Why no love for Casein here.

min0 lee · 11-24-2005, 10:44 AM

I think it's a great protien supplement to drink before bed, anyone else use this? In not then whey....I mean why?

TJ Cline · 11-24-2005, 10:45 AM

When I worked in the industry I had cases of it at home.....loved the stuff especially as a midnight snack.

min0 lee · 11-24-2005, 11:00 AM

I noticed the increase in wieght gain from it. It's the one supplement I never miss.

Snack? Do you mean snack as in a casien bar snack?

TJ Cline · 11-24-2005, 11:08 AM

No it was a liquid shake in a can.........Extreme smoothie, all the companies have a shake like it.

PreMier · 11-24-2005, 11:10 AM

Yea, its a great protein.. but is it worth the cost? To me its more effective to eat some cottage cheese, or some lean meat.

BulkMeUp · 11-24-2005, 11:11 AM

I'v never tried it. But i do have it in mind. When my bulk comes to a point where i cannot stuff another scrap of food down my piehole, i will consider this for my last meal instead of CC+EVOO+walnuts that i presently eat.

min0 lee · 11-24-2005, 11:11 AM

Do you still take it?

TJ Cline · 11-24-2005, 11:13 AM

No, I eat cottage cheese instead. I might pick some up if I can find them for a good price.......Free was very nice, but those days are past

min0 lee · 11-24-2005, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PreMier

Yea, its a great protein.. but is it worth the cost? To me its more effective to eat some cottage cheese, or some lean meat.

I can't stomache cottage cheese, but wouldn't eating some lean meat and casien before bed be a good way to bulk?

PreMier · 11-24-2005, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

I can't stomache cottage cheese, but wouldn't eating some lean meat and casien before bed be a good way to bulk?

Yea.. some lean meat and some greens is always great. You could even pop a bunch of fish caps with it, or a tbsp or 2 of PB.

If you can afford the casein blend protein more power to ya.

min0 lee · 11-24-2005, 11:37 AM

I did a little search and found this on T-nation, it's just a little tidbit for those interested.

Source

Quote:

Casein: The Number One Contender

Casein has often been the overlooked protein through the years, often brushed aside by the supposedly superior whey isolates. That is most unfortunate, because, as I'm about to show you, this feisty underdog just may be the best protein by far! Let's check out the data that supports this idea.

The first study consisted of sixteen young, healthy subjects (average age 24) who were given either a protein drink containing casein or whey. They then measured the rates of protein synthesis and breakdown. What happened? In the subjects consuming casein, whole body protein breakdown was progressively inhibited for 300 minutes by 34%. Whey, on the other hand, had no effect. Wham! Whey takes a hard left and is driven into the ropes!

However, in whey's favor, it did stimulate protein synthesis by 68%, whereas casein stimulated it by only 31%. So, whey must have caused the greater protein balance, right? Nope. In fact, although whey did increase protein synthesis to a higher extent, this effect didn't last long. You see, when researchers measured synthesis rates at 100 minutes, the above was indeed true. However, when they measured the rates again at 300 minutes, synthesis rates returned to baseline levels with whey, but they were still significantly elevated with casein!

Whey also caused a significant increase in oxidation of protein. For those of you who believe that your body becomes more efficient at breaking down protein when oxidation increases (and I, for one, don't), you might want to reconsider your choice of using whey, or at least reconsider taking it by itself.(1)

So, let's recap the main points learned from this study. Number one, casein ingestion results in a greater deposition of protein than whey. In other words, more muscle! Also, after whey protein is ingested, the rate of protein synthesis increases quickly and to a high degree, but not for a long period of time. It causes an increase in protein synthesis and oxidation, but no change in protein breakdown.

In comparison, casein slightly increases protein synthesis and inhibits breakdown to an extreme degree while causing just a slight increase in oxidation. The authors also gave a reason as to why these results occurred. They concluded that since casein clots in the stomach to form a sort of gel, it causes a slow, but prolonged release of amino acids into the bloodstream, thereby increasing synthesis slightly and inhibiting breakdown to a large degree. Whey protein, however, is rapidly emptied from the stomach causing large amounts of amino acids to be released. This results in a large and swift increase in synthesis and oxidation, but no change in breakdown.

Here's another study in casein's favor. This one was a randomized, twelve week study using either whey in a calorie restricted diet with resistance training (whey group) or casein in a calorie restricted diet with resistance training (casein group). There was also one group receiving nothing, but still training and dieting (diet only group).

Researchers used 11 normal, healthy men who all had weight training experience for each protein group along with 10 guys in the "diet only" group. The average age was 34. They then measured body fat, lean body mass, and strength during weeks 4, 8, and 12. After 4 weeks, it was noted that fat mass had decreased in all groups; however, lean mass and strength gains were only significantly increased in the casein group. After 12 weeks, lean mass gains were doubled and fat loss increased 50% in the casein versus whey protein group!(2) Ouch, whey falls to the mat and gets a standing eight count! He's looking shaky and his corner men are looking around for the white towel!

But the fight's not over. The casein group also increased muscle strength in all three exercises (chest press, shoulder press, and leg extension) more rapidly and to a greater degree than the whey group, with a 59% increase in strength for the casein group and only a 28% increase for whey. Bam! Whey takes a stiff uppercut to the chin!

At the end of the study, the casein group lost 7.0 kilos or 15.4 lbs of fat while gaining 4.1 kilos or 9.02 lbs of muscle on average! All the while, the whey group only lost 4.2 kilos or 9.24 lbs of fat while gaining 2.0 kilos or 4.4 lbs of muscle. The "diet only" group lost 2.5 kilos or 5.5 lbs of fat while gaining 0.4 kilos or .88 lbs of muscle. At this point, whey is bleeding freely and his left eye is almost swollen shut.

Still not convinced, Mr. Cynical Sid, of casein's weight advantage and longer reach? Maybe I should let you know about a study where burn patients (who demonstrate extremely high metabolisms and protein oxidation rates) were given a casein supplement of 70-75 grams a day combined with a nutrition and exercise program. The patients increased lean mass twice as fast as another group using the same program but using 75 grams of whey instead.(3) I may be going out on a limb here, but if these patients were able to gain more muscle using casein than whey, in spite of extremely high metabolisms, maybe casein should be the choice protein for the "hypertrophy challenged" guys with metabolisms equivalent to my sexual performance times. (In other words, extremely fast.)

Oh yes, and for you health conscious guys, casein also has some beneficial effects. (Honestly, the following benefits don't intrigue me that much since I'm 19 years old and therefore, seven feet tall and bullet proof, but it's nice to know casein is also good for me in the long run.) Casein has been shown to increase HDL levels,(2, 3) inhibit platelet aggregation, and even has some opioid like peptides, which could help to ease pain of muscles and joints.(4,5,6,7) Casein also has a high ratio of tyrosine/trytptophan, about 5 to 1, so it won't make you feel groggy. Plus, it has the highest amount of glutamine out of all the most commonly consumed proteins.

So, if I had to give casein a fight profile, it would look like this: 250 lb, 4% body fat and one mean bastard. Not only will casein kick Mr. Catabolic's ass, he keeps doing it for hours at a time! He enjoys kicking ass! To me, casein is the ultimate warrior, Mike Tyson meets Royce Gracie with a little Shaft thrown in to get the attitude right. But, could we tweak casein a little and get even more benefits? Read on and see for yourself.

PreMier · 11-24-2005, 11:44 AM

What brand are you using?

LAM · 11-24-2005, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PreMier

Yea, its a great protein.. but is it worth the cost? To me its more effective to eat some cottage cheese, or some lean meat.

protein supplements are more cost effective than whole food protien supplements, the much higher BV equals more protein for the money. you also get about double the L-Leucine out of a serving of caesin than you do from any whole food protein source. making it superior in terms of it's anti-catabolic properties

FishOrCutBait · 11-24-2005, 11:59 AM

And its freaking easy. I like allthewhey.com's micellar casein

min0 lee · 11-24-2005, 12:03 PM

I just started using Optimum Nutrition but before that I was using (don't laugh) muscletech nitrotech nighttime.....it was free.

min0 lee · 11-24-2005, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishOrCutBait

And its freaking easy. I like allthewhey.com's micellar casein

Quote:

Micellar Casein is available in three flavors. Each 1 ounce ( 28.4 g )serving provides up to 23 grams of protein (unflavored); 22 g protein in Vanilla and 21 g protein in the Chocolate flavor.The products contain less than 1 g fat and 2 g carbohydrate per serving. The product is a very rich source of natural calcium - approx. 700 mg per serving.

Not bad for $20.00

FishOrCutBait · 11-24-2005, 12:10 PM

I like it, lasts for a month, I use the unflavored, and add it to 1 scoop of their chocolate mint whey

strongpointe85 · 11-24-2005, 12:15 PM

1% Cottage Cheese is TRULY amazinggg... I can eat it by the boatload but sometimes I get scared cuz theres so much salt in it... lol

PreMier · 11-24-2005, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAM

protein supplements are more cost effective than whole food protien supplements, the much higher BV equals more protein for the money. you also get about double the L-Leucine out of a serving of caesin than you do from any whole food protein source. making it superior in terms of it's anti-catabolic properties

oh

good post.

min0 lee · 11-24-2005, 12:31 PM

Good post as usaul Lam.
`

topolo · 11-24-2005, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by min0 lee

I just started using Optimum Nutrition but before that I was using (don't laugh) muscletech nitrotech nighttime.....it was free.

\\I use this, but it doesnt mix well

min0 lee · 11-24-2005, 02:22 PM

ON or muscletech?

topolo · 11-24-2005, 06:53 PM

ASSPUNCTURE · 11-24-2005, 07:27 PM

Metrx

Tryin2bBig · 11-25-2005, 07:16 PM

a newbie ques - casein and egg protein supps are both slow absorbing proteins yea? btw, casein protein is made from what?

PreMier · 11-25-2005, 07:21 PM

Casein is milk. Egg albumin is made from egg whites.

11-24-2005, 10:44 AM	#1
min0 lee Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The Bronx, NYC Posts: 33,816 Blog Entries: 3 Photos: 542	Why no love for Casein here. I think it's a great protien supplement to drink before bed, anyone else use this? In not then whey....I mean why?
	How To Do The Perfect Bench Press Rep Bodybuilding and Lifting Weights, the Difference ironmagazine-frapper BONECRUSHER '08

11-24-2005, 10:45 AM	#2
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,544	When I worked in the industry I had cases of it at home.....loved the stuff especially as a midnight snack.
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,544

11-24-2005, 11:00 AM	#3
min0 lee Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The Bronx, NYC Posts: 33,816 Blog Entries: 3 Photos: 542	I noticed the increase in wieght gain from it. It's the one supplement I never miss. Snack? Do you mean snack as in a casien bar snack?
	How To Do The Perfect Bench Press Rep Bodybuilding and Lifting Weights, the Difference ironmagazine-frapper BONECRUSHER '08

11-24-2005, 11:08 AM	#4
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,544	No it was a liquid shake in a can.........Extreme smoothie, all the companies have a shake like it.
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,544

11-24-2005, 11:10 AM	#5
PreMier happy sumo Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 21,308 Photos: 2	Yea, its a great protein.. but is it worth the cost? To me its more effective to eat some cottage cheese, or some lean meat.
	P-side Inc. "the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.

11-24-2005, 11:11 AM	#6
BulkMeUp ..is bulking up! Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Cana-dah Posts: 5,326	I'v never tried it. But i do have it in mind. When my bulk comes to a point where i cannot stuff another scrap of food down my piehole, i will consider this for my last meal instead of CC+EVOO+walnuts that i presently eat.

11-24-2005, 11:13 AM	#8
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,544	No, I eat cottage cheese instead. I might pick some up if I can find them for a good price.......Free was very nice, but those days are past
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,544

11-24-2005, 11:44 AM	#12
PreMier happy sumo Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 21,308 Photos: 2	What brand are you using?
	P-side Inc. "the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.

11-24-2005, 11:59 AM	#14
FishOrCutBait lifts weights Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Buffalo, MN Posts: 4,296 Blog Entries: 1 Photos: 2	And its freaking easy. I like allthewhey.com's micellar casein
	I believe in Jesus. Eat to live. "tried and true theory on one's self is probably the only non-biased proof that something works for someone." - juggernaut

11-24-2005, 12:03 PM	#15
min0 lee Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The Bronx, NYC Posts: 33,816 Blog Entries: 3 Photos: 542	I just started using Optimum Nutrition but before that I was using (don't laugh) muscletech nitrotech nighttime.....it was free.
	How To Do The Perfect Bench Press Rep Bodybuilding and Lifting Weights, the Difference ironmagazine-frapper BONECRUSHER '08

11-24-2005, 12:10 PM	#17
FishOrCutBait lifts weights Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Buffalo, MN Posts: 4,296 Blog Entries: 1 Photos: 2	I like it, lasts for a month, I use the unflavored, and add it to 1 scoop of their chocolate mint whey
	I believe in Jesus. Eat to live. "tried and true theory on one's self is probably the only non-biased proof that something works for someone." - juggernaut

11-24-2005, 12:15 PM	#18
strongpointe85 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: MA, USA Posts: 58	1% Cottage Cheese is TRULY amazinggg... I can eat it by the boatload but sometimes I get scared cuz theres so much salt in it... lol
	Who needs OTC supplements other than Vitamins when theres so much god damned FOOD!?!?!

11-24-2005, 12:31 PM	#20
min0 lee Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The Bronx, NYC Posts: 33,816 Blog Entries: 3 Photos: 542	Good post as usaul Lam. `
	How To Do The Perfect Bench Press Rep Bodybuilding and Lifting Weights, the Difference ironmagazine-frapper BONECRUSHER '08

11-24-2005, 02:22 PM	#22
min0 lee Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The Bronx, NYC Posts: 33,816 Blog Entries: 3 Photos: 542	ON or muscletech?
	How To Do The Perfect Bench Press Rep Bodybuilding and Lifting Weights, the Difference ironmagazine-frapper BONECRUSHER '08

11-24-2005, 07:27 PM	#24
ASSPUNCTURE Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: popping pills while Im carrying HEat so that the effects are in 3D when I splatter your BeaK Posts: 518	Metrx

11-25-2005, 07:16 PM	#25
Tryin2bBig Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 15	a newbie ques - casein and egg protein supps are both slow absorbing proteins yea? btw, casein protein is made from what?
Tryin2bBig Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 15

11-25-2005, 07:21 PM	#26
PreMier happy sumo Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 21,308 Photos: 2	Casein is milk. Egg albumin is made from egg whites.
	P-side Inc. "the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.