ECA Stack help ????

bookstar · 01-04-2005, 11:47 PM

Hello,

I have been on the ECA stack for over a month but it has made me really weird, edgy, my wife see's a change in my attitude (for the worse ), can't sleep, etc... plus it has not done anything for me except wake me up in the morning to do my workouts. That is the only good thing it has done so far.

Anyway, so i am wondering, since it helps energize me and wakes me up in the morning, is it o.k. if I just take it once in the morning and that's it? Or will it not help me anymore? Will it still aid in fat loss if taken on an empty stomach once a day in the morning while working out?

Any comments welcome. Thank you

Purdue Power · 01-05-2005, 02:04 AM

OK, a few things. You shouldn't take it for that long straight. You should go with 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. Your body will become too used to it and dependent. If you want to venture into taking Clen, then you can do 2 weeks clen, 2 weeks ECA. Second, never take ECA on an empty stomach, at least not unless it is right before a meal. It will tear your stomach up. ECA doesn't burn fat so much as it controls your appetite. You should get off of it for a couple weeks before you consider going back on. You can get clen easily through research chemical sites. It works pretty well.

Butterloaf · 01-05-2005, 08:17 AM

I agree, you must take a few days off. I have researched this topic quite A LOT. It shows that for the short term ECA will not have much effect on fat loss, unfortunately. Chronic use is ideal but not many can handle that. Have you taken any breaks?

**Pirate!** · 01-05-2005, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdue Power

You shouldn't take it for that long straight. You should go with 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off.

I disagree here, Buddy. The effects of ECA get better over time--altough it may getter tougher to hop out of the bed in the morning. IMO if you can't hang with ECA, don't mess with clen, either. To answer your question, yes you can just take it once in the morning for an energy booster, but you might want to try something more mild like Lipo-6 or Tight instead of ephedrine products.

gococksDJS · 01-05-2005, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdue Power

OK, a few things. You shouldn't take it for that long straight. You should go with 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. Your body will become too used to it and dependent. If you want to venture into taking Clen, then you can do 2 weeks clen, 2 weeks ECA. Second, never take ECA on an empty stomach, at least not unless it is right before a meal. It will tear your stomach up. ECA doesn't burn fat so much as it controls your appetite. You should get off of it for a couple weeks before you consider going back on. You can get clen easily through research chemical sites. It works pretty well.

this is incorrect. The effects of ECA do not diminish, the stimulant feeling does, so while you might not feel the same energy boost, it's still working. Don't use ECA for just two weeks, thats not enough time. Ive actually read that ECA can actually be more effective when used longer than a month. If ECA is making you too jittery, don't use clen. Just try and make the doses smaller. Take it in the morning or right before your workout. ECA does take away your appetite but that is not all it does, so just take it right before a meal.

sawastea · 01-05-2005, 12:37 PM

Most "cycles" of EC/Y/A are:

* 2 days on, 1 day off
* 5 days on, 2 days off
* 2 weeks on, 1 week off
* 4 weeks on, 2-4 weeks off

gococksDJS · 01-05-2005, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sawastea

Most "cycles" of EC/Y/A are:

* 2 days on, 1 day off
* 5 days on, 2 days off

what? no no no.....this is like taking protein only on days you work out. ECA is not lyposuction, you have to give it some time. there is no reason to only take it for a few days at a time then stop. Ephedrine increases your resting metabolic rate, not just when you are exercising.

sawastea · 01-05-2005, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

what? no no no.....this is like taking protein only on days you work out. ECA is not lyposuction, you have to give it some time. there is no reason to only take it for a few days at a time then stop. Ephedrine increases your resting metabolic rate, not just when you are exercising.

I understand. I'm simply stating that those are the 'popular' cycles, when dealing with ephedrine.

freydo · 01-05-2005, 01:35 PM

I've been taking it for two weeks straight, no problem. I can even take it as late as 7:00 pm and had no trouble sleeping. I also seem to get an immense feeling of relaxation when Im about to go to bed anybody else get this?

truth · 01-05-2005, 02:48 PM

drop the A you don't need it

take EC, i would advise taking only 100mg caffeine with each dose (most caffeine pills are 200mg)

yes you can just take EC once in the morning, whatever helps you

i'd also advise mon-fri ON and sat-sun OFF to prevent dependency

and yes, some studies have shown that EC gets more effective with continued use...you can keep using it, however you lose the stimulation...so you might not THINK or FEEL it working, but it is

Tha Don · 01-05-2005, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdue Power

never take ECA on an empty stomach, at least not unless it is right before a meal. It will tear your stomach up.

man, where did you hear all this??

i always take eca on an empty stomach! i thought that was the most effective way to take eca

peace

truth · 01-05-2005, 04:15 PM

it's fine. immediately upon waking, 30 minutes before lunch and dinner

freydo · 01-05-2005, 04:35 PM

yeah I always take it on an empty stomach, no problems. I was planning on going for about 2 months and then taking some time off.

Tha Don · 01-05-2005, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by truth

it's fine. immediately upon waking, 30 minutes before lunch and dinner

personally i just take 2 doses, 1 before breakfast and 1 before my workout, might try adding a 3rd next time i'm cutting if i can fit them all in before 6pm, any later and i won't be able to sleep for shit! on my last cut i was running 3 caffiene containing supps all at the same time, sleeping was a nightmare! literally!

peace

truth · 01-05-2005, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freydo

yeah I always take it on an empty stomach, no problems. I was planning on going for about 2 months and then taking some time off.

2 months straight? man i would do 5 days on and 2 days off at least for any duration

freydo · 01-05-2005, 06:05 PM

I thought it just mattered how you handled the stack personally. 5 days of 2 off makes sense I guess.

**Pirate!** · 01-05-2005, 06:16 PM

Taking two days off could leave you extra hungry and tired those days. Either get on the horse and ride to the end of the trail, or set up camp. Some people have problems taking ECA on an empty stomach because aspirin can be rough on your stomach. There is no problem taking it with meals. The only reason to take it on an empty stomach is to diminish the appetite before meal time. Otherwise, it makes no difference if your stomach is empty or not.

freydo · 01-05-2005, 06:23 PM

so i can take it for 2 months if I feel that my body is handling it well?

**Pirate!** · 01-05-2005, 06:27 PM

Sure, it just gets better as it goes. You will be more tired than usuall during the first week you take off, but you will adjust. Diet is the most important factor, though.

freydo · 01-05-2005, 06:33 PM

Yeah, my diet isnt bad at all. I just work and go to school and need that little extra kick. It has definately helped the past 2 weeks. My body seems to have adapted well to taking it. I dont get jittery or nervous just more energetic. Im not taking the A with it though. I figure I dont need it.

truth · 01-05-2005, 06:42 PM

yeah, obviously you can take it straight for as long as you can handle, i'm just saying, when you want to get off, you're in for hell. caffeine withdrawal is a BITCH

from my experience with EC, the best way to do it is 1 ephedrine + 100mg caffeine 3x day, 5 days on, 2 days off. this prevents your body becoming dependent, and it will make it easier to taper off and not go through withdrawals when you want to stop.

you don't need 200mg caffeine each dose

truth · 01-05-2005, 06:43 PM

and good call on not taking the A...you don't need it

EC will promote thermogenesis without the A

Tha Don · 01-05-2005, 07:01 PM

i always heard ECA was most effective at 25/250/300 (which is the most common dose from what i've heard)

so your saying use just 25/100/0 just due to the caffiene withdrawl symptoms when you come off? i heard the asprin increases the effectiveness of the stack? no truth in that then?

peace

bookstar · 01-06-2005, 05:33 AM

Ephedrine at 1fast400.com (bulknutrition.com) is currently out of stock. Anyone know why this is? Are they pulling it from their inventory?
Where else can we purchase ephedrine, and for as cheap as 1fast400 sell it?

thanks!

gococksDJS · 01-06-2005, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bookstar

Ephedrine at 1fast400.com (bulknutrition.com) is currently out of stock. Anyone know why this is? Are they pulling it from their inventory?
Where else can we purchase ephedrine, and for as cheap as 1fast400 sell it?

thanks!

You can get it at any gas station...

**Pirate!** · 01-06-2005, 09:33 AM

www.customnutritionwarehoue.com

truth · 01-06-2005, 11:57 AM

no they aren't pulling it, they sell vasopro like mad..just wait, they will re-stock it.

young d, some people prefer to use A with it, they probably "think" it works better because they "heard" it is the best, but no, it's not any more effective than EC alone.

and yes, it is most common that people use 25mg ephedrine and 200mg caffeine, because that's the size of the caffeine pills. you don't need the whole 200mg, it will only make your body become dependent on caffeine quicker, so just cut those pills in half and take 100mg

sawastea · 01-06-2005, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bookstar

Ephedrine at 1fast400.com (bulknutrition.com) is currently out of stock. Anyone know why this is? Are they pulling it from their inventory?
Where else can we purchase ephedrine, and for as cheap as 1fast400 sell it?

thanks!

DNE

sawastea · 01-06-2005, 12:03 PM

This is from an article written by Stephen Schmitz, MD, MPH
and Bruce Kneller, BSN-RN.

Quote:

Aspirin

"Aspirin {salicyclic acid acetate} and it's naturally occurring methyl ester (methyl salicylate)-- found in the leaves of Gaultheria procumbrens and on the bark of Betula lenta-- have long been used as analgesics, anti-inflammatories, antipyretics and recently as anti-coagulants. The "A" portion of ECA, aspirin has been thought of potentiating the thermogenic and lipolytic properties of both ephedrine and caffeine. Recent research seems to contradict this however. At a study at The University of London's Department of Nutrition and Dietetics, 40 women (20 non-obese and 20 obese) were given either ephedrine and caffeine (30 mg and 100 mg) or ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin (30 mg, 100 mg, and 300 mg) post prandially (1050 kJ liquid meal). Using indirect calorimetry, observations were made in all groups every 30 minutes for 160 minutes. There was no significant differences between the groups that received aspirin and the groups that did not. We conclude that aspirin does not potentiate the acute thermic effect of ephedrine and caffeine.6

In another study conducted at King's College in London, it was demonstrated that aspirin does not potentiate the thermogenic response to ephedrine in lean women and only slightly so in obese women.7 The increase seen in this study represented a 1.2 kcal per hour increase in metabolism for lean women and a 2.4 kcal per hour increase in metabolism in obese women over use of ephedrine alone, which over an entire week, would represent less than one ounce of bodyweight. We feel that this is insignificant.7

Based on these two studies, we feel that aspirin and its analogs do not play a substantial role in inducing or increasing thermogenesis and/or lipolysis but they do have the potential to induce SAEs when consumed over long periods of time (e.g. ulceration of the stomach and increases in bleeding times). Therefore, we feel that aspirin and it's analogs should not be used in any thermogenic/lipolytic stack."

6) Horton TJ, Geissler CA. Post-prandial Thermogenesis with Ephedrine, Caffeine and Aspirin in Lean, Predisposed Obese and Non-obese women. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disorder, 1996 Feb;20(2):91-95.
7) Horton TJ, Geissler CA. Aspirin Potentiates the Effect of Ephedrine on the Thermogenic Response to a Meal in Obese but not Lean Women. Int J Obes, 1991 May;15(5):359-366.

Most of the arguements that people make for aspirin state that aspirin extends the thermogenic effects of ephedrine by inhibiting the enzyme cyclooxygenase and therefore decreasing prostaglandin synthesis (why aspirin is an anti-inflammatory). This helps combat one of ephedrine's effects. Ephedrine stimulates the release of norepinephrine, which stimulates the release of adenosine and the synthesis of prostaglandins by the activated tissue. Since aspirin inhibits the synthesis of prostaglandins (1), it is believed it enhances the effect of norepinephrine (the reason why caffeine is included in the stack to combat adenosine). By increasing the amount of norepinephrine one would expect to increase lipolysis. Caffeine achieves this, however in actual studies aspirin as yet to prove the same. One can only hypothesize on why aspirin's effect on prostaglandins does not effect lipolysis.

There have been no studies that I am aware of that show that an ECA stack is more effective than an EC stack. The only studies that have been proven to work are when an ECA stack has been done in a study against a placebo. Couple this information with the effects aspirin has on the stomach (nausea, heartburn, and sometimes bleeding ulcers) one could conclude that the most effective stack would be just Ephedrine and Caffeine.

1. Rawson ES, Clarkson PA. Ephedrine as an ergogenic aid. Performance-enhancing Substances in Sport and Exercise. Ed Bahrke MS, Yesalis CE. Human Kinetics. 2002.

Purdue Power · 01-06-2005, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by young d

man, where did you hear all this??

i always take eca on an empty stomach! i thought that was the most effective way to take eca

peace

First of all, I appoligize for potentially spready wrong info. The reason why I said not to take it on an empty stomach unless it was before a meal was because for a lot of people, the ephedra eats at their stomach lining.

01-04-2005, 11:47 PM	#1
bookstar Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 154	ECA Stack help ???? Hello, I have been on the ECA stack for over a month but it has made me really weird, edgy, my wife see's a change in my attitude (for the worse ), can't sleep, etc... plus it has not done anything for me except wake me up in the morning to do my workouts. That is the only good thing it has done so far. Anyway, so i am wondering, since it helps energize me and wakes me up in the morning, is it o.k. if I just take it once in the morning and that's it? Or will it not help me anymore? Will it still aid in fat loss if taken on an empty stomach once a day in the morning while working out? Any comments welcome. Thank you

01-05-2005, 02:04 AM	#2
Purdue Power Good Enough Never Is Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Purdue University Posts: 1,351 Photos: 5	OK, a few things. You shouldn't take it for that long straight. You should go with 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. Your body will become too used to it and dependent. If you want to venture into taking Clen, then you can do 2 weeks clen, 2 weeks ECA. Second, never take ECA on an empty stomach, at least not unless it is right before a meal. It will tear your stomach up. ECA doesn't burn fat so much as it controls your appetite. You should get off of it for a couple weeks before you consider going back on. You can get clen easily through research chemical sites. It works pretty well. 5'8 1/2, 225lbs Your M1T Info Source Dream as though you'll live forever, Live each day like it's you last. Love like you've never been hurt. Tomorrow is never promised.

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01-05-2005, 08:17 AM	#3
Butterloaf Butterloaf Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Coral Springs, Fl Posts: 33	I agree, you must take a few days off. I have researched this topic quite A LOT. It shows that for the short term ECA will not have much effect on fat loss, unfortunately. Chronic use is ideal but not many can handle that. Have you taken any breaks?

01-05-2005, 12:37 PM	#6
sawastea The Great One Elite Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: NYC, NY Posts: 132	Most "cycles" of EC/Y/A are: * 2 days on, 1 day off * 5 days on, 2 days off * 2 weeks on, 1 week off * 4 weeks on, 2-4 weeks off

01-05-2005, 01:35 PM	#9
freydo Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: arizona Posts: 75	I've been taking it for two weeks straight, no problem. I can even take it as late as 7:00 pm and had no trouble sleeping. I also seem to get an immense feeling of relaxation when Im about to go to bed anybody else get this?

01-05-2005, 02:48 PM	#10
truth Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 116	drop the A you don't need it take EC, i would advise taking only 100mg caffeine with each dose (most caffeine pills are 200mg) yes you can just take EC once in the morning, whatever helps you i'd also advise mon-fri ON and sat-sun OFF to prevent dependency and yes, some studies have shown that EC gets more effective with continued use...you can keep using it, however you lose the stimulation...so you might not THINK or FEEL it working, but it is

01-05-2005, 04:15 PM	#12
truth Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 116	it's fine. immediately upon waking, 30 minutes before lunch and dinner

01-05-2005, 04:35 PM	#13
freydo Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: arizona Posts: 75	yeah I always take it on an empty stomach, no problems. I was planning on going for about 2 months and then taking some time off.

01-05-2005, 06:05 PM	#16
freydo Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: arizona Posts: 75	I thought it just mattered how you handled the stack personally. 5 days of 2 off makes sense I guess.

01-05-2005, 06:16 PM	#17
Pirate! Gatekepper Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 6,168	Taking two days off could leave you extra hungry and tired those days. Either get on the horse and ride to the end of the trail, or set up camp. Some people have problems taking ECA on an empty stomach because aspirin can be rough on your stomach. There is no problem taking it with meals. The only reason to take it on an empty stomach is to diminish the appetite before meal time. Otherwise, it makes no difference if your stomach is empty or not.

01-05-2005, 06:23 PM	#18
freydo Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: arizona Posts: 75	so i can take it for 2 months if I feel that my body is handling it well?

01-05-2005, 06:27 PM	#19
Pirate! Gatekepper Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 6,168	Sure, it just gets better as it goes. You will be more tired than usuall during the first week you take off, but you will adjust. Diet is the most important factor, though.

01-05-2005, 06:33 PM	#20
freydo Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: arizona Posts: 75	Yeah, my diet isnt bad at all. I just work and go to school and need that little extra kick. It has definately helped the past 2 weeks. My body seems to have adapted well to taking it. I dont get jittery or nervous just more energetic. Im not taking the A with it though. I figure I dont need it.

01-05-2005, 06:42 PM	#21
truth Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 116	yeah, obviously you can take it straight for as long as you can handle, i'm just saying, when you want to get off, you're in for hell. caffeine withdrawal is a BITCH from my experience with EC, the best way to do it is 1 ephedrine + 100mg caffeine 3x day, 5 days on, 2 days off. this prevents your body becoming dependent, and it will make it easier to taper off and not go through withdrawals when you want to stop. you don't need 200mg caffeine each dose

01-05-2005, 06:43 PM	#22
truth Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 116	and good call on not taking the A...you don't need it EC will promote thermogenesis without the A

01-05-2005, 07:01 PM	#23
Tha Don Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Nottingham, England Posts: 3,826 Photos: 33	i always heard ECA was most effective at 25/250/300 (which is the most common dose from what i've heard) so your saying use just 25/100/0 just due to the caffiene withdrawl symptoms when you come off? i heard the asprin increases the effectiveness of the stack? no truth in that then? peace

01-06-2005, 05:33 AM	#24
bookstar Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 154	Ephedrine at 1fast400.com (bulknutrition.com) is currently out of stock. Anyone know why this is? Are they pulling it from their inventory? Where else can we purchase ephedrine, and for as cheap as 1fast400 sell it? thanks!

01-06-2005, 09:33 AM	#26
Pirate! Gatekepper Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 6,168	www.customnutritionwarehoue.com

01-06-2005, 11:57 AM	#27
truth Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 116	no they aren't pulling it, they sell vasopro like mad..just wait, they will re-stock it. young d, some people prefer to use A with it, they probably "think" it works better because they "heard" it is the best, but no, it's not any more effective than EC alone. and yes, it is most common that people use 25mg ephedrine and 200mg caffeine, because that's the size of the caffeine pills. you don't need the whole 200mg, it will only make your body become dependent on caffeine quicker, so just cut those pills in half and take 100mg