Creatine question

cider303 · 02-03-2005, 04:09 PM

I have been lifting on and off for atleast 6 years now but i never had any consistancy(high school sports and such). I finally decided to put my mind to it and I have been going 8 months strong now... My question is, when should I start creatine. I hear much talk about saving it for when you are struggling for gains because in the begining just about anything will make you grow. I thought I knew a decent amount about lifting and nutrition but after going through these forums I really dont know all that much and some of the things I thought I knew turned out to be false or unproven. well anyway... I was looking for opinions... anyone?

oh and a point one of my friends made... "If you are not going to body build competitively whats the point of taking a health risk like that" with creatine does anyone know of any health risks?(I could always search but im lazy)

also if I was cutting should I still consider creatine or should I not bother with the water retention?

thanks guys

Witmaster · 02-03-2005, 06:20 PM

Dude, Take Creatine now. 5mg per day (DO NOT GET THE "Liquid Creatine" crap)

No health risks. Tell your friend he is sadly mistaken. Enjoy!

Revolution Max · 02-03-2005, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cider303

I have been lifting on and off for atleast 6 years now but i never had any consistancy(high school sports and such). I finally decided to put my mind to it and I have been going 8 months strong now... My question is, when should I start creatine. I hear much talk about saving it for when you are struggling for gains because in the begining just about anything will make you grow. I thought I knew a decent amount about lifting and nutrition but after going through these forums I really dont know all that much and some of the things I thought I knew turned out to be false or unproven. well anyway... I was looking for opinions... anyone?

oh and a point one of my friends made... "If you are not going to body build competitively whats the point of taking a health risk like that" with creatine does anyone know of any health risks?(I could always search but im lazy)

also if I was cutting should I still consider creatine or should I not bother with the water retention?

thanks guys

Ok I can answer this very easily: When it comes to bodybuilding there are base supps you have that never change(atless you have to)

Here is what I believe you always need:

1-whey
2-creatine
3-flax
4-multi

Now we can get into brands dosages etc, but flax and a multi I will leave up to you, A good whey Is ON and when it comes to creatine you cant go wrong with Cee.

Ps: yes you can use creatine when cutting

RM

Du · 02-03-2005, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolution Max

Ok I can answer this very easily: When it comes to bodybuilding there are base supps you have that never change(atless you have to)

Here is what I believe you always need:

1-whey
2-creatine
3-flax
4-multi

Now we can get into brands dosages etc, but flax and a multi I will leave up to you, A good whey Is ON and when it comes to creatine you cant go wrong with Cee.

Ps: yes you can use creatine when cutting

RM

Youre on the right track... But I'd re-order it like this-

1. Multi
2. Whey Protein
3. Creatine
4. EFA's (including flax)
5. Glutamine

The multi is essential for health. As bodybuilders, we put our body through crazy stresses, demanding greater amounts of vitamins/minerals. Id definitely put those before protein. If you get sick - you cant build. But you can build without supplementing protein.

Optimum Nutrition is good whey, but Id recommend a mix by AllTheWhey.com. Not only do they sponsor this board, but their shit is top shelf, at miller-lite price.

Creatine Ethyl Ester (CEE) is beyond a beginner's level, IMO. A basic creatine monohydrate with grape juice is much more economical, at less than half the price. Also, most people respond just as well with mono as cee. Id honestly suggest the Higher Power 100% Creatine Mono. Or - wait for Rob's creatine product to come out.

And hes right, you can definitely use creatine while cutting. But - creatine causes water retention, leading to some bloat. Of course, bloat is temporary, but its still there. I wouldnt lose any sleep over it.

soxmuscle · 02-03-2005, 08:30 PM

Du -- Why is grape the juice so good to take with creatine again? I couldn't find it when I performed a search.

Du · 02-03-2005, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cider303

oh and a point one of my friends made... "If you are not going to body build competitively whats the point of taking a health risk like that" with creatine does anyone know of any health risks?(I could always search but im lazy)

also if I was cutting should I still consider creatine or should I not bother with the water retention?

thanks guys

Health risks on creatine? Unless you have high BP, youre fine. Just drink water. Creatine is not only created naturally by your body, but also is found in rather high concentrations in some steaks and fish (esp salmon). Do you see anyone having crazy health problems from that? I think not... Youre fine, take creatine.

If you get enough protein with your diet, Id definitely recommend taking creatine. Its natural, just an amino acid. Its safe, and its cheap.

Good luck.

Du · 02-03-2005, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

Du -- Why is grape the juice so good to take with creatine again? I couldn't find it when I performed a search.

Because the fructose in grape juice is a good transport.

Also, although it doesnt create much of a insulin spike, it does raise to an extent. That helps the uptake of the mono into your system, which is always a good thing.

A high GI carb like glucose is a bit better, but I prefer grape juice. I usually eat a few jelly beans or candy right after taking the grape juice/creatine mono concoction, though, too.

Du · 02-03-2005, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soxmuscle

Du -- Why is grape the juice so good to take with creatine again? I couldn't find it when I performed a search.

1 more thing - the reason CellTech is so good is because it is stacked with so much glucose. That creates a hefty insulin spike, which in turn soaks up the creatine mono like a sponge.

Its a similar effect with grape juice. Except your wallet stays heavy.

Revolution Max · 02-03-2005, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by du510

Youre on the right track... But I'd re-order it like this-

1. Multi
2. Whey Protein
3. Creatine
4. EFA's (including flax)
5. Glutamine

The multi is essential for health. As bodybuilders, we put our body through crazy stresses, demanding greater amounts of vitamins/minerals. Id definitely put those before protein. If you get sick - you cant build. But you can build without supplementing protein.

Optimum Nutrition is good whey, but Id recommend a mix by AllTheWhey.com. Not only do they sponsor this board, but their shit is top shelf, at miller-lite price.

Creatine Ethyl Ester (CEE) is beyond a beginner's level, IMO. A basic creatine monohydrate with grape juice is much more economical, at less than half the price. Also, most people respond just as well with mono as cee. Id honestly suggest the Higher Power 100% Creatine Mono. Or - wait for Rob's creatine product to come out.

And hes right, you can definitely use creatine while cutting. But - creatine causes water retention, leading to some bloat. Of course, bloat is temporary, but its still there. I wouldnt lose any sleep over it.

Well I suggested cee because there is no water rentention/bloat so when he cuts he wont have any problems. And also cee you dont have to load up on. Also i believe Glutamine to be a personal preference, alot of preople, and im sure you know this, think it doesnt work.

Du · 02-03-2005, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolution Max

Well I suggested cee because there is no water rentenion/bloat so when he cuts he wont ahve any problems. And also cee you dont have to load up on. Also i believe Glutamin to be a personal preference, alot of preople, and im sure you know this, think it doesnt work.

I hear ya, and your reasons are very valid.

IMO, CEE is way too expensive. You wont get the bloat, as you said, but again IMO, its not worth the money. Holding water is a temporary situation, itll drop when you drop the crea mono.

Glutamine is a great supp, I am very happy with it. Many people dont take enough of it to reap the benefits.

PreMier · 02-03-2005, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by du510

Because the fructose in grape juice is a good transport.

Also, although it doesnt create much of a insulin spike, it does raise to an extent. That helps the uptake of the mono into your system, which is always a good thing.

A high GI carb like glucose is a bit better, but I prefer grape juice. I usually eat a few jelly beans or candy right after taking the grape juice/creatine mono concoction, though, too.

Instead of eating a bunch of dextrose/maltodextrine, use a glucose transport like R-ALA.

PreMier · 02-03-2005, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolution Max

Well I suggested cee because there is no water rentention/bloat so when he cuts he wont have any problems. And also cee you dont have to load up on. Also i believe Glutamine to be a personal preference, alot of preople, and im sure you know this, KNOW it doesnt work.

Correction. Lets not go there in this thread..

Revolution Max · 02-03-2005, 08:47 PM

Idk Guys I just feel like Mono is not worth taking anymore Cee is so much more advanced. The only way i would take moni is if you didnt have the monet to get cee. Your points are valid as well.

Revolution Max · 02-03-2005, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PreMier

Correction. Lets not go there in this thread..

Du · 02-03-2005, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PreMier

Instead of eating a bunch of dextrose/maltodextrine, use a glucose transport like R-ALA.

Good point.... but I was trying to stay away from the extra supps.

I couldve included that in my "analysis" of CellTech, as it has Alpha Lipoic Acid, but I figure that was fine to leave out.

Witmaster · 02-03-2005, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by du510

1 more thing - the reason CellTech is so good is because it is stacked with so much glucose. That creates a hefty insulin spike, which in turn soaks up the creatine mono like a sponge.

Its a similar effect with grape juice. Except your wallet stays heavy.

This is also why Cell Tech contains Chromium Picolinate. I've been told that if you want to spike your insulin levels to increase Creatine Absorbtion, you should take Chromium Picolinate to even out blood suger levels.

PreMier · 02-03-2005, 08:53 PM

ALA is shit. There are studies that show the A isomer is a deterent to the R isomer, making the product "iffy" at best. Anyway, celltech is shit

Creatine
R-ALA
Grapejuice

PreMier · 02-03-2005, 08:54 PM

Some research studies have shown that additional chromium in a person’s diet may help to normalize sugar levels in diabetics, but not in everyone. It is an ideal supplement for more mature adults as the body absorbs less chromium.

Revolution Max · 02-03-2005, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PreMier

Some research studies have shown that additional chromium in a person’s diet may help to normalize sugar levels in diabetics, but not in everyone. It is an ideal supplement for more mature adults as the body absorbs less chromium.

Good info

cider303 · 02-04-2005, 05:45 PM

haha thanks a lot guys... I'll probably be looking into creatine monohydrate because im a poor college student... which also brings me to another point... being on this campus I have never actually seen grape juice sold here. What do you think about powerage or gatorade as a delievery?

Revolution Max · 02-04-2005, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cider303

haha thanks a lot guys... I'll probably be looking into creatine monohydrate because im a poor college student... which also brings me to another point... being on this campus I have never actually seen grape juice sold here. What do you think about powerage or gatorade as a delievery?

Bro some advice, you can listen to all of us all day, go out and look at cee and mono and you decide whats best for you. Good luck..

Ps: good info above bro

Witmaster · 02-04-2005, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PreMier

Some research studies have shown that additional chromium in a person’s diet may help to normalize sugar levels in diabetics, but not in everyone. It is an ideal supplement for more mature adults as the body absorbs less chromium.

Being 37 I suppose I qualify in the "more mature" category?

02-03-2005, 04:09 PM	#1
cider303 go big or go home Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Mass/Conn Posts: 139 Photos: 2	Creatine question I have been lifting on and off for atleast 6 years now but i never had any consistancy(high school sports and such). I finally decided to put my mind to it and I have been going 8 months strong now... My question is, when should I start creatine. I hear much talk about saving it for when you are struggling for gains because in the begining just about anything will make you grow. I thought I knew a decent amount about lifting and nutrition but after going through these forums I really dont know all that much and some of the things I thought I knew turned out to be false or unproven. well anyway... I was looking for opinions... anyone? oh and a point one of my friends made... "If you are not going to body build competitively whats the point of taking a health risk like that" with creatine does anyone know of any health risks?(I could always search but im lazy) also if I was cutting should I still consider creatine or should I not bother with the water retention? thanks guys
	Pain is temporary. Pride is forever.

02-03-2005, 06:20 PM	#2
Witmaster Esprit de Corps Elite Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 4,855 Photos: 6	Dude, Take Creatine now. 5mg per day (DO NOT GET THE "Liquid Creatine" crap) No health risks. Tell your friend he is sadly mistaken. Enjoy!
	NEVER write a check with your mouth that you can't cash with your ASS!! I can run faster mad than you can scared "All right brain... I don't like you and you don't like me. So let's just do this and I'll get back to killing you with beer" ~ Homer Simpson

02-03-2005, 08:30 PM	#5
soxmuscle do work son Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: I will eat your face Posts: 8,123 Photos: 10	Du -- Why is grape the juice so good to take with creatine again? I couldn't find it when I performed a search.
	Age: 20 \| Height: 5'7" \| Weight: 150 lbs \| Penis: 12 inches

02-03-2005, 08:47 PM	#13
Revolution Max Now Cutting Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: NY Posts: 165	Idk Guys I just feel like Mono is not worth taking anymore Cee is so much more advanced. The only way i would take moni is if you didnt have the monet to get cee. Your points are valid as well.
	Look Out For My Upcoming Company Revolution Max (RM)

02-03-2005, 08:53 PM	#17
PreMier happy sumo Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 21,055 Photos: 2	ALA is shit. There are studies that show the A isomer is a deterent to the R isomer, making the product "iffy" at best. Anyway, celltech is shit Creatine R-ALA Grapejuice
	P-side Inc. "the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.

02-03-2005, 08:54 PM	#18
PreMier happy sumo Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 21,055 Photos: 2	Some research studies have shown that additional chromium in a person’s diet may help to normalize sugar levels in diabetics, but not in everyone. It is an ideal supplement for more mature adults as the body absorbs less chromium.
	P-side Inc. "the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.

02-04-2005, 05:45 PM	#20
cider303 go big or go home Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Mass/Conn Posts: 139 Photos: 2	haha thanks a lot guys... I'll probably be looking into creatine monohydrate because im a poor college student... which also brings me to another point... being on this campus I have never actually seen grape juice sold here. What do you think about powerage or gatorade as a delievery?
	Pain is temporary. Pride is forever.

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