can this lean stack work?

slydeflex · 09-24-2004, 11:16 AM

I want to do a lean stack and have never used m4ohn or 1,4 andro. However, I have read that this would be a good lean stack that is easy to keep gains. I understand that 1,4 andro is a prohormone that needs to be taken for longer to see results. Also is there a difference between the 1,4 andro diol and dione version? Is one better than the other? I was planning to take m4ohn 16-20mg ed and 1,4 andro 600-800mg ed for 6-8 weeks depending on how the side effects are and how the results appear.

redspy · 09-24-2004, 11:48 AM

Here's Bigcat's explanation of the difference between the diol and dione:--

Quote:

Dione vs. Diol
You may notice that the prohormones have either the addition dione or diol behind them. First of all this signifies the way by which they convert. The dione versions use the enzyme 17-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase and the diol versions use the 3-beta enzyme. In real world terms however we can see that the diol converts at a much higher rate than the dione (15.76% as opposedto 5.61%)Â¹ and is therefore more anabolic and has less chance of aromatisation. Estrogen formation of the diol directly is impossible, which is not so for the diones. The target hormone can always aromatize of course, but there is no risk of estrogen formation directly off a diol prohormone, which keep the estrogen balance in check and decreases the risk of estrogen-related side-effects. It simply cannot aromatize because its structure doesn't allow it.

Peronsally I wouldn't bother with the 1,4 Andro, although it's very low on androgenic side effects, it's not that anabolic IMO. M4OHN is a great cutting cutting compound at higher does and you'll probably see good results with a 6 week cycle. I've seen a number of cycle logs of people running M4OHN and M5AA and it looks a great combo.

slydeflex · 09-24-2004, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redspy

Here's Bigcat's explanation of the difference between the diol and dione:--

Peronsally I wouldn't bother with the 1,4 Andro, although it's very low on androgenic side effects, it's not that anabolic IMO. M4OHN is a great cutting cutting compound at higher does and you'll probably see good results with a 6 week cycle. I've seen a number of cycle logs of people running M4OHN and M5AA and it looks a great combo.

thank you for the information. Is it a concern to stack to methyls together? what would be a reasonable dose to start out with for the above m4ohn/m5aa stack?

redspy · 09-24-2004, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slydeflex

thank you for the information. Is it a concern to stack to methyls together? what would be a reasonable dose to start out with for the above m4ohn/m5aa stack?

Stacking methyls at high doses definitely isn't a good idea as you probably know. I recently ran M1,4ADD and took M5AA (pre-workout only) at 20-40mg. I found using M5AA increased strength during workouts and had a hardening effect on muscularity. I've seen posts on Anabolic Minds with people stacking M4OHN/M5AA every day with no issues.

If you do choose to use M5AA please be aware that it converts to DHT, which can give some people problems if they're prone to male pattern baldness or prostate issues.

Another option is using 4-AD transdermal with the M4OHN. Or if you want to keep it simple run M4OHN at 20mg+ exclusively.

slydeflex · 09-24-2004, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redspy

Stacking methyls at high doses definitely isn't a good idea as you probably know. I recently ran M1,4ADD and took M5AA (pre-workout only) at 20-40mg. I found using M5AA increased strength during workouts and had a hardening effect on muscularity. I've seen posts on Anabolic Minds with people stacking M4OHN/M5AA every day with no issues.

If you do choose to use M5AA please be aware that it converts to DHT, which can give some people problems if they're prone to male pattern baldness or prostate issues.

Another option is using 4-AD transdermal with the M4OHN. Or if you want to keep it simple run M4OHN at 20mg+ exclusively.

thank you for all of the information. If using m4ohn/4ad trans would it still work as a lean stack? How much 4ad would I need? I last did a 1test/4ad cycle using 400mg ed with good results.

redspy · 09-24-2004, 02:03 PM

4-AD would definitely make you bloated while you're on cycle. Post cycle you'd lose the water retention though. If you did choose 4-AD I'd recommend 4Derm, 5 sprays twice per day. 4-AD is usally good for offsetting lethergy/low libido but I don't think M4OHN would affect you too much in that way.

Personally I'd run M4OHN with M5AA, or on it's own.

slydeflex · 09-24-2004, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redspy

4-AD would definitely make you bloated while you're on cycle. Post cycle you'd lose the water retention though. If you did choose 4-AD I'd recommend 4Derm, 5 sprays twice per day. 4-AD is usally good for offsetting lethergy/low libido but I don't think M4OHN would affect you too much in that way.

Personally I'd run M4OHN with M5AA, or on it's own.

Thanks again for the advice. I will give the m4ohn/m5aa try and see how it goes.

09-24-2004, 11:16 AM	#1
slydeflex Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 20	can this lean stack work? I want to do a lean stack and have never used m4ohn or 1,4 andro. However, I have read that this would be a good lean stack that is easy to keep gains. I understand that 1,4 andro is a prohormone that needs to be taken for longer to see results. Also is there a difference between the 1,4 andro diol and dione version? Is one better than the other? I was planning to take m4ohn 16-20mg ed and 1,4 andro 600-800mg ed for 6-8 weeks depending on how the side effects are and how the results appear.

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09-24-2004, 02:03 PM	#6
redspy Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,040	4-AD would definitely make you bloated while you're on cycle. Post cycle you'd lose the water retention though. If you did choose 4-AD I'd recommend 4Derm, 5 sprays twice per day. 4-AD is usally good for offsetting lethergy/low libido but I don't think M4OHN would affect you too much in that way. Personally I'd run M4OHN with M5AA, or on it's own.