Thread: Fat burner - muscle sparing

Ephedrine/Caffeine is known to be tissue sparing. Coleus Forskohli is also quite tissue sparing. Some of the 7-keto derivatives will burn fat through upregulating the thyroid, but will also lower cortisol, which is actually a muscle enhancing property.

This may be a stupid question, but is ephedrine dangerous at all, or only if you take improper dosages?

No, not unless you have medical issues, or go nuts with the dose. Im on it as I type 25/200/81 e/c/a Did cardio today, killer leg workout and im still high as a kite. Just drink lots and lots of water. I find i get tight in the chest and throat, chugging water instantly relieves it. I must be over 2 gallons a day.

Oh ephedrine how i missed you...lets never fight again.

Here's an interesting link for the caffeine regarding its stimulant and fat-burning properties.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3122319.stm

Originally Posted by Seanp156

This may be a stupid question, but is ephedrine dangerous at all, or only if you take improper dosages?

Yes, it can be dangerous. You could experience irregular heartbeats, vasoconstriction, increased blood pressure and resting heart rate. Not to mention it's effect SNS and on norepinephrine and dopamine.

Originally Posted by 40-yard dash_2

Yes, it can be dangerous. You could experience irregular heartbeats, vasoconstriction, increased blood pressure and resting heart rate. Not to mention it's effect SNS and on norepinephrine and dopamine.

Arent those the desired effects? Those are all the reasons for taking it, besides the irregular heart beat. What did you think the benefits were?

Originally Posted by Seanp156

This may be a stupid question, but is ephedrine dangerous at all, or only if you take improper dosages?

There have been millions of doses of ephedrine/caffeine taken in the world and very few medical problems as a result. Yes, for some sensitive people there can be side effects, but those normally dissipate within a week or so of use. If you have a heart condition or high blood pressure, than obviously you should not be using ephedrine/caffeine, but for a healthy person that does not abuse these stimulants, there is very little risk of a major problem.

Originally Posted by gopro

Ephedrine/Caffeine is known to be tissue sparing. Coleus Forskohli is also quite tissue sparing. Some of the 7-keto derivatives will burn fat through upregulating the thyroid, but will also lower cortisol, which is actually a muscle enhancing property.

Outstanding. Thanks for the info

Originally Posted by gopro

There have been millions of doses of ephedrine/caffeine taken in the world and very few medical problems as a result. Yes, for some sensitive people there can be side effects, but those normally dissipate within a week or so of use. If you have a heart condition or high blood pressure, than obviously you should not be using ephedrine/caffeine, but for a healthy person that does not abuse these stimulants, there is very little risk of a major problem.

I respect your opinion, but I still wouldn't recommend E/C.

Originally Posted by 40-yard dash_2

I respect your opinion, but I still wouldn't recommend E/C.

Which fat burners would you recommend?
I have a couple samples (8 day supply) of Ventilean by Pharmagenx, but I don't think it has any of those ingredients that anybody mentioned...

Originally Posted by Hlanderr

Which fat burners would you recommend?
I have a couple samples (8 day supply) of Ventilean by Pharmagenx, but I don't think it has any of those ingredients that anybody mentioned...

Are we talking for energy/less fat loss, or stricting fat burning? A "Thermo" I'd recommend AMP, Scorch, and Basic Cuts. For fat burning, I'm gonna say hands down Melting Point. Nothing I've tried can rival TetradecylThioacetic Acid (TTA). Sesamin works okay for fat loss, but I didn't have much success with it. Sesamin does offer health benefits like MP.

Isn't ventilean just a ton of Synephrine?

Any, sort Art, but I have to agree with Eric on this one -- E/C is relatively safe, IMO. And its excellent for appetite suppression, though I never saw any fat-loss benefits from it. Course, I felt the same about clen (which I most definitely would NOT recommend).

Originally Posted by Twin Peak

Isn't ventilean just a ton of Synephrine?

Any, sort Art, but I have to agree with Eric on this one -- E/C is relatively safe, IMO. And its excellent for appetite suppression, though I never saw any fat-loss benefits from it. Course, I felt the same about clen (which I most definitely would NOT recommend).

Do you know of Ventilean? I can't find information about if it's muscle sparing. What would you say about it?

I just remember there being a whole hell of a lot of synephrine. But that was a while ago, and it may be a different formula now.

Originally Posted by Twin Peak

I just remember there being a whole hell of a lot of synephrine. But that was a while ago, and it may be a different formula now.

In it's proprietary blend its the third ingredient.

Do you know anything about it? Is it bad for muscle sparing?

Originally Posted by Twin Peak

Any, sort Art, but I have to agree with Eric on this one -- E/C is relatively safe, IMO.

That's cool. Your entitled to your opinion as am I. We both have our reasons.

Indeed.

Originally Posted by Hlanderr

In it's proprietary blend its the third ingredient.

Do you know anything about it? Is it bad for muscle sparing?

Frankly, I don't know. But you are a bit too obsessed with muscle sparing. If you want muscle sparing, take some androgens, or at least a supplement that will truly assist in muscle sparing like ActivaTe.

Otherwise, don't get hung up on the muscle sparing concept. Essentially, any good fat-burner, will cause you to lose weight. Some will be fat, and some muscle. How much of each depends on your body chemistry, how fat/lean you are, your diet, etc. You may change the % to a degree, by using products that are known partitioning agents. E/C is one. TTA is (likely) another. I have not heard the same about synephrine, and I do not know what else is in Ventilean.

e/c/y is a good stack.

Art and Steve, I am glad to see you guys disagree and reconcile. Perhaps you two should get a nice nottle of wine and explore each others' pleasure zones now.

The keys to sparing muscle while dieting are food choice/timing and not overtraining or overdoing cardio. Don't focus so much on fat burners. AMP or Ephedrine will help reduce appetite.

AMP is also excellent as a pre-workout stimulant.

Originally Posted by topolo

AMP is also excellent as a pre-workout stimulant.

Agreed! Ya damn right it is.

Originally Posted by Hlanderr

I've searched through so many fat burners, but is there any designed especially to retain muscle?

I know, a fat burner is designed to BURN FAT, not muscle. But it can hurt some gains. Is there something to look for (such as makign sure a certain chemical isn't there) in a fat burner to know more about it?

Any good recommendations on fat burners that do not effect your gains?

Good answers in here already.

Any stims that promotes adrenalin/noradrenalin release are anti-catabolic in that these hormones not only promote fat oxidisation, they also prevent/reduce protein breakdown in muscle tissue.

Originally Posted by topolo

AMP is also excellent as a pre-workout stimulant.

How ironic - i don't notice a thing from it.

Originally Posted by Robboe

How ironic - i don't notice a thing from it.

O'rly??? That is a bit strange, but it goes to show you, not every supplement works for every individual.

I share Steve's experience with EC and clenbuterol also - no acceleration in fat loss at all, but EC is great for appetite suppression and pre-workout stimulation.

I prefer basic cuts these days though - no crash period.

No fat loss from E/C or Clenbuterol for some of you? Do you guys have any beta receptors left?

Anyway, I still say that the best (and yes it is safe for any healthy person) base for fat loss is E/C stacked. It will also not be catabolic to muscle tissue. Of course, this "base" can be made much more effective with some add-ons...yohimbe, coleus, 7-keto, T2.

I believe all these stimulants put stress on the CNS, which makes it easier to overtrain on a cut. Just something to consider...