Thread: ruin the cee?

Originally Posted by dontsurfonmytur

Would a preworkout supp like vault or no-xplode ruin the effects of my Bulk Cee before workout?
and does the Bulk CEE mix well with anything? like a whey shake?

No.

Yes, you can mix CEE with whey protein, or you can also mix with crystal light to help mask the taste.

Is there a chance that your CEE smells odd, like dead fish??

Reason I ask is, I've had one bad batch. Now the current Kg batch I have, is about 3 months old. I took it out just now and gave it a whiff, just to make sure. Smells faintly like chemical, which is what you should smell.

One time, I had an off yellowish batch, and it smelt bad, ammonical or mildly like fish will smell when its not fresh. I sent that batch back, because I know my chemistry and suspected it had degraded, probably in hot storage.

Should be the case, that you can take CEE in water, and not notice much taste. You should NOT be loading up on more than few grams a time. I usually throw in a little taurine and magnesium citrate - and the taste is mildly lemon like. Nothing that would make you gag.

I do not recommend you take your creatine with whey protein. Reason is that the protein may block absorption in the gut..and, the combination of some wheys that are insulinogenic (insulin release promoting) and creatine, which can be mildly irritating to gut can lead to...ahh, gut unpleasantness, at a time when you're not interested in spending valuble time in the bathroom attending to pressing matters. Such actions can leave you feeling wrung out and weak. Definitely counterproductive.

Originally Posted by Trouble

Is there a chance that your CEE smells odd, like dead fish??

Reason I ask is, I've had one bad batch. Now the current Kg batch I have, is about 3 months old. I took it out just now and gave it a whiff, just to make sure. Smells faintly like chemical, which is what you should smell.

One time, I had an off yellowish batch, and it smelt bad, ammonical or mildly like fish will smell when its not fresh. I sent that batch back, because I know my chemistry and suspected it had degraded, probably in hot storage.

Should be the case, that you can take CEE in water, and not notice much taste. You should NOT be loading up on more than few grams a time. I usually throw in a little taurine and magnesium citrate - and the taste is mildly lemon like. Nothing that would make you gag.

I do not recommend you take your creatine with whey protein. Reason is that the protein may block absorption in the gut..and, the combination of some wheys that are insulinogenic (insulin release promoting) and creatine, which can be mildly irritating to gut can lead to...ahh, gut unpleasantness, at a time when you're not interested in spending valuble time in the bathroom attending to pressing matters. Such actions can leave you feeling wrung out and weak. Definitely counterproductive.

Please explain your theory on whey protein blocking absorption and it being insulinogenic.

Last time I looked, this wasn't Avant Labs forum, but Ok, lets do the numbers.

Creatine ethyl ester hydrochloride is a mildly hydrophobic derivative of creatine monohydrate hydrochloride, purported to be taken up across intestinal mucosa more efficiently than CM. As the microbial community biofilm biopolymers of intestinal muscosal villi present a mildly hydrophobic environment, the claim of enhanced absorptivity by the ethyl ester may be true. Moreover, a recent preliminary study conducted in 2004 suggests that certain dehydration processes used in commercial production of monocrystalline creatine may result in dimerization and reduced instestinal uptake and membrane transport.

Whey is a variable fraction byproduct of dairy (cheese) production; its fractional constituency is known to vary considerably with the raw material and methods of processing, namely hydrolysis and peptide separation. Some milk protein fractions contain lactose sugars. Milk proteins are also mildly hydrophobic and therefore, some protein-creatine physical absorption may occur if they are ingested together.

The creatine ethyl ester HCl that I have purchased and used has always recommended it be taken with water.

Oh yeah, BTW, ask Twin Peaks if I have the professional credentials to know my shit, microbial ecology and biochemistry-wise.

Originally Posted by Trouble

Last time I looked, this wasn't Avant Labs forum, but Ok, lets do the numbers.

Creatine ethyl ester hydrochloride is a mildly hydrophobic derivative of creatine monohydrate hydrochloride, purported to be taken up across intestinal mucosa more efficiently than CM. As the microbial community biofilm biopolymers of intestinal muscosal villi present a mildly hydrophobic environment, the claim of enhanced absorptivity by the ethyl ester may be true. Moreover, a recent preliminary study conducted in 2004 suggests that certain dehydration processes used in commercial production of monocrystalline creatine may result in dimerization and reduced instestinal uptake and membrane transport.

Whey is a variable fraction byproduct of dairy (cheese) production; its fractional constituency is known to vary considerably with the raw material and methods of processing, namely hydrolysis and peptide separation. Some milk protein fractions contain lactose sugars. Milk proteins are also mildly hydrophobic and therefore, some protein-creatine physical absorption may occur if they are ingested together.

The creatine ethyl ester HCl that I have purchased and used has always recommended it be taken with water.

Oh yeah, BTW, ask Twin Peaks if I have the professional credentials to know my shit, microbial ecology and biochemistry-wise.

Trust me, I don't know a single person online that would argue with you or your credibility.

so what should i do then...take my CEE first than RIGHT AFTER take my whey shake? (talking about post workout)

Originally Posted by 40-yard dash_2

No.

Yes, you can mix CEE with whey protein, or you can also mix with crystal light to help mask the taste.

what he said

yes beerman, but the other guy said to not to take it with whey?!

The point is to load your cells with CEE gradually. I sip my drink water containing CEE for a couple of hours (several drinks, small doses in 20 oz of water) before a workout. I take a break of about 45 min after consuming a whey shake, using just water with a little electrolytes for hydration, before again consuming a small dose in my workout drink water, with BCAAs.

Note: There are no studies that show definitely that taking CEE with whey will block uptake. My recommendation is based on my experience and training, alongside the standard recommendation on how to dose with CEE.

There is no reason that you can't give mixing the two a try, see how you respond. Forty-Yard-Dash's company is a supplement manufacturer, and it may well be that they will challenge the mentality of NOT taking creatine with whey.

Perhaps there is an absorption or action synergy in taking them together.

Note that the binding of creatine to whey depends on fractional composition and fractional hydrophobicity. And that insulin induction from whey requires the presence of either milk sugars or milk proteins that enriched in glucogenic amino acid or other insulin-inducing factors.

In other words, try your CEE with whey if you have difficulty with timing your dosing or wish to hide the taste of CEE - if you have no problems, and your CEE continues to produce the volumization results desired, then use them combined. There is no one right answer, because whey formulas can and do vary.

Interesting discussion. While the theory makes sense, I certainly have seen or experienced issues with mixing the two. This issue does require further thought, however.

Anywho, Trouble -- one thing I disagree with you on is the taste of true CEE -- its f-ing nasty. Very bitter/sour. It should mix easily and instantly with water (unlike mono) but the taste is horrid. Its one of the best things about XCEED -- how well we have masked the taste.

Everything else, I pretty much agree with.

(Note -- we do not sell any CEE + whey products, nor do we necessarily recommend them either).

any1 tried mri ce2?

i bet XCEED is awesome but look at the price, u get 100g of CEE for 7$, nothing will beat that, and im sure the horrible taste (havent had it yet) is worth it.

CEE tastes bad??

Rhodiola - that tastes bad. HMB - that IS bitter.

By comparison, CEE is quite pleasant, definitely not something that requires masking.

XCEED: Creatine ethyl ester HCl, Diarginine malate, L-taurine, glucuronolactone.

Taurine - check, highly imporant to liver and brain chemistry
CEE - check (may or may not require insulin for uptake), volumizer and energy
Arginine malate......insulin promotor, TCA cycle intermediate/energy
Glucuronolactone (undergoes equilibirum with glucuronic acid) - important insulin sensitizer, promotes cAMP production, and even more importantly, promotes ribose synthesis, one of the rate limiting steps in insulin sensitivity.

A well-thought out product. Would NOT take with whey. Would recommend it in place of plain jane CEE, if you can afford it.

If you have insulin sensitivity issues, I would say this is a compelling product.

Xceed does taste good and it mixes well.

Originally Posted by Trouble

CEE tastes bad??

Rhodiola - that tastes bad. HMB - that IS bitter.

By comparison, CEE is quite pleasant, definitely not something that requires masking.

XCEED: Creatine ethyl ester HCl, Diarginine malate, L-taurine, glucuronolactone.

Taurine - check, highly imporant to liver and brain chemistry
CEE - check (may or may not require insulin for uptake), volumizer and energy
Arginine malate......insulin promotor, TCA cycle intermediate/energy
Glucuronolactone (undergoes equilibirum with glucuronic acid) - important insulin sensitizer, promotes cAMP production, and even more importantly, promotes ribose synthesis, one of the rate limiting steps in insulin sensitivity.

A well-thought out product. Would NOT take with whey. Would recommend it in place of plain jane CEE, if you can afford it.

If you have insulin sensitivity issues, I would say this is a compelling product.

While I agree that XCEED is not intended to take with whey, I'd still like to discuss the competitive uptake issue.

As to the taste, I wonder if you have ever had true CEE Sharon. Have you gotten yours from a good source. CEE is notorious for how badly it tastes. Or, you have an unusually high tolerance.

CEE is good stuff

for strength and recover purposes
Id say stack it with AEE.
you cant go wrong.

I just ran over to my bottle of CEE took a whiff right when I opened it. Oh boy, my nostrils got a sweet coating. Maybe they might now grow and be incredibly muscular or something...



Moderators comment: First fuckchop warning. Lack of informative content.

Personally, I like VPX CEX for a CEE that tastes good. Thermo Life Cre2 aint bad either.

I like to take my creatine in the morning and again before my workout and then I have a protein shake after the workout.

The taste is sour, but not horribly so. Source is Bulk Nutrition. I've had this batch for a while, it has not changed in flavor. In water, its a very mild acidic accent. I always mix my soluble supps, and frequently use it with taurine and magnesium citrate (the first is flavorless, the latter is also mildly sour, like the CEE). Now I happen to like sour flavors and have grown used to this taste; I would say its an accomodation effect. You get used to it. It helps not to load your drink water with 5 or more grams at a time.

can't you just take CEE in pill form?

powder form is cheaper

You guys should try Xceed. You'll be amazed at the taste, because it is very similar to lemonade. DS did an excellent job at masking the 3g of CEE + 3g of Di-Arginine Malate + 1g Taurine + 1g Glucuronolactone per serving.

Originally Posted by 40-yard dash_2

You guys should try Xceed. You'll be amazed at the taste, because it is very similar to lemonade. DS did an excellent job at masking the 3g of CEE + 3g of Di-Arginine Malate + 1g Taurine + 1g Glucuronolactone per serving.