creatine question

Nicky Carts · 02-01-2007, 07:06 PM

i took a break from working out so this is why i wanna know whether or not this is true...

a long while back i read that when you disolve the creatine in water you cant just leave it there for a while cause the creatine will die out or something unless you drink it down. sounds stupid but im just wonderin. lemme know. thnx

**Prince** · 02-02-2007, 10:59 AM

it will take days (or longer depending on the PH level of the liquid) for it to break down.

**nni** · 02-02-2007, 12:18 PM

i have read it could break down well within 30 minutes.

**Prince** · 02-02-2007, 02:05 PM

where did you read that? I actually have a reference that says it can take several weeks.

**nni** · 02-02-2007, 02:37 PM

almost everywhere. the only places i have read that it takes longer was in the effervescent creatine study and in krealk claims. ive read complete conversion can happen in as little as 43 seconds depending on how acidic the liquid is. very much conflicting info, so i basically drink it as quickly as possible (without chugging, i just dont let it sit around)

**Prince** · 02-02-2007, 02:59 PM

Myth # 2
Creatine Is 100% Converted Into Creatinine At Low pH In Minutes If Not Seconds!

Well in the last myth we have looked at the short-term or typical time a 5g dose of creatine would take to pass into the blood stream (<6 hours Persky et al. 2003 [2]. see figure 2). But what about at other pH levels not found in the gut but maybe in drinks of other fluid suspension for your creatine?

Well it's suggested by so called pH creatine stable specialists that in many of these delivery forms creatine is degraded 100% to creatinine across a whole selection of pH values in seconds?

Well again guys lets take a look at some real data and not just looking at minutes or hours or even day but what about months? Again, here is some further data from the Milan conference [3] also available from Patent data [4].

As you can see in figure 3 we have a description of creatine in a selection of pH fluids ranging from 3 - 7 (2g Cr.H20 in 100ml of 0.1M citrate phosphate buffer heated to 90oC for 30 minutes).

In figure 1 creatine was shown to be so stable its breakdown was accelerated in this next experiment by heating on day 0 then monitoring the subsequent breakdown of creatine in different pH's over time (see the effect of heating in figure 4).

Even with this extreme method you can clearly see after 120 days of suspension in a range of pH's levels creatine degradation is never 100% to creatinine.

In fact we see equilibrium develops (creatine /creatinine) with at worst a 70% loss of initial values at 35 days (yep not seconds or minutes).

Only a slight change in the citrate buffer content (to 0.2M) can actually cause creatine to increase at pH 5, 6, 7 further more at lower pH's as found in the gut (pH <3) maximum loss by day 100 is only in the order of only 40%.

Figure. 2 - Adapted from Persky et al. 2003 [2].

So what does that mean for you? Well practical application wise you could place 17g of creatine monohydrate in any pH fluid of between 3-7 and worse case scenario (gut pH 3.0) after 4 months of your creatine just sitting there you still would have enough creatine to maintain your muscle creatine stores following a loading phase (i.e. 5 grams worth).

Best-case scenario at a pH 7.0 solution (such as tap water) you will have 85% of the original creatine dose you placed in your drink at day 120. So anyone claiming a 100% breakdown of creatine in fluids, juices or similar liquids in minutes or seconds are pulling your chain, or more importantly your purse strings don't be fooled!

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/tallon8.htm

ABCs · 02-02-2007, 03:29 PM

Is it really that hard to just mix your creatine right before you drink it?

**Prince** · 02-02-2007, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABCs

Is it really that hard to just mix your creatine right before you drink it?

I take it in caps/tabs.

ABCs · 02-02-2007, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince

I take it in caps/tabs.

Haha, it wasn't really geared towards anyone, but if [you] mix your creatine right before drinking, this whoel thread wouldn't be much of an issue in the first place. None the less, it's still good information to know.

Nicky Carts · 02-05-2007, 11:46 AM

ABC's - its just a question. i never said that i was too lazy to drink it right after mixing. thnx for the wise comment tho.

to the others supplying valid input thnx alot (nni & prince)

ABCs · 02-05-2007, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABCs

Haha, it wasn't really geared towards anyone, but if [you] mix your creatine right before drinking, this whoel thread wouldn't be much of an issue in the first place. None the less, it's still good information to know.

Did I miss something?

ebrake74 · 02-05-2007, 05:11 PM

Kre-Alkalyn

02-01-2007, 07:06 PM	#1
Nicky Carts the epitome of a beast Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 48	creatine question BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com i took a break from working out so this is why i wanna know whether or not this is true... a long while back i read that when you disolve the creatine in water you cant just leave it there for a while cause the creatine will die out or something unless you drink it down. sounds stupid but im just wonderin. lemme know. thnx

02-02-2007, 10:59 AM	#2
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,295 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 313	it will take days (or longer depending on the PH level of the liquid) for it to break down.
	Support the Board Sponsors: SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips! CHECK OUT THIS NEW 6-PACK-ABS PROGRAM!

02-02-2007, 12:18 PM	#3
nni Designer Supplements Moderator Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,141 Blog Entries: 1	i have read it could break down well within 30 minutes.
	www.DesignerSupps.com Adrenalean now available.

02-02-2007, 02:05 PM	#4
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,295 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 313	where did you read that? I actually have a reference that says it can take several weeks.
	Support the Board Sponsors: SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips! CHECK OUT THIS NEW 6-PACK-ABS PROGRAM!

02-02-2007, 02:37 PM	#5
nni Designer Supplements Moderator Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,141 Blog Entries: 1	almost everywhere. the only places i have read that it takes longer was in the effervescent creatine study and in krealk claims. ive read complete conversion can happen in as little as 43 seconds depending on how acidic the liquid is. very much conflicting info, so i basically drink it as quickly as possible (without chugging, i just dont let it sit around)
	www.DesignerSupps.com Adrenalean now available.

02-02-2007, 02:59 PM	#6
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,295 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 313	Myth # 2 Creatine Is 100% Converted Into Creatinine At Low pH In Minutes If Not Seconds! Well in the last myth we have looked at the short-term or typical time a 5g dose of creatine would take to pass into the blood stream (<6 hours Persky et al. 2003 [2]. see figure 2). But what about at other pH levels not found in the gut but maybe in drinks of other fluid suspension for your creatine? Well it's suggested by so called pH creatine stable specialists that in many of these delivery forms creatine is degraded 100% to creatinine across a whole selection of pH values in seconds? Well again guys lets take a look at some real data and not just looking at minutes or hours or even day but what about months? Again, here is some further data from the Milan conference [3] also available from Patent data [4]. As you can see in figure 3 we have a description of creatine in a selection of pH fluids ranging from 3 - 7 (2g Cr.H20 in 100ml of 0.1M citrate phosphate buffer heated to 90oC for 30 minutes). In figure 1 creatine was shown to be so stable its breakdown was accelerated in this next experiment by heating on day 0 then monitoring the subsequent breakdown of creatine in different pH's over time (see the effect of heating in figure 4). Even with this extreme method you can clearly see after 120 days of suspension in a range of pH's levels creatine degradation is never 100% to creatinine. In fact we see equilibrium develops (creatine /creatinine) with at worst a 70% loss of initial values at 35 days (yep not seconds or minutes). Only a slight change in the citrate buffer content (to 0.2M) can actually cause creatine to increase at pH 5, 6, 7 further more at lower pH's as found in the gut (pH <3) maximum loss by day 100 is only in the order of only 40%. Figure. 2 - Adapted from Persky et al. 2003 [2]. So what does that mean for you? Well practical application wise you could place 17g of creatine monohydrate in any pH fluid of between 3-7 and worse case scenario (gut pH 3.0) after 4 months of your creatine just sitting there you still would have enough creatine to maintain your muscle creatine stores following a loading phase (i.e. 5 grams worth). Best-case scenario at a pH 7.0 solution (such as tap water) you will have 85% of the original creatine dose you placed in your drink at day 120. So anyone claiming a 100% breakdown of creatine in fluids, juices or similar liquids in minutes or seconds are pulling your chain, or more importantly your purse strings don't be fooled! http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/tallon8.htm
	Support the Board Sponsors: SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips! CHECK OUT THIS NEW 6-PACK-ABS PROGRAM!

02-02-2007, 03:29 PM	#7
ABCs Audios Envy Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: My Mind Posts: 1,155	Is it really that hard to just mix your creatine right before you drink it?
	After almost 2 weeks... I am back and better than ever.

02-05-2007, 11:46 AM	#10
Nicky Carts the epitome of a beast Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 48	ABC's - its just a question. i never said that i was too lazy to drink it right after mixing. thnx for the wise comment tho. to the others supplying valid input thnx alot (nni & prince)

02-05-2007, 05:11 PM	#12
ebrake74 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 108	Kre-Alkalyn
ebrake74 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 108

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