Taking 4derm by it self...no stack

Curlingcadys · 01-21-2005, 03:42 PM

I recently ruled against taking m1t, just didn't seem like anything I wanted to put in my body. Took about a month to decide this while looking at the bottles everyday

but like I said ruled against it. Anyway I ended up making a good bit of change getting rid of them however my guy that bought it allready had a pretty good stock of 4derm. So my question is, is 4derm effective by itself since I'm stuck with it? Ofcourse the "on bottle" description sounds as if it would be but dont they all

. Just curious if it is worth taking by it self or if its not even worth it and its just meant to be a portion of a stack.

Thanks for any replies

musclepump · 01-21-2005, 03:51 PM

Don't walk around your gym on it. One chica in a tight top and... well... you know...

Curlingcadys · 01-21-2005, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musclepump

Don't walk around your gym on it. One chica in a tight top and... well... you know...

yeah I thought about that too...

Is it really effective for mass building, even just a little bit? I just don't want to throw it away ya know but if its not worth the "wood"

then I wont bother.

redspy · 01-21-2005, 04:09 PM

You'll achieve some gains, but not as much compared to a stack. As 4-AD converts to test some of your gains will be a result of water retention. You're better off stacking it with 1-AD, 19Nor or 1-Test etc.

musclepump · 01-21-2005, 04:11 PM

I'd stack it with M1T.

Curlingcadys · 01-21-2005, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musclepump

I'd stack it with M1T.

That was the intention as I stated in the initial post. But to me anyway, the "cons" out weigh the "pros" when taking m1t. I think I'd feel safer drinking battery acid than taking m1t. Not only the bodily risks but employment risks as well. Granted my job wouldn't be testing for PH's however when I fill that cup will brown piss or my BP is out of wack any Doctor is gonna want to dig and find out why, thats his/her job, and sooner or later it's gonna be evident what I'm taking; and then I'm unemployed and get the pleasure of sitting in the court room again. But hey I'll have some mass on me though right?!

Too bad the mass wont pay the bills.......

musclepump · 01-21-2005, 08:11 PM

Brown piss? Where the fuck did you do your research? lol... Severe sides with M1T are rare. The most common side is lethargy; M1T was awesome for me and I used it alone. Stacked with 4-Derm you should be set and ready to rock.

You drink your battery acid, I'll take my M1T

**dg806** · 01-21-2005, 08:15 PM

I have used it several times myself alone and love it. I'm using it alone right now in some penetrate!

Souped_up · 01-21-2005, 08:34 PM

Actually brown piss happens to me on high dose m1t no matter how much water I drink which is why i now advocate lower dosages for longer. T

Curlingcadys · 01-21-2005, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musclepump

Brown piss? Where the fuck did you do your research? lol... Severe sides with M1T are rare. The most common side is lethargy; M1T was awesome for me and I used it alone. Stacked with 4-Derm you should be set and ready to rock.

You drink your battery acid, I'll take my M1T

maybe you should check on where you did your research dick tracy there's plenty of past threads on this board including a few receant ones stating so. Try to find another way to be a dick if you don't know your shit.

Does brown piss happen often? No, can it? yes.

Souped_up · 01-21-2005, 08:43 PM

Actually 4-AD transdermals arelike doing a modest testosterone cycle if you are doing probably well over a gram a day(thats what I have heard anyways). Only problem is you have to load it up on the transdermal like crazy and practically bathe in it everyday in order to get enough 4-AD in your system to compete with test since your only going to get about 15grams of 4-AD in a 240ml bottle and that is about 20 huge squirts a day.

Ive never done it but thats what I hear. Seems like your body would hit a saturation point though as I remember the guys injecting 4-AD never got much out of it after a few lbs initially.

Curlingcadys · 01-21-2005, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Souped_up

Actually 4-AD transdermals arelike doing a modest testosterone cycle if you are doing probably well over a gram a day(thats what I have heard anyways). Only problem is you have to load it up on the transdermal like crazy and practically bathe in it everyday in order to get enough 4-AD in your system to compete with test since your only going to get about 15grams of 4-AD in a 240ml bottle and that is about 20 huge squirts a day.

Ive never done it but thats what I hear. Seems like your body would hit a saturation point though as I remember the guys injecting 4-AD never got much out of it after a few lbs initially.

noted. thanks

gococksDJS · 01-21-2005, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Souped_up

Actually 4-AD transdermals arelike doing a modest testosterone cycle if you are doing probably well over a gram a day(thats what I have heard anyways). Only problem is you have to load it up on the transdermal like crazy and practically bathe in it everyday in order to get enough 4-AD in your system to compete with test since your only going to get about 15grams of 4-AD in a 240ml bottle and that is about 20 huge squirts a day.

Ive never done it but thats what I hear. Seems like your body would hit a saturation point though as I remember the guys injecting 4-AD never got much out of it after a few lbs initially.

Do you mean to say 4Derm is like doing an injectible test?

**Pirate!** · 01-21-2005, 09:43 PM

I concur with redspy: If you don't want to use M1T, stack it with 1-Test. 6 weeks will do wonders for ya. 4-ad by itself would be fun. Just do a lot and keep nolva on hand. Maybe sign up to an adult website for a month.

Souped_up · 01-21-2005, 09:54 PM

gococks,

The guys that did injectable 4-AD saw gains initially but then they stopped after a couple weeks. Thats what i remember anyways. Makes me think there is some kind of saturation point and the 4-AD is left in the blood unconverted where a lot of gains come from. Maybe others who have tried it in super super high dosages can give us their input.

19-chief · 01-22-2005, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musclepump

Brown piss? Where the fuck did you do your research? lol... Severe sides with M1T are rare. The most common side is lethargy; M1T was awesome for me and I used it alone. Stacked with 4-Derm you should be set and ready to rock.

You drink your battery acid, I'll take my M1T

sorry to pick up so late...

never did run a cycle of m1-t at only 5mg but at 10mg i did experience "brown piss". i was drinking 5-6L of water ED. it may not a lot of water but i'm sure enough not to warrant the sides...

1. brown pee
2. extreme cramping (during hockey games -shins, low back, forearms, grip, ect. pre/during/post games, i was super-hydrated.)
3. low back pumps/cramps
4. headaches
5. waves of lethargy

i still don't believe that m1-t is anything special...
it has it's place but it's not special.
i still think 1-t and 4ad (both trans-d) make the best stack...
you stay in anabolic state for longer periods of time w/o the sides.
JMHO

Curlingcadys · 01-22-2005, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PirateFromHell

I concur with redspy: If you don't want to use M1T, stack it with 1-Test. 6 weeks will do wonders for ya. 4-ad by itself would be fun. Just do a lot and keep nolva on hand. Maybe sign up to an adult website for a month.

I'll have to remember that!

Curlingcadys · 01-22-2005, 07:28 AM

what do you think about stacking it with s1+ and being both trans d's and looking at 350mg ? too much 4-ad?

**Pirate!** · 01-22-2005, 09:25 AM

If you have S1+, you might as well just do that by itself. If you want to add more 4-ad, that is fine. 350 mg of 4-ad is not too much. It depends on your ph experience, though. Is this your first ph cycle? If so, I'd stick to s1+ at the max recommended dose. I seem to remember that is about 5 sprays twice daily, right?

musclepump · 01-22-2005, 10:06 AM

I know that it's "possible" but you made it sound like by taking it, you're magically going to get every side. Calm down. People like you shouldn't even touch ProHormones, Pro-Steroids and definitely not juice. The best thing for you would be to put away even the 4-Derm and grab some whey protein.

Curlingcadys · 01-22-2005, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musclepump

I know that it's "possible" but you made it sound like by taking it, you're magically going to get every side. Calm down. People like you shouldn't even touch ProHormones, Pro-Steroids and definitely not juice. The best thing for you would be to put away even the 4-Derm and grab some whey protein.

Yeah talk to me like yesterday was the first time I picked up dumbell...
People like me...

Jr you don't know me nor have you had hardly any interaction with me on this board,don't attempt to jab & pass judgment on me you'll embarrass yourself as you did in your brown piss statement. Unfortunately sides don't "magically happen" they happen because of what your putting in your body; pending how your body reacts to it there's nothing magical about it. I know I wouldn't get every side, or actually who knows, that's right you don't until you give it a try. As I stated in the beginning I'm passing on m1t cause I just don't like the risks involved. And lastly I'm not all hyped up so there is no calming down needed, however when people try to "push weight" and back it up with advice that spews from their ass it does get a little irritating.

Curlingcadys · 01-22-2005, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PirateFromHell

If you have S1+, you might as well just do that by itself. If you want to add more 4-ad, that is fine. 350 mg of 4-ad is not too much. It depends on your ph experience, though. Is this your first ph cycle? If so, I'd stick to s1+ at the max recommended dose. I seem to remember that is about 5 sprays twice daily, right?

5 sprays that would be correct, I've liked s1+ so I've stuck with that and thought sooner or later I'd want to give m1t a shot but guess I just had a change of heart and soldem' then just stuck with using s1+ but I got 2 bottles of 4derm taunting me for a use!

gococksDJS · 01-22-2005, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curlingcadys

5 sprays that would be correct, I've liked s1+ so I've stuck with that and thought sooner or later I'd want to give m1t a shot but guess I just had a change of heart and soldem' then just stuck with using s1+ but I got 2 bottles of 4derm taunting me for a use!

black market...

gococksDJS · 01-22-2005, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curlingcadys

5 sprays that would be correct, I've liked s1+ so I've stuck with that and thought sooner or later I'd want to give m1t a shot but guess I just had a change of heart and soldem' then just stuck with using s1+ but I got 2 bottles of 4derm taunting me for a use!

black market...

musclepump · 01-22-2005, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curlingcadys

Yeah talk to me like yesterday was the first time I picked up dumbell...
People like me...

Jr you don't know me nor have you had hardly any interaction with me on this board,don't attempt to jab & pass judgment on me you'll embarrass yourself as you did in your brown piss statement. Unfortunately sides don't "magically happen" they happen because of what your putting in your body; pending how your body reacts to it there's nothing magical about it. I know I wouldn't get every side, or actually who knows, that's right you don't until you give it a try. As I stated in the beginning I'm passing on m1t cause I just don't like the risks involved. And lastly I'm not all hyped up so there is no calming down needed, however when people try to "push weight" and back it up with advice that spews from their ass it does get a little irritating.

Fuck if I know, you may have picked up your first dumbbell today.

You don't know me, I don't know you, if you can't take a little razzing here and there, you may want to get some fresh air and try again. It happens here, you've been around awhile, you should know that. Embarassed by my brown piss statement? Hardly. Like I said, you came across as if it happened to everyone. You don't want to take it, that's fine, don't. You're a man (as far as one can tell), no harm done either way. I offered up some advice, you can't seem to handle the way I phrased it--not my fault. Next time I try to help someone out, I'll send it registered mail and use old english so it can't be miscontrued, "Ye should make thy attempt with thou use of M1T..."

Can't take a little jab, you make yourself out to be an ass. If that's how you want to be, fine. It isn't like people use this board to make friends; I come here to learn and help where I can. Spout off at the mouth all you want brotha man.

Curlingcadys · 01-22-2005, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musclepump

Fuck if I know, you may have picked up your first dumbbell today.

You don't know me, I don't know you, if you can't take a little razzing here and there, you may want to get some fresh air and try again. It happens here, you've been around awhile, you should know that. Embarassed by my brown piss statement? Hardly. Like I said, you came across as if it happened to everyone. You don't want to take it, that's fine, don't. You're a man (as far as one can tell), no harm done either way. I offered up some advice, you can't seem to handle the way I phrased it--not my fault. Next time I try to help someone out, I'll send it registered mail and use old english so it can't be miscontrued, "Ye should make thy attempt with thou use of M1T..."

Can't take a little jab, you make yourself out to be an ass. If that's how you want to be, fine. It isn't like people use this board to make friends; I come here to learn and help where I can. Spout off at the mouth all you want brotha man.

advice? where you haven't offered any yet... Besides "I'd stack it with m1t" however if you would have read the post to begin with you would have seen m1t was done away with...thus the whole reason for this thread!....

please just shew fly...

musclepump · 01-22-2005, 02:54 PM

Letting you know personal experience about sides, that M1T is best to use with it, that 4-Derm makes M1T less detrimental as far as lethargy... read between the lines, kiddo.

01-21-2005, 03:42 PM	#1
Curlingcadys Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: WI Posts: 631	Taking 4derm by it self...no stack I recently ruled against taking m1t, just didn't seem like anything I wanted to put in my body. Took about a month to decide this while looking at the bottles everyday but like I said ruled against it. Anyway I ended up making a good bit of change getting rid of them however my guy that bought it allready had a pretty good stock of 4derm. So my question is, is 4derm effective by itself since I'm stuck with it? Ofcourse the "on bottle" description sounds as if it would be but dont they all . Just curious if it is worth taking by it self or if its not even worth it and its just meant to be a portion of a stack. Thanks for any replies

01-21-2005, 03:51 PM	#2
musclepump Celebrity PersonalTrainer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,665 Photos: 128	Don't walk around your gym on it. One chica in a tight top and... well... you know...
	Let's all join together and SPEAK ENGLISH IN AMERICA.

01-21-2005, 04:09 PM	#4
redspy Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,040	You'll achieve some gains, but not as much compared to a stack. As 4-AD converts to test some of your gains will be a result of water retention. You're better off stacking it with 1-AD, 19Nor or 1-Test etc.
redspy Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 3,040

01-21-2005, 04:11 PM	#5
musclepump Celebrity PersonalTrainer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,665 Photos: 128	I'd stack it with M1T.
	Let's all join together and SPEAK ENGLISH IN AMERICA.

01-21-2005, 08:11 PM	#7
musclepump Celebrity PersonalTrainer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,665 Photos: 128	Brown piss? Where the fuck did you do your research? lol... Severe sides with M1T are rare. The most common side is lethargy; M1T was awesome for me and I used it alone. Stacked with 4-Derm you should be set and ready to rock. You drink your battery acid, I'll take my M1T
	Let's all join together and SPEAK ENGLISH IN AMERICA.

01-21-2005, 08:15 PM	#8
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 17,251	I have used it several times myself alone and love it. I'm using it alone right now in some penetrate!
	www.sbmuscle.com

01-21-2005, 08:34 PM	#9
Souped_up Bodybuilder & Moneymaker Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 197	Actually brown piss happens to me on high dose m1t no matter how much water I drink which is why i now advocate lower dosages for longer. T

01-21-2005, 08:43 PM	#11
Souped_up Bodybuilder & Moneymaker Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 197	Actually 4-AD transdermals arelike doing a modest testosterone cycle if you are doing probably well over a gram a day(thats what I have heard anyways). Only problem is you have to load it up on the transdermal like crazy and practically bathe in it everyday in order to get enough 4-AD in your system to compete with test since your only going to get about 15grams of 4-AD in a 240ml bottle and that is about 20 huge squirts a day. Ive never done it but thats what I hear. Seems like your body would hit a saturation point though as I remember the guys injecting 4-AD never got much out of it after a few lbs initially.

01-21-2005, 09:54 PM	#15
Souped_up Bodybuilder & Moneymaker Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 197	gococks, The guys that did injectable 4-AD saw gains initially but then they stopped after a couple weeks. Thats what i remember anyways. Makes me think there is some kind of saturation point and the 4-AD is left in the blood unconverted where a lot of gains come from. Maybe others who have tried it in super super high dosages can give us their input.

01-22-2005, 07:28 AM	#18
Curlingcadys Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: WI Posts: 631	what do you think about stacking it with s1+ and being both trans d's and looking at 350mg ? too much 4-ad?

01-22-2005, 10:06 AM	#20
musclepump Celebrity PersonalTrainer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,665 Photos: 128	I know that it's "possible" but you made it sound like by taking it, you're magically going to get every side. Calm down. People like you shouldn't even touch ProHormones, Pro-Steroids and definitely not juice. The best thing for you would be to put away even the 4-Derm and grab some whey protein.
	Let's all join together and SPEAK ENGLISH IN AMERICA.

01-22-2005, 02:54 PM	#27
musclepump Celebrity PersonalTrainer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,665 Photos: 128	Letting you know personal experience about sides, that M1T is best to use with it, that 4-Derm makes M1T less detrimental as far as lethargy... read between the lines, kiddo.