Thread: Holy Sh**.. RedLine

Originally Posted by topolo

We all will need one someday GP.......

As long as I don't have to sell it!!

Originally Posted by gopro

As long as I don't have to sell it!!

I understand completely.

Originally Posted by gopro

But you know what? At least Muscle Tech is sticking to their "roots" and still are trying to come out with hardcore products. VPX on the other hand is trying to come out with an anti-wrinkle cream. Yeah, that's an interesting thing for me to promote

LOL, hardcore products? what, GAKIC?

Anator p70.

Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio

LOL, hardcore products? what, GAKIC?

Why is GAKIC any less hardcore than alot of other bodybuilding products out there...test boosters, NO2 releasers, etc? GAKIC actually works well for some people and is meant to improve performance in the gym. I consider that hardcore. LEUKIC is not a bad product either...nor is Hydroxycut Hardcore.

While people might not love MT's marketing practices, they at least make an effort to put out decent products and hire top bodybuulders as spokespeople.

In relation to what VPX is now, they are 100% hardcore!

There is actually two studies showing benefit to Gakic, which is worth at least something. Leukic sounds more like a marketing product to be stacked with Gakic as i'm not aware of any research using it.

Originally Posted by Robboe

There is actually two studies showing benefit to Gakic, which is worth at least something.

have a link or can you post them?

Originally Posted by gopro

In relation to what VPX is now, they are 100% hardcore!

still not seeing how VPX is different, they produce all of the same supps that you classify as "hard core".

Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2004 Apr;36(4):583-7.

Glycine-arginine-alpha-ketoisocaproic acid improves performance of repeated cycling sprints.

Buford BN, Koch AJ.

Health and Exercise Sciences, Truman State University, Kirksville, MO 63501, USA.

PURPOSE: The purpose of this study was to determine the effect of glycine-arginine-alpha-ketoisocaproic acid (GAKIC) supplementation on repeated bouts of anaerobic cycling performance. METHODS: Ten men completed a randomized, double-blinded, placebo-controlled exercise protocol of two sessions separated by 7 d. Plasma lactate was analyzed in blood collected 45 min before exercise (REST) and 5 min postexercise (POST). Subjects consumed either 11.2-g GAKIC or placebo (PLC) during a 45-min period between the REST and exercise. Mean power, peak power, and fatigue values were assessed from five supramaximal, 10-s cycle ergometer sprints, separated by 1-min rest intervals. Data were analyzed using repeated measures ANCOVA. RESULTS: A significant treatment x time interaction (P = 0.039) was observed for the change in mean power output over the five sprints between the GAKIC and PLC treatments. Post hoc analyses revealed a greater retention of mean power (P = 0.038) between sprints 1 and 2 after GAKIC (-1 +/- 9 W) versus PLC treatment (-47 +/- 18 W). No other performance variables differed between PLC and GAKIC. POST lactate was increased (P < 0.001) above REST, but there was no difference between treatments (P = 0.936). CONCLUSION: These data support an ergogenic effect of GAKIC for attenuating the decline in mean power during repeated bouts of supramaximal exercise.


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Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2000 Dec;32(12):2102-8.

High-intensity dynamic human muscle performance enhanced by a metabolic intervention.

Stevens BR, Godfrey MD, Kaminski TW, Braith RW.

Department of Physiology, College of Medicine, University of Florida, Gainesville 32610-0274, USA.

PURPOSE: The purpose of this study was to quantify the effects of a metabolic treatment on human muscle dynamic performance (strength, work, and fatigue) measured under conditions of acute, exhaustive high-intensity anaerobic isokinetic exercise. METHODS: Unilateral prefatigue and postfatigue peak torque and work values were measured in the quadriceps femoris of 13 subjects using a computer-controlled isokinetic dynamometer, over a 23-d interval. The two experimental treatments were: 1) a glycine and L-arginine salt of alpha-ketoisocaproic acid calcium ("GAKIC"); and 2) isocaloric sucrose (control). Based on a randomized double-blind cross-over repeated measures design, measurements were made before and during an exhaustive anaerobic fatigue protocol to calculate a Fatigue Resistance Index (FRI = [peri-exhaustion torque]\[baseline peak torque]), as well as total work. RESULTS: The FRI and total work for each of the exhaustion sets measured at 0, 5, and 15 min after oral GAKIC treatment were greater than values obtained for isocaloric control treatment (P < 0.02). GAKIC treatment increased the mean resistance to fatigue (FRI) up to 28% over isocaloric control. Overall gain in total muscle work attributable to GAKIC was 10.5 +/- 0.8% greater than control, sustained for at least 15 min. After 24 h, both GAKIC and control concentric forces returned to the same absolute values (P > 0.05): mean FRI = 0.42 +/- 0.05 and mean total work = 4600 +/- 280 J. There were no significant differences attributable to random order of testing. CONCLUSIONS: Compared with isocaloric carbohydrate, oral GAKIC treatment increased muscle torque and work sustained during intense acute anaerobic dynamic exercise; additionally, it increased overall muscle performance by delaying muscle fatigue during the early phases of anaerobic dynamic exercise.

Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio

still not seeing how VPX is different, they produce all of the same supps that you classify as "hard core".

You are missing my point...I know the direction they WANT to go in in the future and also how far they are pulling away from the hardcore bodybuilding market.

VPX used to be at EVERY major bodybuilding show in full force, but every year they are scaling back how many shows they are a part of.

I also want to be part of a company that is continually looking to innovate and produce NEW bodybuilding supplements.

Yes they still have NO2 and glutamine, but they are not going to go any further than that anymore.

While I was still there, I formulated a kick-ass testosterone booster for them...I pushed and pushed for them to come out with it, and it never happened. Why? Because the owner is truly disinterested in bodybuilding. The market he is interested in now is Walmart.

I see, sounds like what EAS did.

EAS went the direction in which they could make the most money, which is drinks/bars and being in every supermarket and drug store, basically catering to the general public.

Originally Posted by Robert DiMaggio

I see, sounds like what EAS did.

EAS went the direction in which they could make the most money, which is drinks/bars and being in every supermarket and drug store, basically catering to the general public.

Correct! And that is when I must walk away...no matter what they pay me, if I am bored, I am not happy...