you really need it. It wont hurt, but why risk it.

From what 90% of the people out there say, 6oxo is fine for short M1T cyles.

Its your call of course.

Larva · 05-05-2004, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by billyzane1
Nolva? I think that is highly debateable if you really need it. It wont hurt, but why risk it.

risk what??

billyzane1 · 05-05-2004, 08:17 AM

Unless you have a prescription, one would be breaking the law.

JerseyDevil · 05-05-2004, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by billyzane1
Nolva? I think that is highly debateable if you really need it. It wont hurt, but why risk it.

From what 90% of the people out there say, 6oxo is fine for short M1T cyles.

Its your call of course.

4 weeks of M1T is not a short cycle. In fact M1T shuts down your natural testosterone production fast. Many have used 6-OXO with success, but I wouldn't risk it. Nolva is proven to work.

Nolva is one of those grey areas. While a prescription is required to obtain through a pharmacy, it is not illegal to possess.

billyzane1 · 05-05-2004, 08:45 AM

TrojanMan60563 · 05-05-2004, 11:12 AM

The one thing I am not so sure of is that everyone says M1T and methylD shut your boys down quick. Has anyone proved this? I didn't have a problem doing a 4 weeker, and I did not have shrunken nut syndrome either. I didn't lose any of my gains either. That would tell me that my natural test was not effected.

X Ring · 05-05-2004, 12:17 PM

what about running a light dose of nolva through out the cycle as some are doing with AS to keep their gains. Is there any benefit of doing this. I know it is 6 weeks and not the 10 or 16 as some other cycles might be.

JerseyDevil · 05-05-2004, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TrojanMan60563
The one thing I am not so sure of is that everyone says M1T and methylD shut your boys down quick. Has anyone proved this? I didn't have a problem doing a 4 weeker, and I did not have shrunken nut syndrome either. I didn't lose any of my gains either. That would tell me that my natural test was not effected.

On the anabolicminds.com forum a guy named supersoldier did blood work every 3 or 4 days while on a 5 week M1T cycle. He works in a lab. He kept track of liver enyzmes, cholesterol, testosterone, estradiol, and others. In just a matter of days, his test level went from 500 and something down to about 20. Yep 20, and it stayed there. If I recall correctly, it took close to 3 weeks AFTER the cycle end and using 40mg of Nolva ed before it finally started to rise again. Once it started to rise, it went quickly back to normal. Nut shrinkage is no indication on how suppressed you are. I have no idea how m-dien shuts you down, but I believe the same guy is going to document a m-dien cycle also.

JerseyDevil · 05-05-2004, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by X Ring
what about running a light dose of nolva through out the cycle as some are doing with AS to keep their gains. Is there any benefit of doing this. I know it is 6 weeks and not the 10 or 16 as some other cycles might be.

Running a light dose of nolva in a AS cycle is to help keep gyno issues at bay. Some use it to reduce bloat, but most say you need an anti 'a' like arimidex to successfully do this.

darklight · 05-05-2004, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JerseyDevil
did blood work every 3 or 4 days

That's a lot of tests at the end of the cycle...! Good to hear that someone did this!

topolo · 05-05-2004, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TrojanMan60563
The one thing I am not so sure of is that everyone says M1T and methylD shut your boys down quick. Has anyone proved this? I didn't have a problem doing a 4 weeker, and I did not have shrunken nut syndrome either. I didn't lose any of my gains either. That would tell me that my natural test was not effected.

you are lucky!!! even mild ph's like paradeca and decavar shut me down.

TrojanMan60563 · 05-05-2004, 10:03 PM

Well if I was shut down then I don't understand why I didn't lose any of my gains. Maybe it shuts some down and not others. I didn't get any sign that I was low on test. Its been 4 weeks since I stopped and I am still gaining strength and size. The Mdien made me real hard and tight. Some of that has went away but I am still gaining size and strength so I am not sold on the idea that my test levels were really effected by the 3mg of Mdien/150mg of 1-TU.

ismeefoo · 05-05-2004, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TrojanMan60563
Well if I was shut down then I don't understand why I didn't lose any of my gains. Maybe it shuts some down and not others. I didn't get any sign that I was low on test. Its been 4 weeks since I stopped and I am still gaining strength and size. The Mdien made me real hard and tight. Some of that has went away but I am still gaining size and strength so I am not sold on the idea that my test levels were really effected by the 3mg of Mdien/150mg of 1-TU.

Did you do any PCT? If so what and how long?

**Prince** · 05-05-2004, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JerseyDevil
On the anabolicminds.com forum a guy named supersoldier did blood work every 3 or 4 days while on a 5 week M1T cycle. He works in a lab. He kept track of liver enyzmes, cholesterol, testosterone, estradiol, and others. In just a matter of days, his test level went from 500 and something down to about 20. Yep 20, and it stayed there. If I recall correctly, it took close to 3 weeks AFTER the cycle end and using 40mg of Nolva ed before it finally started to rise again. Once it started to rise, it went quickly back to normal. Nut shrinkage is no indication on how suppressed you are. I have no idea how m-dien shuts you down, but I believe the same guy is going to document a m-dien cycle also.

okay, but that is the results of only ONE person.

TrojanMan60563 · 05-06-2004, 02:14 AM

I don't think skimping on PCT is smart, but I didn't go all out. The only thing I did was take 6OXO 3 pills with my protein shake before bed. Doing it this way it lasted 20 days. Thats all I did. I think the key is I lift smart and eat smart to the best of my ability. Gains are made from a good diet, and I believe that is how you keep them too(unless test levels are suppressed).

JerseyDevil · 05-06-2004, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio
okay, but that is the results of only ONE person.

True, but it is the only example I know of where a person had their testosterone levels checked throughout. For whatever reason those hormonal tests are insanely expensive, so I doubt if you'll ever see anyone else do this unless they too work in a lab.

That said, I would trust his results over anecdotal evidence like someone saying "I don't feel shut down". You know what I mean? I have had my liver enyzmes and HDL/LDL cholesterol levels checked after M1T cycles and they were normal a few weeks after. But get this, I had my testosterone levels checked as part of a routine check up, again about 3 weeks after the end of 4 week M1T/4AD cycle. It came back at 126ng/dl.... way low, and I was using Nolva pct. I am considered hypogonal btw, but my normal levels are more like 270ng/dl. Does M1t shut you down? Hell yeah it does.

JerseyDevil · 05-06-2004, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TrojanMan60563
Well if I was shut down then I don't understand why I didn't lose any of my gains. Maybe it shuts some down and not others.

I repeat. I am talking about M1T, not m-dien. Many assume m-dien shuts you down just as much as M1t in the same period of time, but that may not be the case.

Why didn't you lose your gains if you were shut down? As I'm sure you know, a long AAS cycle definitely shuts you down. If you do proper pct, training and diet, you should keep most of your gains. Now to keep gaining size and strength, with most people that would be unusual.

snoops · 10-02-2004, 09:39 PM

I was wondering, since my bottle of vpx's monster test says only take for 2 weeks, how long you any of you would suggest taking it

Purdue Power · 10-03-2004, 04:13 AM

As repeatedly stated in any thread that would come up in an M1T search, 3 weeks.

05-04-2004, 11:42 AM	#2
darklight Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 185	bump

05-05-2004, 05:08 AM	#11
JerseyDevil GO Buckeyes! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Southern, NJ Posts: 5,586	The world is now a better place, since you offered the original poster that meaningful comment. I stand corrected. Last edited by JerseyDevil : 05-05-2004 at 07:26 AM.

05-05-2004, 08:45 AM	#16
billyzane1 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 80	cool

10-03-2004, 04:13 AM	#30
Purdue Power Good Enough Never Is Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Purdue University Posts: 1,351 Photos: 5	As repeatedly stated in any thread that would come up in an M1T search, 3 weeks. 5'8 1/2, 225lbs Your M1T Info Source Dream as though you'll live forever, Live each day like it's you last. Love like you've never been hurt. Tomorrow is never promised.

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05-04-2004, 09:23 AM	#1
darklight Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 185	Dumb question on M1T and 4AD Thought on running like this: week 1-4 M1T (range of 10-15 mg) week 1-6 4AD trensdermall (600 mg) pct with nolva! The question is that i sould start nolva at the end of m1t or at the end of 4ad? By the way, how would this sound as a better choice? week 1-6 4AD (600 mg) week 2-6 M1T (10/15 mg) then pct! Last edited by darklight : 05-04-2004 at 05:07 PM.

05-04-2004, 02:57 PM	#3
kevin Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 34	run the PCT after you are finished with everything. I ran 4 weeks of m1t with a transdermal 4ad and saw great results. I would use the m1t at the beginning of the cycle. From what i've read, the 4ad wont kick in for a few weeks anyway, so you might as well get the ball rolling with the m1t in the beginning.

05-04-2004, 05:02 PM	#4
Power Rabbit The Bunny Is Bulking! Elite Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,027 Photos: 3	yup hes right...pct comes after everything, and m1t should be at the beginning to kickstart

05-04-2004, 05:09 PM	#5
darklight Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 185	thks! Gonna start with this one in a few days! week 1-6 4AD (600 mg) week 2-6 M1T (10/15 mg) then pct! (Q10 and Pro Liver also)

05-04-2004, 07:13 PM	#6
JerseyDevil GO Buckeyes! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Southern, NJ Posts: 5,586	Week 1-4 M1T (range of 10-15 mg) Week 1-6 4AD transdermal (600 mg) pct with nolva This cycle is the better choice. 4 weeks is the longest you want to run M1T. 6 weeks on 4AD is perfect. Run pct with nolva at the end of week 6.

05-04-2004, 07:54 PM	#8
darklight Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 185	Wrong "copy/past" from the #1 post, thks for the rectification Jersey!

05-05-2004, 08:03 AM	#12
billyzane1 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 80	Nolva? I think that is highly debateable if you really need it. It wont hurt, but why risk it. From what 90% of the people out there say, 6oxo is fine for short M1T cyles. Its your call of course.

05-05-2004, 08:17 AM	#14
billyzane1 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 80	Unless you have a prescription, one would be breaking the law.

05-05-2004, 11:12 AM	#17
TrojanMan60563 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: The U-S of A Posts: 3,391 Photos: 1	The one thing I am not so sure of is that everyone says M1T and methylD shut your boys down quick. Has anyone proved this? I didn't have a problem doing a 4 weeker, and I did not have shrunken nut syndrome either. I didn't lose any of my gains either. That would tell me that my natural test was not effected.

05-05-2004, 12:17 PM	#18
X Ring training to be Goku Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: New England Posts: 696	what about running a light dose of nolva through out the cycle as some are doing with AS to keep their gains. Is there any benefit of doing this. I know it is 6 weeks and not the 10 or 16 as some other cycles might be.

05-05-2004, 10:03 PM	#23
TrojanMan60563 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: The U-S of A Posts: 3,391 Photos: 1	Well if I was shut down then I don't understand why I didn't lose any of my gains. Maybe it shuts some down and not others. I didn't get any sign that I was low on test. Its been 4 weeks since I stopped and I am still gaining strength and size. The Mdien made me real hard and tight. Some of that has went away but I am still gaining size and strength so I am not sold on the idea that my test levels were really effected by the 3mg of Mdien/150mg of 1-TU.

05-06-2004, 02:14 AM	#26
TrojanMan60563 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: The U-S of A Posts: 3,391 Photos: 1	I don't think skimping on PCT is smart, but I didn't go all out. The only thing I did was take 6OXO 3 pills with my protein shake before bed. Doing it this way it lasted 20 days. Thats all I did. I think the key is I lift smart and eat smart to the best of my ability. Gains are made from a good diet, and I believe that is how you keep them too(unless test levels are suppressed).

10-02-2004, 09:39 PM	#29
snoops Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 181	I was wondering, since my bottle of vpx's monster test says only take for 2 weeks, how long you any of you would suggest taking it