Depression, cortisol and drugs to reduce it

Vieope · 05-21-2004, 07:10 PM

I have been reading about depression and found out that high cortisol levels and depression walk together.

Quote:

Additional research data indicate that people suffering from depression have imbalances of neurotransmitters, natural substances that allow brain cells to communicate with one another. Two transmitters implicated in depression are serotonin and norepinephrine. Scientists think a deficiency in serotonin may cause the sleep problems, irritability, and anxiety associated with depression. Likewise, a decreased amount of norepinephrine, which regulates alertness and arousal, may contribute to the fatigue and depressed mood of the illness.
Other body chemicals also may be altered in depressed people. Among them is cortisol, a hormone that the body produces in response to stress, anger, or fear. In normal people the level of cortisol in the bloodstream peaks in the morning, then decreases as the day progresses. In depressed people, however, cortisol peaks earlier in the morning and does not level off or decrease in the afternoon or evening.
Researchers don't know if these imbalances cause the disease or if the illness gives rise to the imbalances. They do know that cortisol levels will increase in anyone who must live with long-term stress.

In other study I read that a drug called ketoconazole reduce cortisol leves by 70%. It is not the only drug that reduce cortisol levels more than 50%.
What do you think about these drugs that reduce cortisol ?

**Dale Mabry** · 05-21-2004, 07:26 PM

Ketoconazole is not something you want in your body, there are a bunch of systemic side effects that you can get which is why it is not used for anything anymore with the exception of dandruff shampoo.

Vieope · 05-21-2004, 07:37 PM

I just looked more information about it. It seems that it is still used as a cream to threat severe problems in the skin.
There are a lot of drugs to reduce cortisol, do you know a good one?

LAM · 05-21-2004, 07:48 PM

I know for fact that there are no GOOD OTC supplements to reduce cortisol. just about the only thing that is safe is taking 1000 mg of Vitamin C 3x a day. there have been studies in both human and rat trials that been proven that Vitamin C reduces cortisol levels..

Vieope · 05-21-2004, 08:16 PM

I didn´t know about Vitamin C and cortisol levels, that is interesting.
Let´s not talk about OTC supplements anymore.

LAM · 05-21-2004, 08:22 PM

I don't know of any presciption meds that lower cortisol. if there WAS bb'ers would have been ALL over them and we would have heard about it by now...

Monolith · 05-21-2004, 08:33 PM

phosphatidyl serine

7keto

Vieope · 05-21-2004, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LAM
I don't know of any presciption meds that lower cortisol. if there WAS bb'ers would have been ALL over them and we would have heard about it by now...

I think they exist. The treatment for depression that lower cortisol levels is called antiglucocorticoid therapy. It is quite new though.

Monolith · 05-21-2004, 08:45 PM

V, you might find this interesting:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t_uids=9264159

Vieope · 05-21-2004, 08:48 PM

Exactly, I was just reading this.

tomas101 · 05-22-2004, 12:17 AM

RELACORE is supposed to reduce cortisol

**Dale Mabry** · 05-22-2004, 10:04 AM

Phosphatidylseine is the only supplement that has any clinical research supporting it. I have used it before when cutting and it eliminated the ammonia smell of my sweat that I get whil dieting severely. I guess that is a product of muscle breakdown. Here is a link to the PS research, you have to take a buttload of it to get an effect. Bulknutrition has the best deal on it last time I checked.

http://www.supplementwatch.com/supat...pplementId=215

As for 7 keto, there is no research supporting it and i have no idea if it actually suppresses cortisol, but I have used Absolved which has it and it worked out very well for me.

LAM · 05-22-2004, 10:56 AM

Here's some more info that I found on another site. the author engineers nutritional supplements...

"I will comment on the most common or “currently popular” cortisol blocker being marketed - Phosphatidylserine (PS) is a member of a special category of fat-soluble substances called phospholipids, which are essential components of cell membranes. PS is found in high concentrations in the brain. According to double-blind studies, PS may help preserve, or even improve, some aspects of mental functioning in the elderly when taken in the amount of 300 mg per day for three to six months. PS is only found in small trace amounts in a typical diet. PS is not an essential nutrient, and therefore dietary deficiencies do not occur.

Most research has been conducted with PS derived from bovine (cow) brain tissue. Due to concerns about the transfer “mad cow” to humans - bovine PS is not available in the United States. However is should also be noted that the soy- and bovine-derived PS are not structurally identical. Doctors and researchers have debated whether the structural differences could be important - but so far only a few trials have studied the effects of soy-based PS.

Preliminary animal research shows that the soy-derived PS does have effects on brain function similar to effects from the bovine source. An isolated unpublished double-blind human study used soy-derived PS in an evaluation of memory and mood benefits in non-demented, non-depressed elderly people with impaired memories and accompanying depression. In this three-month study, 300 mg per day of PS was not significantly more effective than a placebo.

Clinical trials have all been related to brain and memory function and not to use as a cortisol blocker – additionally the soy based version of PS – which is all that is available in the US has shown little to no effectiveness. There are varied products currently on the market that all contain either straight PS or combinations of PS with glutamine peptides. None of these combinations in my opinion are worthy of the price. One study that could “loosely” and I mean loosely be applied to PS use in cortisol management was as published study titled: Effects of phosphatidylserine on the neuroendocrine response to physical stress in humans. Conducted by Monteleone P, Beinat L, Tanzillo C, Maj M, Kemali D. at the Institute of Medical Psychology and Psychiatry, First Medical School, University of Naples, Italy. The abstract of the study stated that the activity of brain cortex-derived phosphatidylserine (BC-PS) on the neuroendocrine and neurovegetative responses to physical stress was tested in 8 healthy men who underwent three experiments with a bicycle ergometer. According to a double-blind design, before starting the exercise, each subject received intravenously, within 10 min, 50 or 75 mg of BC-PS or a volume-matched placebo diluted in 100 ml of saline. Blood samples were collected before and after the exercise for plasma epinephrine (E), norepinephrine (NE), dopamine (DA), adrenocorticotropin (ACTH), cortisol, growth hormone (GH), prolactin (PRL) and glucose determinations. Blood pressure and heart rate were also recorded. Physical stress induced a clear-cut increase in plasma E, NE, ACTH, cortisol, GH and PRL, whereas no significant change was observed in plasma DA and glucose. Pretreatment with both 50 and 75 mg BC-PS significantly blunted the ACTH and cortisol responses to physical stress.

Now this study shows indication that PS – derived from brain stem (which is NOT available) did show positive “blunting” of cortisol activity when the dose was administered intravenously – meaning injected straight into the blood stream – not being subjected to passing through the digestive tract…..hence my “loosely”. Taking a soy derived (not brain stem derived) supplement orally is NOT the same as how and what was used in the study. The soy based PS has been studied very little – and only in regards to memory and Alzhiemer’s treatment."

**Dale Mabry** · 05-22-2004, 01:00 PM

The researchers then conducted an additional experiment on nine men using an oral daily dose of 400 or 800 mg of PS or a placebo for 10 days prior to exercise. The research team found that, compared to placebo, the plasma cortisol response to exercise was about 16 percent lower for the 400 mg dose of PS and 30 percent lower for the 800 mg dose. These findings show that, in healthy people, PS can lessen the severity of the stress response to exercise.2

Thomas Fahey, Ed.D., of California State University, Chico, conducted the third and most recent trial. In this double-blind, crossover study, 11 weight-trained college students were given 800 mg of oral PS or a placebo daily for two weeks. During this time, they participated in a vigorous, whole-body weight workout four times per week--a regimen intentionally designed to overtrain them. After a three-week washout period, the athletes switched treatments and repeated the workout program for another two weeks.

During both legs of the experiment, researchers took blood samples from the athletes 15 minutes after the eighth workout. After this last workout, cortisol levels were 20 percent lower in the subjects taking PS. Also, while taking PS, subjects did not show the 20 percent drop in testosterone levels that occurred when they took the placebo. Exit interviews showed that the subjects taking PS felt better, had less muscle soreness, and their perceived exertion dropped.

Blood samples taken 24 hours after the workouts also showed that overtraining did not affect long-term elevation of cortisol levels in either group. This suggests that individuals may reach homeostasis during the 24 hours after hard training and that intense training does not cause an extended increase in cortisol levels.3 Fahey's research also indicates that 800 mg of PS may effectively suppress cortisol and diminish muscle soreness.

PS-induced cortisol reductions as reported in these studies could potentially improve muscle building and hasten an athlete's recovery after a hard workout. Cortisol can halt protein synthesis, so by dampening an exercise-induced cortisol burst, PS may also increase an athlete's post-workout uptake of amino acids.4 This, in turn, may improve the effectiveness of carbohydrate and protein powder drinks.

Outside of this effect, PS also can enhance the effectiveness of high-calorie drinks by promoting homeostasis within the body's cells. PS supports the proteins that manage cell membrane functions--nutrient entry, waste exit, ion movement and cell-to-cell communications--by literally anchoring them in the cell membrane matrix so they function optimally.5

The body can make PS, but only through a complex series of reactions that use a lot of energy. For this reason, PS is sometimes referred to as a "semiessential" nutrient--one the body cannot make in sufficient amounts in times of stress. Trace amounts occur in soy products and muscle meats, but according to rough estimates, average PS dietary intake barely amounts to more than 80 mg per day. Clinical doses range from 200 to 800 mg per day. To obtain therapeutic levels, athletes need to take supplements.

Until recently, vegetable-derived phospholipids such as lecithin contained only trace amounts of PS. Concentrated PS was available only as a bovine-derived product with potential safety problems such as "mad-cow disease." New technology has made PS commercially available in a concentrated form extracted from soybeans--a far safer source, according to toxicology studies.
Human PS studies have a flawless safety record, one large clinical study going so far as to call the lack of side effects "remarkable."6 The new concentrated form of PS derived from soy phospholipids also has a history of safe use in dietary supplements and foods.

The boldface more than explains why soy-based PS used to be ineffective. Couple that with using a dosage 200mg below the clinically effective dose and one could explain why no results were attained.

All of the info except what I wrote came from

www.youngagain.com/cortisol.html

**Dale Mabry** · 05-22-2004, 01:20 PM

Taken from www.philkaplan.com

There has been some controversy over which is a better source of PS . . . the cow or the soybean (unlikely rivals). I'll explain from whence this controversy emerged. When PS was first isolated for research, it was extracted from bovine (cow) brain tissue. The early research used bovine-sourced PS, and the research, as noted, was impressive. Scientists have since learned to isolate PS in a valuable form from soy, and with the fear of Mad Cow Disease making the news on a daily basis, cow based supplements are far less desirable. Those who earn their livelihoods selling bovine PS are quick to point out that the early research used ONLY bovine PS, and that soy-based PS might not be as valuable. In 1995 a very credible clinical research study, The Effect of Plant Phosphatidylserine on Age-Associated Memory Impairment and Mood in the Functioning Elderly conducted at the Geriatric Institute for Education and Research, and Department of Geriatrics, Kaplan Hospital in Israel, showed results to be just as significant with soy based PS than with bovine. This result has been replicated in continued research over the years between 1995 and 2003. The great majority of PS sold commercially today is soy-based.

LAM · 05-22-2004, 01:30 PM

so are they any recent medical studies on soy-based PS done with athletes ?

Vieope · 05-22-2004, 01:35 PM

The problem here is that the soy based product of PS in the study posted by LAM, 300 mg a day didn´t do anything. In your study Dale, it was effective with 400-800 mg a day. Since a bottle with 120 caps of 100mg is about $30 ..

Vieope · 05-22-2004, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LAM
so are they any recent medical studies on soy-based PS done with athletes ?

Another thing to consider.

Vieope · 05-22-2004, 01:46 PM

These drugs, used from abortion, AIDS and psychiatric treatment lowers cortisol levels:
RU-486, DHEA, Ketaconazole, Anticort, Tianeptine, Iopidine.
Who wants to try frist?

LAM · 05-22-2004, 01:49 PM

I need some RU-486 to reduce my cortisol levels...please send me 1,000 tabs for my "study" (yeah, that's the ticket)...lol

Vieope · 05-22-2004, 01:57 PM

Vieope · 05-22-2004, 01:57 PM

Quote:

PARIS, June 21, 1996 - Researchers from Europe and the US gathered here today to launch the International Association of Researchers in Cortisol and Anti-Cortisols (IARCA) and present new findings showing the negative causal effect of cortisol in diseases for which current treatments still remain unsatisfactory. The founding of the new association constitutes the group's first initiative and marks the beginning of IARCA's contribution to improving the understanding of the mechanisms of cortisol and its effect on human behavior and health.
Cortisol -- a powerful hormone produced by the adrenal gland -- is found at a higher than normal level in many diseases and conditions such as depression, alcoholism, substance abuse, anorexia nervosa, heavy smoking, cancer, ulcers, myocardial infarction, diabetes, chronic painful conditions (organic, i.e. arthritis and psychological), strokes/cardiovascular accidents, Parkinson's, Multiple Sclerosis, skin diseases (psoriasis, acne, eczema), stress, aging/Alzheimer's, AIDS and even Space Adaptation Syndrome.
During the meeting, international researchers presented evidence in support of high cortisol as a cause or major cause of such diseases. "There has been a dramatic change in our understanding of how cortisol affects the human body, and how 'high cortisol' precedes diseases rather than being the result thereof. For example, the side effects induced by cortisol when used in the treatment of certain diseases are identical to symptoms and opportunistic infections encountered in AIDS," said Dr. Alfred Sapse (Director of Research, Steroidogenesis Inhibitors, Las Vegas USA). "This new concept opens the possibility to view anti- cortisol drugs as a new and beneficial therapy for diseases which are still poorly understood and thus inadequately treated."
Results presented during the meeting by French researchers confirm this new approach to cortisol. In five retrospective and prospective studies(1) (2)conducted by Prof. Emmanuel A. Nunez and Dr. Nevena Christeff (Dept. of Endocrine Biochemistry, Bichat Hospital, Paris), results indicated that serum cortisol is elevated at all stages of HIV-infection (+20 to 60%) particularly in AIDS patients (stage IVC as defined by the Center for Disease Control criteria). "These significant cortisol differences from HIV-negative and AIDS patients could represent not only a good index of diagnosis and prognosis, but also indicate new therapeutic approaches to the disease," said Professor Emmanuel Nunez.
In contrast, serum DHEA (dehydroepiandrosterone) is higher during the early stages of the disease (asymptomatic, stages II and III) than during advanced stages (IVC) or control groups, and below the normal level during advanced stages of AIDS (IVC). The results presented showing elevated cortisol during all stages of HIV-infection and high serum DHEA only during the early asymptomatic stages, suggest that the cortisol/DHEA ratio might be used as a possible early sign of HIV-positive switch towards AIDS.
Researchers have already started to explore the therapeutic benefits of such an approach through the use of anti-cortisol drugs, such as RU-486, DHEA, Ketaconazole, Anticort and Tianeptine. In 'in vitro' studies conducted recently (Weiner, 1995), results obtained showed that by blocking cortisol, not only the infectivity of HIV was blunted, but also the production of HIV by the already infected cells which dropped by 70%. Anticort, a high dose form of stabilized procaine HCL, is being successfully tested in pilot clinical studies in Brazil and the U.S., in HIV+ and AIDS populations.

Since, this news is from eight years ago, I think we must have a lot of new drugs by now.

**Dale Mabry** · 05-22-2004, 02:02 PM

Ketoconazole is an anti-androgen too.

V-400mg is the standard dose for cognitive improvements, 800-1000mg is the standard dose for cortisol suppression.

LAM, I know I saw one somewhere, I will try to dig it up later. I think 800mg led to 20% cortisol suppression so it wasn't as big as the bovine derived, but still pretty good. It also used only like 10 subjects which sucks. If I can't find it I can post it Monday from work where I have Medline access. You would figure the gov't would be pumping money into finding non-prescription drugs that work, but i guess that would cut some of the fundraising they get from pharm companies.

Vieope · 05-22-2004, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dale Mabry
Ketoconazole is an anti-androgen too.

That is not good.

Quote:

V-400mg is the standard dose for cognitive improvements, 800-1000mg is the standard dose for cortisol suppression.

With 1000mg of PS, I will have outstanding cognitive powers, I will learn then a cheapest way to reduce cortisol. It makes sense.

LAM · 05-22-2004, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dale Mabry
Ketoconazole is an anti-androgen too.

I thought that Ketoconazole only worked on one of the androgen receptors ?

05-21-2004, 07:26 PM	#2
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 13,883 Photos: 10	Ketoconazole is not something you want in your body, there are a bunch of systemic side effects that you can get which is why it is not used for anything anymore with the exception of dandruff shampoo.
	If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

05-21-2004, 07:37 PM	#3
Vieope Monochromatic Bunny Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: drinking coffee.. Posts: 14,863 Photos: 10	I just looked more information about it. It seems that it is still used as a cream to threat severe problems in the skin. There are a lot of drugs to reduce cortisol, do you know a good one?
	FURtherness

05-21-2004, 07:48 PM	#4
LAM Gym ratt/Part-time pimp Join Date: May 2002 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 7,384 Photos: 2	I know for fact that there are no GOOD OTC supplements to reduce cortisol. just about the only thing that is safe is taking 1000 mg of Vitamin C 3x a day. there have been studies in both human and rat trials that been proven that Vitamin C reduces cortisol levels..
	Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov TBD ----------------------------------------------------- What you talking about Willis ?

05-21-2004, 08:16 PM	#5
Vieope Monochromatic Bunny Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: drinking coffee.. Posts: 14,863 Photos: 10	I didn´t know about Vitamin C and cortisol levels, that is interesting. Let´s not talk about OTC supplements anymore.
	FURtherness

05-21-2004, 08:22 PM	#6
LAM Gym ratt/Part-time pimp Join Date: May 2002 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 7,384 Photos: 2	I don't know of any presciption meds that lower cortisol. if there WAS bb'ers would have been ALL over them and we would have heard about it by now...
	Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov TBD ----------------------------------------------------- What you talking about Willis ?

05-21-2004, 08:33 PM	#7
Monolith OMGWTFBBQ Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 4,002	phosphatidyl serine 7keto
	http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ek867/dexamyl.jpg

05-21-2004, 08:45 PM	#9
Monolith OMGWTFBBQ Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 4,002	V, you might find this interesting: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t_uids=9264159
	http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ek867/dexamyl.jpg

05-21-2004, 08:48 PM	#10
Vieope Monochromatic Bunny Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: drinking coffee.. Posts: 14,863 Photos: 10	Exactly, I was just reading this.
	FURtherness

05-22-2004, 12:17 AM	#11
tomas101 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 602	RELACORE is supposed to reduce cortisol
tomas101 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 602

05-22-2004, 10:04 AM	#12
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 13,883 Photos: 10	Phosphatidylseine is the only supplement that has any clinical research supporting it. I have used it before when cutting and it eliminated the ammonia smell of my sweat that I get whil dieting severely. I guess that is a product of muscle breakdown. Here is a link to the PS research, you have to take a buttload of it to get an effect. Bulknutrition has the best deal on it last time I checked. http://www.supplementwatch.com/supat...pplementId=215 As for 7 keto, there is no research supporting it and i have no idea if it actually suppresses cortisol, but I have used Absolved which has it and it worked out very well for me.
	If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

05-22-2004, 10:56 AM	#13
LAM Gym ratt/Part-time pimp Join Date: May 2002 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 7,384 Photos: 2	Here's some more info that I found on another site. the author engineers nutritional supplements... "I will comment on the most common or “currently popular” cortisol blocker being marketed - Phosphatidylserine (PS) is a member of a special category of fat-soluble substances called phospholipids, which are essential components of cell membranes. PS is found in high concentrations in the brain. According to double-blind studies, PS may help preserve, or even improve, some aspects of mental functioning in the elderly when taken in the amount of 300 mg per day for three to six months. PS is only found in small trace amounts in a typical diet. PS is not an essential nutrient, and therefore dietary deficiencies do not occur. Most research has been conducted with PS derived from bovine (cow) brain tissue. Due to concerns about the transfer “mad cow” to humans - bovine PS is not available in the United States. However is should also be noted that the soy- and bovine-derived PS are not structurally identical. Doctors and researchers have debated whether the structural differences could be important - but so far only a few trials have studied the effects of soy-based PS. Preliminary animal research shows that the soy-derived PS does have effects on brain function similar to effects from the bovine source. An isolated unpublished double-blind human study used soy-derived PS in an evaluation of memory and mood benefits in non-demented, non-depressed elderly people with impaired memories and accompanying depression. In this three-month study, 300 mg per day of PS was not significantly more effective than a placebo. Clinical trials have all been related to brain and memory function and not to use as a cortisol blocker – additionally the soy based version of PS – which is all that is available in the US has shown little to no effectiveness. There are varied products currently on the market that all contain either straight PS or combinations of PS with glutamine peptides. None of these combinations in my opinion are worthy of the price. One study that could “loosely” and I mean loosely be applied to PS use in cortisol management was as published study titled: Effects of phosphatidylserine on the neuroendocrine response to physical stress in humans. Conducted by Monteleone P, Beinat L, Tanzillo C, Maj M, Kemali D. at the Institute of Medical Psychology and Psychiatry, First Medical School, University of Naples, Italy. The abstract of the study stated that the activity of brain cortex-derived phosphatidylserine (BC-PS) on the neuroendocrine and neurovegetative responses to physical stress was tested in 8 healthy men who underwent three experiments with a bicycle ergometer. According to a double-blind design, before starting the exercise, each subject received intravenously, within 10 min, 50 or 75 mg of BC-PS or a volume-matched placebo diluted in 100 ml of saline. Blood samples were collected before and after the exercise for plasma epinephrine (E), norepinephrine (NE), dopamine (DA), adrenocorticotropin (ACTH), cortisol, growth hormone (GH), prolactin (PRL) and glucose determinations. Blood pressure and heart rate were also recorded. Physical stress induced a clear-cut increase in plasma E, NE, ACTH, cortisol, GH and PRL, whereas no significant change was observed in plasma DA and glucose. Pretreatment with both 50 and 75 mg BC-PS significantly blunted the ACTH and cortisol responses to physical stress. Now this study shows indication that PS – derived from brain stem (which is NOT available) did show positive “blunting” of cortisol activity when the dose was administered intravenously – meaning injected straight into the blood stream – not being subjected to passing through the digestive tract…..hence my “loosely”. Taking a soy derived (not brain stem derived) supplement orally is NOT the same as how and what was used in the study. The soy based PS has been studied very little – and only in regards to memory and Alzhiemer’s treatment."
	Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov TBD ----------------------------------------------------- What you talking about Willis ?

05-22-2004, 01:00 PM	#14
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 13,883 Photos: 10	The researchers then conducted an additional experiment on nine men using an oral daily dose of 400 or 800 mg of PS or a placebo for 10 days prior to exercise. The research team found that, compared to placebo, the plasma cortisol response to exercise was about 16 percent lower for the 400 mg dose of PS and 30 percent lower for the 800 mg dose. These findings show that, in healthy people, PS can lessen the severity of the stress response to exercise.2 Thomas Fahey, Ed.D., of California State University, Chico, conducted the third and most recent trial. In this double-blind, crossover study, 11 weight-trained college students were given 800 mg of oral PS or a placebo daily for two weeks. During this time, they participated in a vigorous, whole-body weight workout four times per week--a regimen intentionally designed to overtrain them. After a three-week washout period, the athletes switched treatments and repeated the workout program for another two weeks. During both legs of the experiment, researchers took blood samples from the athletes 15 minutes after the eighth workout. After this last workout, cortisol levels were 20 percent lower in the subjects taking PS. Also, while taking PS, subjects did not show the 20 percent drop in testosterone levels that occurred when they took the placebo. Exit interviews showed that the subjects taking PS felt better, had less muscle soreness, and their perceived exertion dropped. Blood samples taken 24 hours after the workouts also showed that overtraining did not affect long-term elevation of cortisol levels in either group. This suggests that individuals may reach homeostasis during the 24 hours after hard training and that intense training does not cause an extended increase in cortisol levels.3 Fahey's research also indicates that 800 mg of PS may effectively suppress cortisol and diminish muscle soreness. PS-induced cortisol reductions as reported in these studies could potentially improve muscle building and hasten an athlete's recovery after a hard workout. Cortisol can halt protein synthesis, so by dampening an exercise-induced cortisol burst, PS may also increase an athlete's post-workout uptake of amino acids.4 This, in turn, may improve the effectiveness of carbohydrate and protein powder drinks. Outside of this effect, PS also can enhance the effectiveness of high-calorie drinks by promoting homeostasis within the body's cells. PS supports the proteins that manage cell membrane functions--nutrient entry, waste exit, ion movement and cell-to-cell communications--by literally anchoring them in the cell membrane matrix so they function optimally.5 The body can make PS, but only through a complex series of reactions that use a lot of energy. For this reason, PS is sometimes referred to as a "semiessential" nutrient--one the body cannot make in sufficient amounts in times of stress. Trace amounts occur in soy products and muscle meats, but according to rough estimates, average PS dietary intake barely amounts to more than 80 mg per day. Clinical doses range from 200 to 800 mg per day. To obtain therapeutic levels, athletes need to take supplements. Until recently, vegetable-derived phospholipids such as lecithin contained only trace amounts of PS. Concentrated PS was available only as a bovine-derived product with potential safety problems such as "mad-cow disease." New technology has made PS commercially available in a concentrated form extracted from soybeans--a far safer source, according to toxicology studies. Human PS studies have a flawless safety record, one large clinical study going so far as to call the lack of side effects "remarkable."6 The new concentrated form of PS derived from soy phospholipids also has a history of safe use in dietary supplements and foods. The boldface more than explains why soy-based PS used to be ineffective. Couple that with using a dosage 200mg below the clinically effective dose and one could explain why no results were attained. All of the info except what I wrote came from www.youngagain.com/cortisol.html
	If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

05-22-2004, 01:20 PM	#15
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 13,883 Photos: 10	Taken from www.philkaplan.com There has been some controversy over which is a better source of PS . . . the cow or the soybean (unlikely rivals). I'll explain from whence this controversy emerged. When PS was first isolated for research, it was extracted from bovine (cow) brain tissue. The early research used bovine-sourced PS, and the research, as noted, was impressive. Scientists have since learned to isolate PS in a valuable form from soy, and with the fear of Mad Cow Disease making the news on a daily basis, cow based supplements are far less desirable. Those who earn their livelihoods selling bovine PS are quick to point out that the early research used ONLY bovine PS, and that soy-based PS might not be as valuable. In 1995 a very credible clinical research study, The Effect of Plant Phosphatidylserine on Age-Associated Memory Impairment and Mood in the Functioning Elderly conducted at the Geriatric Institute for Education and Research, and Department of Geriatrics, Kaplan Hospital in Israel, showed results to be just as significant with soy based PS than with bovine. This result has been replicated in continued research over the years between 1995 and 2003. The great majority of PS sold commercially today is soy-based.
	If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

05-22-2004, 01:30 PM	#16
LAM Gym ratt/Part-time pimp Join Date: May 2002 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 7,384 Photos: 2	so are they any recent medical studies on soy-based PS done with athletes ?
	Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov TBD ----------------------------------------------------- What you talking about Willis ?

05-22-2004, 01:35 PM	#17
Vieope Monochromatic Bunny Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: drinking coffee.. Posts: 14,863 Photos: 10	The problem here is that the soy based product of PS in the study posted by LAM, 300 mg a day didn´t do anything. In your study Dale, it was effective with 400-800 mg a day. Since a bottle with 120 caps of 100mg is about $30 ..
	FURtherness

05-22-2004, 01:46 PM	#19
Vieope Monochromatic Bunny Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: drinking coffee.. Posts: 14,863 Photos: 10	These drugs, used from abortion, AIDS and psychiatric treatment lowers cortisol levels: RU-486, DHEA, Ketaconazole, Anticort, Tianeptine, Iopidine. Who wants to try frist?
	FURtherness

05-22-2004, 01:49 PM	#20
LAM Gym ratt/Part-time pimp Join Date: May 2002 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 7,384 Photos: 2	I need some RU-486 to reduce my cortisol levels...please send me 1,000 tabs for my "study" (yeah, that's the ticket)...lol
	Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov TBD ----------------------------------------------------- What you talking about Willis ?

05-22-2004, 01:57 PM	#21
Vieope Monochromatic Bunny Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: drinking coffee.. Posts: 14,863 Photos: 10
	FURtherness

05-22-2004, 02:02 PM	#23
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 13,883 Photos: 10	Ketoconazole is an anti-androgen too. V-400mg is the standard dose for cognitive improvements, 800-1000mg is the standard dose for cortisol suppression. LAM, I know I saw one somewhere, I will try to dig it up later. I think 800mg led to 20% cortisol suppression so it wasn't as big as the bovine derived, but still pretty good. It also used only like 10 subjects which sucks. If I can't find it I can post it Monday from work where I have Medline access. You would figure the gov't would be pumping money into finding non-prescription drugs that work, but i guess that would cut some of the fundraising they get from pharm companies.
	If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...