liver protectant= less effective ph???????

topolo · 06-16-2004, 06:15 PM

This is from the designersupps web site..........any comments?

I have heard both sides to this.

A Word About Liver Protectants

A lot of people have been using liver protectant supplements such as Silymarin and NAC to help protect their liver from damage when using methylated compounds. However, I feel that this is a bad idea. When you use compounds that increase gluthione levels in the liver, it will increase the breakdown of oral drugs, making them less effective. Although increasing liver enzymes is good for your liver, it is bad for any drugs you want to take and allow them to pass through your liver unabated. A better idea would be to use liver protectant supplements before and after a cycle to help your liver rebuild its enzymes after they have been damaged by methylated compounds.

I have no idea if using liver protectants on a cycle will inhibit gains in any significant degree, but it could. Keep that in mind when planning your cycle.

**dg806** · 06-17-2004, 09:44 AM

I agree with this! If you are paranoid about damaging your liver, you should stay away from methyls.

topolo · 06-17-2004, 11:53 AM

That really wasn't the point DG....The question is does using protectants make them less effective..........and he thinks it might. Do you?

**Prince** · 06-17-2004, 11:55 AM

have heard this before, and that is why I only use Milk Thistle post cycle.

**dg806** · 06-17-2004, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topolo

That really wasn't the point DG....The question is does using protectants make them less effective..........and he thinks it might. Do you?

I said I agreed with what he said.................

**dg806** · 06-17-2004, 01:45 PM

I also feel this way about estrogen suppresssors like Nolva, armidex....................I feel these interfere with gains and I would not take one unless I was seeing signs of gyno or if the bloat was so bad I couldn't stand it. Not knocking anyone like Mudge who uses them. It's a personal preference.

**Prince** · 06-17-2004, 01:51 PM

although the M1D I just got from bb.com has Milk Thistle in it.

not much though, only 1,000mcg

KataMaStEr · 06-17-2004, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg806

I also feel this way about estrogen suppresssors like Nolva, armidex....................I feel these interfere with gains and I would not take one unless I was seeing signs of gyno or if the bloat was so bad I couldn't stand it. Not knocking anyone like Mudge who uses them. It's a personal preference.

I’m sorry but I don’t think I understand what you mean here. Are you saying you don’t follow PCT or do you mean not taking say nolvadex during the cycle?

**dg806** · 06-17-2004, 02:18 PM

Yes during a cycle unless it is needed.

topolo · 06-17-2004, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio

although the M1D I just got from bb.com has Milk Thistle in it.

not much though, only 1,000mcg

Rob, can you post a link to this product please

**Prince** · 06-17-2004, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topolo

Rob, can you post a link to this product please

anything for you!

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/hp/m1d.htm

**Prince** · 06-17-2004, 02:35 PM

think I got that backwards too, it's 110mg of Milk Thistle & Licorice Root.

1000mcg of M1D

KataMaStEr · 06-17-2004, 02:55 PM

You know I would rather it be the drug that is less effective than my liver in the long run. Plus this is going to be my 2nd week for me on M1T, the first week I was up 4lbs at only 5mg daily and also taking 800mg of Milk Thistle daily. I’m have continued 5mg also thru the second week cuz that seems to be working fine for me, will weight myself again Saturday. So I don’t know how much truth there is to this. If there are any draw backs they must be very minimal if any.

KataMaStEr · 06-17-2004, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg806

Yes during a cycle unless it is needed.

Ahh alright I didn’t know some people actually use it during the cycle unless bad sides start to appear.

topolo · 06-17-2004, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio

anything for you!

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/hp/m1d.htm

you are so kind!

rrgg · 06-17-2004, 04:16 PM

>have heard this before, and that is why I only use
>Milk Thistle post cycle.

I'm confused. If you've heard this before and agree with it, why are you taking milk thistle? Or why "only" milk thistle? Are you saying this repairs the liver without interfering with the effectiveness of the cycle?

ClintZ28 · 06-17-2004, 04:33 PM

Prince, sorry if you have already been asked this question, but how well has the M1D worked for you for cutting? How well have you heard that it works for others? I'm thinking about doing a 5wk cycle of M1D, but I really don't want to do it if I have to take off for a lengthy post-cycle therapy, or lose a lot of my natural test like with M1T. 20mg/day of M1T completely killed my test levels after 2wks.

**dg806** · 06-18-2004, 08:11 AM

A quote from big cat posted 5-5-04 on a thread about dbol/anadrol.............

The opposite is true for anti-estrogen fanatics. You are probably not just paying more for something you quite likely don't even need, you are shooting yourself in the foot and actually paying more for less gains. Anti-e's should only be used in people particularly prone to estrogenic sides (an absolute minority, most can tolerate 750 mg of test a week without signs of gyno) and when you do, opt for a SERM rather than an anti-aromatase.

plouffe · 06-18-2004, 10:33 PM

The methyl D with the extra herbs is just doing you a favor, the extra protection is worth the extremly minor loss in gains.

thickone · 06-19-2004, 04:52 PM

After my research I say lots of B12,E ,and,C.That heps keep lthe liver strong and healthy.

topolo · 06-19-2004, 07:07 PM

So then it sounds like we all agree that liver protectants may lessen the effects of phs!

**Pirate!** · 07-22-2004, 07:17 PM

Sorry to dig up an old post, but I am mid cycle (M1T & 4-AD) and have been taking proliver daily. Should I hold off on the proliver until PCT? Does it take a jacked-up liver to optimize absorbsion of ph/ps?

redspy · 07-22-2004, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PirateFromHell

Sorry to dig up an old post, but I am mid cycle (M1T & 4-AD) and have been taking proliver daily. Should I hold off on the proliver until PCT? Does it take a jacked-up liver to optimize absorbsion of ph/ps?

The bulk of the materials I've read suggest it inhibits the absorbion of PS/PHs. Regarding milk thistle I've seen studies which show it helps bring back alcohol abused livers to good health, but I've never seen studies which show it actively protects the liver while drinking.

In your position I'd wait until postcycle. Taking M1T your liver will be stressed no matter how much milk thistle you take.

Luke9583 · 07-22-2004, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio

although the M1D I just got from bb.com has Milk Thistle in it.

not much though, only 1,000mcg

Is that the Higher Power M1D.... ? Because my HP has milk Thistle as well.

**Pirate!** · 07-23-2004, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke9583

Is that the Higher Power M1D.... ? Because my HP has milk Thistle as well.

Yes, Luke. That is the one they were refering to. I guess I'll take the remainder of my proliver off cycle--if I don't shit my liver out first!

06-17-2004, 09:44 AM	#2
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 17,118	I agree with this! If you are paranoid about damaging your liver, you should stay away from methyls.
	www.sbmuscle.com

06-17-2004, 11:55 AM	#4
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,510 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 313	have heard this before, and that is why I only use Milk Thistle post cycle.
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips!

06-17-2004, 01:45 PM	#6
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 17,118	I also feel this way about estrogen suppresssors like Nolva, armidex....................I feel these interfere with gains and I would not take one unless I was seeing signs of gyno or if the bloat was so bad I couldn't stand it. Not knocking anyone like Mudge who uses them. It's a personal preference.
	www.sbmuscle.com

06-17-2004, 01:51 PM	#7
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,510 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 313	although the M1D I just got from bb.com has Milk Thistle in it. not much though, only 1,000mcg
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips!

06-17-2004, 02:18 PM	#9
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 17,118	Yes during a cycle unless it is needed.
	www.sbmuscle.com

06-17-2004, 02:35 PM	#12
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,510 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 313	think I got that backwards too, it's 110mg of Milk Thistle & Licorice Root. 1000mcg of M1D
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips!

06-17-2004, 02:55 PM	#13
KataMaStEr -==♠==- Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Sunshine State Posts: 1,959 Photos: 7	You know I would rather it be the drug that is less effective than my liver in the long run. Plus this is going to be my 2nd week for me on M1T, the first week I was up 4lbs at only 5mg daily and also taking 800mg of Milk Thistle daily. I’m have continued 5mg also thru the second week cuz that seems to be working fine for me, will weight myself again Saturday. So I don’t know how much truth there is to this. If there are any draw backs they must be very minimal if any.

06-17-2004, 04:16 PM	#16
rrgg Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 261	>have heard this before, and that is why I only use >Milk Thistle post cycle. I'm confused. If you've heard this before and agree with it, why are you taking milk thistle? Or why "only" milk thistle? Are you saying this repairs the liver without interfering with the effectiveness of the cycle?
rrgg Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 261

06-17-2004, 04:33 PM	#17
ClintZ28 Cutting Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, Tx Posts: 117 Photos: 7	Prince, sorry if you have already been asked this question, but how well has the M1D worked for you for cutting? How well have you heard that it works for others? I'm thinking about doing a 5wk cycle of M1D, but I really don't want to do it if I have to take off for a lengthy post-cycle therapy, or lose a lot of my natural test like with M1T. 20mg/day of M1T completely killed my test levels after 2wks.

06-18-2004, 08:11 AM	#18
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 17,118	A quote from big cat posted 5-5-04 on a thread about dbol/anadrol............. The opposite is true for anti-estrogen fanatics. You are probably not just paying more for something you quite likely don't even need, you are shooting yourself in the foot and actually paying more for less gains. Anti-e's should only be used in people particularly prone to estrogenic sides (an absolute minority, most can tolerate 750 mg of test a week without signs of gyno) and when you do, opt for a SERM rather than an anti-aromatase.
	www.sbmuscle.com

06-18-2004, 10:33 PM	#19
plouffe is bulking Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,786 Photos: 6	The methyl D with the extra herbs is just doing you a favor, the extra protection is worth the extremly minor loss in gains.
	These are my favorite faces : - - - Personal Bests: Bench - 235 Deadlift - 315 X 17 Squat - 315 X 11 40 yrd. - 4.65

06-19-2004, 04:52 PM	#20
thickone Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46	After my research I say lots of B12,E ,and,C.That heps keep lthe liver strong and healthy.
thickone Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46

07-22-2004, 07:17 PM	#22
Pirate! Gatekepper Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 5,696	Sorry to dig up an old post, but I am mid cycle (M1T & 4-AD) and have been taking proliver daily. Should I hold off on the proliver until PCT? Does it take a jacked-up liver to optimize absorbsion of ph/ps?

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