NJ-Surfer

Okay, I have read all of the stickies on PH use and from what I gather S1+ would be a good start for me. I am 36 yrs, 6'2", 185 lbs and ~17% body fat. I have been working out religiously for ~2yrs. I have a good diet and use creatine 1 month on 1 month off cycles. My plan is to use S1+ for 4 week cycle with 6-OXO 4 weeks post cycle. I will continue this (assuming good results) for 4-6 months and then off PH's for good. I am not looking to ever compete I just want to put on some mass and keep it that way for as long as I can. Does this sound reasonable? Can I use PH's for 4 week cycles for 6 months and then stop with one last 6-oxo post cycle?
An alternative from what I understand from the stickies is I could do 2 week cycles with 2 weeks off and no anti-estrogen. Could this also be run for six months and then quit PH's for good?? What is the best method to minimize side effects while still gaining descent mass??
Thanks in advance for any help!!

Ginobili

I would not do the 2 weeks cycle with s1+ b/c with the transdermals you really start seeing the results in weeks 3 and 4.

Don't hate the player hate the game!!
Go Spurs Go!!

Pirate!

Go for 4 week cycles followed by 4 weeks PCT. Tamoxifen Citrate (Nolvadex) is better than 6-oxo. You may want to increase the dosage with every cycle. Listen to your body.

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NJ-Surfer

Thanks for the info!! I will give the 4 week cycle with PCT for 4 weeks. Should I then do 4 weeks after the PCT of no PH before starting a new cycle? Also, what do you think about doing this for 3 - 6 months and then getting off the PH's for good. Will I eventually lose all my gains?
Thanks again for your input!!

PreMier

Best is time on=time off. And PCT is considered "on" time. So 8 weeks is what I would do, but it is ultimately up to you. If you keep eating/training right, and do proper PCT you shouldnt loose any gains.

P-side Inc.

"the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.

Pirate!

So, are you saying that a four week cycle of ph and/or ps followed by a 4 week PCT should then be followed by 8 weeks off before another cycle? So the begining of the second cycle is 16 weeks after the begining of the first? Sounds very conservative to me when dealing with ph/ps. Anyone else, fell free to chime in...

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Pirate!

Huge Mistake! Don't cycle that stuff that long. I wouldn't go beyond 6 weeks at a time.

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redspy

I agree completely. After a cycle that long your nuts would be the size of an atom Not to mention all the other complications.....

MTN WARRIOR

So, let me get thsi straight. You include PCT in your on cycle time. So if I do 4 weeks of M1T (with 4AD), then 2 weeks of PCT, I should be off of all of it for 6 weeks. I am only doing 2 weeks of PCT because I did 4AD trans and in theory that counters the side of test production going down.

THAT WHICH DOES NOT KILL ME, CERTAINLY MUST MAKE ME STRONGER

Pirate!

Wrong. You should do a 4 week pct if you want to keep your gains. Your natural test production completely shuts down. 4-AD converts to test, but this does not stop your balls from going on vacation. After 4 weeks of M1t--even with 4 AD--you would be lucky to have full test production after 4 weeks of serious pct. This is the first time I have heard anyone say that your pct counts as on time, and that you must therefor take off that much time between ph/ps cycles.

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PreMier

Conservative maybe a bit.. but its the RIGHT way to do it. This is what PowerRabbit recommends also.

P-side Inc.

"the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.

redspy

I agree with PreMier on this. After PCT your test levels may have climbed to within your normal range but what about your lipid profile, BP, or liver values etc? Personally I think 4 PH cycles per year is about right. This isn't based on science, just caution.

Pirate!

I agree that it is safer to wait longer. Even safer than this, is to not put external hormones in your body. I also think that it is important to check lipid, liver, BP and other values before and after cycles. But, if everything checks out fine (all values are healthy) and you have done more time off the PS/PH than on, I say go for it. It all comes with some level of risk. Just like driving: If you drive less often, you have that much less of a chance of getting in a wreck. I drive a lot and love it.

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PreMier

See the thing is, how many people go and get blood work? Hardly any, thats why its just better to recommend "by the book". Now if you are one that gets blood work done, then you wouldnt be asking a question like this in the first place.

P-side Inc.

"the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.

Pirate!

Good point. It cost $$ but I get it done anyway. Health comes first.

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g4ud1n

I had to stop my S1+ cycle after the 3rd week cause I got a rash, but during that time i did manage to gain 10 pounds. Not sure how much of it I will keep.

rrgg

g4ud1n -- Did you get a rash at the application site? Or somewhere else? I'm also wondering if you switched to some PCT, if anything after aborting the s1+. thx

g4ud1n

rash on application site, ya im doing 600mg at night of 6-oxo currently

Pirate!

Good call. Some people figure if they don't do a whole cycle, then there is no use for PCT

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g4ud1n

is there anything i can do about it? cause its still there :/