All my M1T research in one post

Purdue Power · 09-02-2004, 01:45 AM

I have done daily research for over a month for everything about doing an M1T cycle, and I wanted to save people the time and make sure that they are well informed about all that an M1T cycle entails.
Here is what I have learned thus far:
DO NOT START ANYTHING UNTIL YOU HAVE NOLVDEX ON HAND FOR YOUR PCT-->if gyno starts to set in, you are FUCKED if you don't have it on hand for immediate use.

Start you 4Derm by Dermabolics 1 week before starting your M1T to get your test levels up before you start your M1T- 4 sprays twice a day 12 hours apart

Start taking Alpha Lipoic Acid for liver protection a few days before you start you M1T and continue all through the cycle and through your pct.

Start you M1T @ 5-10mg a day, taking the entire dose post workout and continue the dosage of 4Derm through the cycle.
Listen to your body, if the side effects are mild or not there at all, up your dose by 5mg/day. If the sides are bad, lower your dose and/or increase your dose of 4Derm. Take the M1T for NO MORE THAN 3 weeks, less if the sides get too unbearable. Eat insane amounts; you can't build muscle without something to build it with.

Take at least 1000mcg of B12 a day to keep you appetite up.
Take shit loads of Vit C and Echinacea to keep your immune system up.

Continue the 4Derm for 2 weeks after you stop the M1T along with your VitC and Echinacea and Alpha Lipoic Acid. Keep you calories up.

Start your pct of Nolvadex the last day of your 4Derm. For the first 2 days, take 60mg/day. For the next 2 weeks, 40mg/day. Last 2 weeks, 20mg/day. Keep you calories up, or you will lose the strength and size that you just gained. You can do 2 weeks of Clenbuterol to burn off much of the fat that you put on and rid some of the water retention.

If anyone has anything that they think should be added or changed, please let me know.

**Pirate!** · 09-02-2004, 08:01 AM

I don't understand why you would do 60 mg of nolva for the first two days. First 2 weeks sounds better to me (especially if using liquid). The clen during PCT is to keep from gaing fat with your calories high. Fat loss should not be a goal during PCT. JMO

MTN WARRIOR · 09-02-2004, 08:15 AM

See nothing wrong with going 4 weeks on M1T. Shouldnt need liver protectant until you start M1t. Think you should start your PCT as soon as you stop M1T. IMHO

**Pirate!** · 09-02-2004, 08:17 AM

I agree. Didn't catch that stuff. I would suggest 3 weeks for newbies though.

Purdue Power · 09-02-2004, 09:08 AM

so start the Nolva as soon as the M1T is done and continue the 4Derm for 2 more weeks?

**Pirate!** · 09-02-2004, 10:05 AM

Some people stop both at the same time. I pefere to continue the 4-Derm as my body recovers from the M1T, as do others. It is a matter of preference. 4-AD is best run for 6 weeks, IMO.

gococksDJS · 09-02-2004, 10:05 AM

Not meaning to get off the subject but Pirate, i saw an earlier post under a different thread that you added 3 g's of 4-AD powder to a bottle of 4 derm. I am about to do this and i know to put the 4 derm in hot water but was just wondering exactly how you went about doing this? I'm gonna add 4 grams to my 4 derm before i start an M1T cycle.

Purdue Power · 09-02-2004, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTN WARRIOR

See nothing wrong with going 4 weeks on M1T. Shouldnt need liver protectant until you start M1t. Think you should start your PCT as soon as you stop M1T. IMHO

Quote:

Originally Posted by PirateFromHell

Some people stop both at the same time. I pefere to continue the 4-Derm as my body recovers from the M1T, as do others. It is a matter of preference. 4-AD is best run for 6 weeks, IMO.

So do I start my pct once I stop the M1T or once I stop the 4Derm?

redspy · 09-02-2004, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdue Power

So do I start my pct once I stop the M1T or once I stop the 4Derm?

You start PCT the day after you stop taking PH/PS's, in this case after you finish the 4-AD.

MTN WARRIOR · 09-02-2004, 11:44 AM

So we have a contradiction of opinions which may be confusing people here. NP. Start PCT after conclusion of PH/PS. IMO, stop taking 4AD when you stop taking M1T. IT is there to counter the sides of MIT. The PCT is there to jumpstart the test production after the shutdown caused by excessive amounts put in by the use of M1T, not by the use of 4AD. 4AD does not cause the shutdown, it is attempting to counter the effects. So it doesnt make sense to me to continue the use of 4AD and NOT start PCT immediately after stopping the use of M1T.

Purdue Power · 09-02-2004, 11:56 AM

Well, just to make sure both sides are played out and defended, I have been told that continuing the 4AD for the last two weeks makes a better transition to the pct. So I would assume that you would be continuing to keep you test levels up with the 4AD while your nuts started to kick back in, and then after those 2 weeks were up, since the 4AD doesn't cause a shutdown, your nuts will be back in lower gear when you start your pct.

redspy · 09-02-2004, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTN WARRIOR

4AD does not cause the shutdown, it is attempting to counter the effects.

This is not completely correct. It's true M1T will shutdown natural testosterone production very quickly and that the addition of 4-AD will increase Testosterone levels to offset side effects. However, after 4-AD is converted it's still exogenous testosterone and it will shutdown natural test production.

After the cessation of M1T you will still have the potential to make more gains from use of 4-AD. Not massive gains of course, but gains all the same.

MTN WARRIOR · 09-02-2004, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redspy

This is not completely correct. It's true M1T will shutdown natural testosterone production very quickly and that the addition of 4-AD will increase Testosterone levels to offset side effects. However, after 4-AD is converted it's still exogenous testosterone and it will shutdown natural test production.

After the cessation of M1T you will still have the potential to make more gains from use of 4-AD. Not massive gains of course, but gains all the same.

Test production shuts down due to the extraordinary amount of exogenous test produced by M1T use. You stop using M1t and start PCT because you dont want "permanent" shutdown. WHY would you continue to use 4AD without starting PCT. After 4 weeks for example, you are mostly shut down. The minimal amount of exo-test that 4AD will convert will not be sufficient to kick start you. You need PCT. And I don't believe you will make ANY gains being off M1t, shutdown and not on PCT. You have virtually no test running around your body.

redspy · 09-02-2004, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTN WARRIOR

You stop using M1t and start PCT because you dont want "permanent" shutdown.

A 4-6 week cycle isn't going to cause permenent shutdown. A 12 week cycle of potent AAS without HCG is a different story.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTN WARRIOR

WHY would you continue to use 4AD without starting PCT.

The question is why would you start PCT while still ingesting exogenous testosterone? It doesn't make sense. PCT is started after all androgens are stopped to allow the HPTA to return to its normal state.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTN WARRIOR

After 4 weeks for example, you are mostly shut down. The minimal amount of exo-test that 4AD will convert will not be sufficient to kick start you.

After 3-4 days of M1T you'll be shutdown. If you take a high dose of transdermal 4-AD it will elevate Test levels after cessation of M1T IMO. I agree with Pirate's tactic of avoiding a post M1T crash by using 4-AD after.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTN WARRIOR

You need PCT. And I don't believe you will make ANY gains being off M1t, shutdown and not on PCT. You have virtually no test running around your body.

I'm not disputing the need for PCT, we all know it's critical. This issue at hand here is timing. IMO you'll still make small gains and more importantly you'll reduce the post M1T crash . While on 4-AD your lipid profile will improve as will your liver values.

You clearly have your approach and I have mine. The M1T user will make up their own mind.

MTN WARRIOR · 09-02-2004, 02:22 PM

My approach is only based on my interpretation of my research. It may be flawed and I bow to you and Pirates experience. I have done only a few PH/PS cycles. IF I am wrong, then it is through mis-interpretation of my reasearch. I am certainly not arguing with you guys.

Purdue Power · 09-02-2004, 02:59 PM

So is the verdict that one should continue high doses of 4AD for around 2 weeks after cessation of the M1T, and then start on pct?

MTN WARRIOR · 09-02-2004, 03:03 PM

Thats not my opinion, but its a technique.

redspy · 09-02-2004, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTN WARRIOR

My approach is only based on my interpretation of my research. It may be flawed and I bow to you and Pirates experience. I have done only a few PH/PS cycles. IF I am wrong, then it is through mis-interpretation of my reasearch. I am certainly not arguing with you guys.

I don't see this as an argument, you've certainly done your research and combined that with your experience. I've just come to a different conclusion.

**Pirate!** · 09-02-2004, 04:09 PM

As I said, it is a matter of preference. My experience and research causes me to like the cycle I have stated. It wouldn't hurt to run some nolva those last two weeks while you run high levels of 4-AD, but PCT definitely starts when you stop all PH/PS. Others cycle it this way, too: http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=31166 (Dumb question on M1T and 4AD)
Unfortunately, a few months ago I told MTN that I thought the cycle he speaks of made since to me. After doing it, I learned better: http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...light=M1T+4-AD (M1t/4ad)

redspy · 09-02-2004, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdue Power

So is the verdict that one should continue high doses of 4AD for around 2 weeks after cessation of the M1T, and then start on pct?

There's no Unified Theory on PH stacks, so you have to do what feels right for you.

I'm two weeks into a M1,4ADD/4-AD and M5AA (preworkout) stack. I'll post my results when I'm finished in 4 weeks.

Purdue Power · 09-06-2004, 06:31 PM

Has anyone that has done an M1T stack had the opposite of the common side effects? I ask because when i have done my previous 1-Test cycles, I had the opposite effects of the common sides, being that my labido was kicked into high gear, my energy was up, and I was hungry all the time. I just wondered if I would have the same effects with M1T.

Redneck · 09-06-2004, 06:41 PM

I'm 42 and my libido goes through the roof on 20mg M1t / 4ad Derm stack....... I haven't felt like this since i was in my early twenties. This is my second cycle and really haven't had any sides to speak of.

Purdue Power · 09-06-2004, 06:46 PM

What brand of M1T are you using(seems to be potentcy differences btw the brands) and how many sprays of 4Derm are you using?

Redneck · 09-06-2004, 07:09 PM

I use Underground Labs m1t 10mg about 7am with 6 sprays of Dermabolics 4ad Derm and then i repeat that around 3:30pm.

My wife thinks i'm taking viagra!

**Pirate!** · 09-06-2004, 07:30 PM

Yeah, 12 sprays of 4-derm definitely gets the libido going. It was during PCT--after stopping both at the same time--that my libido was shot. I was actually real horny during the first few days of my cycle, even though I started at only 6 sprays a day (3 sprays twice daily).

Purdue Power · 09-06-2004, 07:41 PM

Ya, I think I AM going to go with the 2 weeks of 4Derm after my 3 weeks of M1T. I think I am going to start on low doses of 6OXO for those 2 weeks, since I have some left over, along with some Irwin Naturals Steel Labido that I got for free from work. I will then start on Nolva after those 2 weeks are over. Someone tell me if this sounds good or if it is a fuckup waiting to happen.

topolo · 09-06-2004, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTN WARRIOR

So we have a contradiction of opinions which may be confusing people here. NP. Start PCT after conclusion of PH/PS. IMO, stop taking 4AD when you stop taking M1T. IT is there to counter the sides of MIT. The PCT is there to jumpstart the test production after the shutdown caused by excessive amounts put in by the use of M1T, not by the use of 4AD. 4AD does not cause the shutdown, it is attempting to counter the effects. So it doesnt make sense to me to continue the use of 4AD and NOT start PCT immediately after stopping the use of M1T.

I agree with this

Redneck · 09-06-2004, 08:05 PM

The only problem with that many sprays of 4 derm.......I smell like oranges all day.

Purdue Power · 09-08-2004, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdue Power

Ya, I think I AM going to go with the 2 weeks of 4Derm after my 3 weeks of M1T. I think I am going to start on low doses of 6OXO for those 2 weeks, since I have some left over, along with some Irwin Naturals Steel Labido that I got for free from work. I will then start on Nolva after those 2 weeks are over. Someone tell me if this sounds good or if it is a fuckup waiting to happen.

So does anyone have any comments about this approach?

pop · 09-08-2004, 05:41 AM

can u tell me plz wat 4 derm is, is oxo6 a good test stimulate and Alpha Lipoic Acid can i use this on dianobol does it protect the liver and where can i get it tyvm

09-02-2004, 01:45 AM	#1
Purdue Power Good Enough Never Is Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Purdue University Posts: 1,351 Photos: 5	All my M1T research in one post I have done daily research for over a month for everything about doing an M1T cycle, and I wanted to save people the time and make sure that they are well informed about all that an M1T cycle entails. Here is what I have learned thus far: DO NOT START ANYTHING UNTIL YOU HAVE NOLVDEX ON HAND FOR YOUR PCT-->if gyno starts to set in, you are FUCKED if you don't have it on hand for immediate use. Start you 4Derm by Dermabolics 1 week before starting your M1T to get your test levels up before you start your M1T- 4 sprays twice a day 12 hours apart Start taking Alpha Lipoic Acid for liver protection a few days before you start you M1T and continue all through the cycle and through your pct. Start you M1T @ 5-10mg a day, taking the entire dose post workout and continue the dosage of 4Derm through the cycle. Listen to your body, if the side effects are mild or not there at all, up your dose by 5mg/day. If the sides are bad, lower your dose and/or increase your dose of 4Derm. Take the M1T for NO MORE THAN 3 weeks, less if the sides get too unbearable. Eat insane amounts; you can't build muscle without something to build it with. Take at least 1000mcg of B12 a day to keep you appetite up. Take shit loads of Vit C and Echinacea to keep your immune system up. Continue the 4Derm for 2 weeks after you stop the M1T along with your VitC and Echinacea and Alpha Lipoic Acid. Keep you calories up. Start your pct of Nolvadex the last day of your 4Derm. For the first 2 days, take 60mg/day. For the next 2 weeks, 40mg/day. Last 2 weeks, 20mg/day. Keep you calories up, or you will lose the strength and size that you just gained. You can do 2 weeks of Clenbuterol to burn off much of the fat that you put on and rid some of the water retention. If anyone has anything that they think should be added or changed, please let me know. 5'8 1/2, 225lbs Your M1T Info Source Dream as though you'll live forever, Live each day like it's you last. Love like you've never been hurt. Tomorrow is never promised.

09-02-2004, 08:01 AM	#2
Pirate! Gatekepper Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 6,166	I don't understand why you would do 60 mg of nolva for the first two days. First 2 weeks sounds better to me (especially if using liquid). The clen during PCT is to keep from gaing fat with your calories high. Fat loss should not be a goal during PCT. JMO My 1-Andro RX Journal

09-02-2004, 08:15 AM	#3
MTN WARRIOR HOOAH!!! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: HOOAHVILLE Posts: 604	See nothing wrong with going 4 weeks on M1T. Shouldnt need liver protectant until you start M1t. Think you should start your PCT as soon as you stop M1T. IMHO THAT WHICH DOES NOT KILL ME, CERTAINLY MUST MAKE ME STRONGER

09-02-2004, 08:17 AM	#4
Pirate! Gatekepper Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 6,166	I agree. Didn't catch that stuff. I would suggest 3 weeks for newbies though. My 1-Andro RX Journal

09-02-2004, 09:08 AM	#5
Purdue Power Good Enough Never Is Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Purdue University Posts: 1,351 Photos: 5	so start the Nolva as soon as the M1T is done and continue the 4Derm for 2 more weeks? 5'8 1/2, 225lbs Your M1T Info Source Dream as though you'll live forever, Live each day like it's you last. Love like you've never been hurt. Tomorrow is never promised.

09-02-2004, 10:05 AM	#6
Pirate! Gatekepper Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 6,166	Some people stop both at the same time. I pefere to continue the 4-Derm as my body recovers from the M1T, as do others. It is a matter of preference. 4-AD is best run for 6 weeks, IMO. My 1-Andro RX Journal

09-02-2004, 10:05 AM	#7
gococksDJS RIP Foreman Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 6,000	Not meaning to get off the subject but Pirate, i saw an earlier post under a different thread that you added 3 g's of 4-AD powder to a bottle of 4 derm. I am about to do this and i know to put the 4 derm in hot water but was just wondering exactly how you went about doing this? I'm gonna add 4 grams to my 4 derm before i start an M1T cycle.

09-02-2004, 11:44 AM	#10
MTN WARRIOR HOOAH!!! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: HOOAHVILLE Posts: 604	So we have a contradiction of opinions which may be confusing people here. NP. Start PCT after conclusion of PH/PS. IMO, stop taking 4AD when you stop taking M1T. IT is there to counter the sides of MIT. The PCT is there to jumpstart the test production after the shutdown caused by excessive amounts put in by the use of M1T, not by the use of 4AD. 4AD does not cause the shutdown, it is attempting to counter the effects. So it doesnt make sense to me to continue the use of 4AD and NOT start PCT immediately after stopping the use of M1T. THAT WHICH DOES NOT KILL ME, CERTAINLY MUST MAKE ME STRONGER

09-02-2004, 11:56 AM	#11
Purdue Power Good Enough Never Is Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Purdue University Posts: 1,351 Photos: 5	Well, just to make sure both sides are played out and defended, I have been told that continuing the 4AD for the last two weeks makes a better transition to the pct. So I would assume that you would be continuing to keep you test levels up with the 4AD while your nuts started to kick back in, and then after those 2 weeks were up, since the 4AD doesn't cause a shutdown, your nuts will be back in lower gear when you start your pct. 5'8 1/2, 225lbs Your M1T Info Source Dream as though you'll live forever, Live each day like it's you last. Love like you've never been hurt. Tomorrow is never promised.

09-02-2004, 02:22 PM	#15
MTN WARRIOR HOOAH!!! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: HOOAHVILLE Posts: 604	My approach is only based on my interpretation of my research. It may be flawed and I bow to you and Pirates experience. I have done only a few PH/PS cycles. IF I am wrong, then it is through mis-interpretation of my reasearch. I am certainly not arguing with you guys. THAT WHICH DOES NOT KILL ME, CERTAINLY MUST MAKE ME STRONGER

09-02-2004, 02:59 PM	#16
Purdue Power Good Enough Never Is Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Purdue University Posts: 1,351 Photos: 5	So is the verdict that one should continue high doses of 4AD for around 2 weeks after cessation of the M1T, and then start on pct? 5'8 1/2, 225lbs Your M1T Info Source Dream as though you'll live forever, Live each day like it's you last. Love like you've never been hurt. Tomorrow is never promised.

09-02-2004, 03:03 PM	#17
MTN WARRIOR HOOAH!!! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: HOOAHVILLE Posts: 604	Thats not my opinion, but its a technique. THAT WHICH DOES NOT KILL ME, CERTAINLY MUST MAKE ME STRONGER

09-02-2004, 04:09 PM	#19
Pirate! Gatekepper Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 6,166	As I said, it is a matter of preference. My experience and research causes me to like the cycle I have stated. It wouldn't hurt to run some nolva those last two weeks while you run high levels of 4-AD, but PCT definitely starts when you stop all PH/PS. Others cycle it this way, too: http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=31166 (Dumb question on M1T and 4AD) Unfortunately, a few months ago I told MTN that I thought the cycle he speaks of made since to me. After doing it, I learned better: http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...light=M1T+4-AD (M1t/4ad) My 1-Andro RX Journal

09-06-2004, 06:31 PM	#21
Purdue Power Good Enough Never Is Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Purdue University Posts: 1,351 Photos: 5	Has anyone that has done an M1T stack had the opposite of the common side effects? I ask because when i have done my previous 1-Test cycles, I had the opposite effects of the common sides, being that my labido was kicked into high gear, my energy was up, and I was hungry all the time. I just wondered if I would have the same effects with M1T. 5'8 1/2, 225lbs Your M1T Info Source Dream as though you'll live forever, Live each day like it's you last. Love like you've never been hurt. Tomorrow is never promised.

09-06-2004, 06:41 PM	#22
Redneck Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 14	Purdue I'm 42 and my libido goes through the roof on 20mg M1t / 4ad Derm stack....... I haven't felt like this since i was in my early twenties. This is my second cycle and really haven't had any sides to speak of.

09-06-2004, 06:46 PM	#23
Purdue Power Good Enough Never Is Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Purdue University Posts: 1,351 Photos: 5	What brand of M1T are you using(seems to be potentcy differences btw the brands) and how many sprays of 4Derm are you using? 5'8 1/2, 225lbs Your M1T Info Source Dream as though you'll live forever, Live each day like it's you last. Love like you've never been hurt. Tomorrow is never promised.

09-06-2004, 07:09 PM	#24
Redneck Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 14	Purdue I use Underground Labs m1t 10mg about 7am with 6 sprays of Dermabolics 4ad Derm and then i repeat that around 3:30pm. My wife thinks i'm taking viagra!

09-06-2004, 07:30 PM	#25
Pirate! Gatekepper Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 6,166	Yeah, 12 sprays of 4-derm definitely gets the libido going. It was during PCT--after stopping both at the same time--that my libido was shot. I was actually real horny during the first few days of my cycle, even though I started at only 6 sprays a day (3 sprays twice daily). My 1-Andro RX Journal

09-06-2004, 07:41 PM	#26
Purdue Power Good Enough Never Is Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Purdue University Posts: 1,351 Photos: 5	Ya, I think I AM going to go with the 2 weeks of 4Derm after my 3 weeks of M1T. I think I am going to start on low doses of 6OXO for those 2 weeks, since I have some left over, along with some Irwin Naturals Steel Labido that I got for free from work. I will then start on Nolva after those 2 weeks are over. Someone tell me if this sounds good or if it is a fuckup waiting to happen. 5'8 1/2, 225lbs Your M1T Info Source Dream as though you'll live forever, Live each day like it's you last. Love like you've never been hurt. Tomorrow is never promised.

09-06-2004, 08:05 PM	#28
Redneck Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 14	Pirate The only problem with that many sprays of 4 derm.......I smell like oranges all day.

09-08-2004, 05:41 AM	#30
pop Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 157	can u tell me plz wat 4 derm is, is oxo6 a good test stimulate and Alpha Lipoic Acid can i use this on dianobol does it protect the liver and where can i get it tyvm

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