M1T Gyno, progesterone, prolactin

**dg806** · 04-08-2005, 10:27 AM

All methyls can have some type of progesterone activity. Estrogen is the single most important aspect of gyno. Its very simple, if you block the receptors that are responsible for gyno (which tamoxifen does) the chances are reduced. Tamoxifen also has a better chance of stopping gyno from the effects of prolactin/on estrogen.
So in the end it doesn't matter if progesterone/prolactin is high because there is no condition to aggravate when receptors are being blocked.
If you think you may be prone, take 10-20mg of Nolva daily while on cycle and this should stop gyno from forming. But, most people should not have a problem with it.

Stu · 04-08-2005, 10:33 AM

would taking vit B6 regularly through out the day be beneficial as well?

**dg806** · 04-08-2005, 10:34 AM

There are no studies that says it does. I would stick with tried and true nolva.

dstack · 04-08-2005, 11:58 AM

Can Nova reduce and rid of gyno if it has already begun to form?

**dg806** · 04-08-2005, 01:11 PM

It's your best bet!

OmarJackson · 04-08-2005, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dstack

Can Nova reduce and rid of gyno if it has already begun to form?

yes! there is a study specifically pertaining to this, you can find it on anabolicminds

OmarJackson · 04-08-2005, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg806

All methyls can have some type of progesterone activity. Estrogen is the single most important aspect of gyno. Its very simple, if you block the receptors that are responsible for gyno (which tamoxifen does) the chances are reduced. Tamoxifen also has a better chance of stopping gyno from the effects of prolactin/on estrogen.
So in the end it doesn't matter if progesterone/prolactin is high because there is no condition to aggravate when receptors are being blocked.
If you think you may be prone, take 10-20mg of Nolva daily while on cycle and this should stop gyno from forming. But, most people should not have a problem with it.

after skimming some threads over at AM it seems that:

your right in the fact that if you keep estrogen low on cycle by running a SERM alongside you negate progesterone related problems, but its not SERMs compete for the estrogen receptor (they bind to a different one altogeter)

but regardless of nolva's course of action against progesterone, all the big-wigs over their seem to agree that nolva should be run at 20-40mg ED to avoid any progesterone issues.

**dg806** · 04-08-2005, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmarJackson

but its not SERMs compete for the estrogen receptor (they bind to a different one altogeter)

Not sure what this means?
Tamox does block the actions of estrogen in breast tissues and certain other tissues by "occupying" the estrogen receptors on cells.

OmarJackson · 04-08-2005, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg806

Not sure what this means?
Tamox does block the actions of estrogen in breast tissues and certain other tissues by "occupying" the estrogen receptors on cells.

what i meant to say is that nolva won't work to 'block' progestins the same way they 'block' estrogen by competing for the receptor. progesterone has its own receptor. but its all moot, nolva should take care of the estrogen, which makes even high levels of progestins a non-issue.

here is some technical stuff from nandi.

Quote:

Regarding prolactin, androgens decrease prolactin levels whereas estrogens increase prolactin. Non-aromatizing androgens have never been shown to elevate prolactin levels in humans, but testosterone has, due to its aromatization to estradiol (19). Prolactin secreting tumors, or prolactinomas, are often associated with gyno. But in these cases the prolactin is believed to induce gyno by suppressing testosterone production: “Prolactinomas that are sufficiently large to cause gynecomastia do so as a result of impairment of gonadotropin secretion and secondary hypogonadism”. (20). However, this is a moot issue in AAS users whose gonadotropin secretion is already blunted.

According to research cited in (20), prolactin may have a direct stimulatory effect on mammary tissue development, but only in the presence of high estrogen levels:

The presence of mild hyperprolactinaemia is therefore not uncommon in patients with estrogen excess. Significant primary hyperprolactinaemia, on the other hand, may directly stimulate epithelial cell proliferation in an estrogen-primed breast, causing epithelial cell proliferation and gynaecomastia.

So rather than focusing solely on lowering prolactin levels which may be elevated in users of aromatizing androgens, attacking estrogen should be the first line of action.

Cardinal · 04-08-2005, 08:33 PM

Thanks, this is good info, especially should one want to run something like Tren! I think tren gyno is also progesterone related. I am going to be on nolva until I am 50.

Nolva is the shit though. I had a hard ass lump from test about 7 weeks ago in the middle of my cycle. Here in the middle of PCT I can't tell it is even there!

**dg806** · 04-08-2005, 08:39 PM

[quote=OmarJackson] progesterone has its own receptor. but its all moot, nolva should take care of the estrogen, which makes even high levels of progestins a non-issue.

QUOTE]
nolva should take care of the estrogen, which makes even high levels of progestins a non-issue.
Exactly!!

roidrage_ph · 04-08-2005, 09:12 PM

Clomid acts in a very similar manner as tamoxifen does but recent studies show that tamoxifen is the way to go. By the way, I came across a bottle of 'TAMOXSTA" Tamoxifen tablets, at 30 mg per tab. My Endocrinologist friend told me to stay with 20 mg Nolvadex and reserve the Tamoxsta to treat already existing ggyno. I wonder if you have this drug there.

dstack · 04-14-2005, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardinal

Thanks, this is good info, especially should one want to run something like Tren! I think tren gyno is also progesterone related. I am going to be on nolva until I am 50.

Nolva is the shit though. I had a hard ass lump from test about 7 weeks ago in the middle of my cycle. Here in the middle of PCT I can't tell it is even there!

That's encouraging! I started Nolva 4 days ago.

Stu · 04-14-2005, 08:48 AM

I think dostinex is recommended for when running tren

RCfootball87 · 04-14-2005, 05:15 PM

Would high doses on of 6-oxo be sufficient after a medium M1t cycle 10mg/ed for 3-4 weeks? By high I mean on the order of 900mg e/d week one, 600mg e/d week two, 300 mg e/d weeks 3-4.

04-08-2005, 10:27 AM	#1
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 18,197	M1T Gyno, progesterone, prolactin All methyls can have some type of progesterone activity. Estrogen is the single most important aspect of gyno. Its very simple, if you block the receptors that are responsible for gyno (which tamoxifen does) the chances are reduced. Tamoxifen also has a better chance of stopping gyno from the effects of prolactin/on estrogen. So in the end it doesn't matter if progesterone/prolactin is high because there is no condition to aggravate when receptors are being blocked. If you think you may be prone, take 10-20mg of Nolva daily while on cycle and this should stop gyno from forming. But, most people should not have a problem with it. 1-Andro Rx Pro-hormone

04-08-2005, 10:34 AM	#3
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 18,197	There are no studies that says it does. I would stick with tried and true nolva. 1-Andro Rx Pro-hormone

04-08-2005, 11:58 AM	#4
dstack Moving to a new intesity! Elite Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL Posts: 154 Photos: 8	Can Nova reduce and rid of gyno if it has already begun to form? Check out my diverse website to see what supplements, books, websites and inspiring thoughts have helped me. www.rodstephens.com

04-08-2005, 01:11 PM	#5
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 18,197	It's your best bet! 1-Andro Rx Pro-hormone

04-08-2005, 08:39 PM	#11
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 18,197	[quote=OmarJackson] progesterone has its own receptor. but its all moot, nolva should take care of the estrogen, which makes even high levels of progestins a non-issue. QUOTE] nolva should take care of the estrogen, which makes even high levels of progestins a non-issue. Exactly!! 1-Andro Rx Pro-hormone

04-08-2005, 10:33 AM	#2
Stu cooking up a storm Elite Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: UK Posts: 1,868 Photos: 1	would taking vit B6 regularly through out the day be beneficial as well?

04-08-2005, 08:33 PM	#10
Cardinal Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,009	Thanks, this is good info, especially should one want to run something like Tren! I think tren gyno is also progesterone related. I am going to be on nolva until I am 50. Nolva is the shit though. I had a hard ass lump from test about 7 weeks ago in the middle of my cycle. Here in the middle of PCT I can't tell it is even there!

04-08-2005, 09:12 PM	#12
roidrage_ph Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2	Clomid acts in a very similar manner as tamoxifen does but recent studies show that tamoxifen is the way to go. By the way, I came across a bottle of 'TAMOXSTA" Tamoxifen tablets, at 30 mg per tab. My Endocrinologist friend told me to stay with 20 mg Nolvadex and reserve the Tamoxsta to treat already existing ggyno. I wonder if you have this drug there.

04-14-2005, 08:48 AM	#14
Stu cooking up a storm Elite Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: UK Posts: 1,868 Photos: 1	I think dostinex is recommended for when running tren

04-14-2005, 05:15 PM	#15
RCfootball87 Rhino Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Rockford, Illinois Posts: 1,303	Would high doses on of 6-oxo be sufficient after a medium M1t cycle 10mg/ed for 3-4 weeks? By high I mean on the order of 900mg e/d week one, 600mg e/d week two, 300 mg e/d weeks 3-4. back for the first time....

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