Taking Havoc by RPN... PCT HELP?

bones33 · 05-01-2008, 08:52 PM

I will be taking Havoc for a 4 week cycle.. after it says you dont NEED a PCT, but I was thinking of running 6-oxo afterwards... Should this be sufficiant?

bones33 · 05-02-2008, 01:16 PM

someone please?

Amino89 · 05-02-2008, 02:27 PM

Age?
PH, AAS history?
Years training?
Is your diet and training regimen solid?

Bradicallyman · 05-02-2008, 03:47 PM

I dont know where you got that you don't need PCT because you do. I have read that Havoc does not convert to estrogen but you still need to jump start your natural production of testosterone. Take a serm!

BigDyl · 05-02-2008, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bones33

I will be taking Havoc for a 4 week cycle.. after it says you dont NEED a PCT, but I was thinking of running 6-oxo afterwards... Should this be sufficiant?

You need PCT badly. You need to run a SERM, an AI is optional but recommended.

Start out at 10-20 mg's a day for the first few days to access your tolerance. Slowly up the dose based on bodyweight. I personally know the guy who designed havoc, and he says 50 mg is the sweet spot if you can handle it.

It will make you lose alot of hair if you are proned, so use revita shampoo and at least 2-3 mg's of finasteride a day. It will thin your hair quick if you are susceptible.

workingatit43 · 05-02-2008, 05:21 PM

If you are old enough which I hope you are you need to have a pct and you need to run support supps. You can look into Cycle Support or Life Support and pre-load it for 1-2 week and continue throughout the cycle. For pct I would have a SERM on hand you may not need it but it is very good to have if a problem comes up.

For pct you can run Stoked or Post Cycle Support and I would have a cortisol product which I would start on day 15 of pct. If you also want to run a AI you can run towards the end of pct and taper it down. Best of luck and if you need any help let me know

bones33 · 05-03-2008, 12:32 AM

21, male.. 165lbs.. Eating about 2,700 cals a day... First time ever taking a PH

bones33 · 05-03-2008, 12:33 AM

Also guys is those 2 supplements he recommended for PCT decent?

Bradicallyman · 05-03-2008, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bones33

Also guys is those 2 supplements he recommended for PCT decent?

He recommended Post cycle support and stoked which I do not know much of. But he also recommended a serm which is an absolute must when taking a PH. When I took havoc, I used cycle support, taurine, and potassium during the cycle, and nolva for PCT

bones33 · 05-03-2008, 01:41 PM

Ok, Did you get decent results? Any hair loss? From what i've heard people who experience the hairloss are usually genetically predetermined for hairloss so it speeds it up...

workingatit43 · 05-03-2008, 03:05 PM

Yes I lost some hair in the 4th week at 40mg but I am prone to MPB anyways

Amino89 · 05-03-2008, 11:07 PM

PCT for Havoc
-SERM
-Post Cycle Support (will help retain libido and aid in regulation of endogenous hormones)

OTC PCT
-Post Cycle Support
-I3C
-SAMe
-6-oxo tapered down
-SERM on hand in case of sides

alwhoowns · 05-04-2008, 08:26 PM

hey im 18 years old and 135 pounds of lean muscle (ran track for 5 years) im also gonna start taking havoc soon. the only PCT i plan on taking is gonna be a SERM anyone know of an over the counter one i can take

Amino89 · 05-04-2008, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alwhoowns

hey im 18 years old and 135 pounds of lean muscle (ran track for 5 years) im also gonna start taking havoc soon. the only PCT i plan on taking is gonna be a SERM anyone know of an over the counter one i can take

I hope your joking, do NOT take ANY hormonal products at 18 it can cause irreversible damage to the endocrine system. You have plenty of time to get big, and have no way reached your potential. Look into creatine, multivitamin, fish oil, and protein alongside a good diet and training regimen.

workingatit43 · 05-05-2008, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alwhoowns

hey im 18 years old and 135 pounds of lean muscle (ran track for 5 years) im also gonna start taking havoc soon. the only PCT i plan on taking is gonna be a SERM anyone know of an over the counter one i can take

Yes you are to young you going to mess yourself up please do not touch the steriods yet

alwhoowns · 05-05-2008, 12:20 PM

ok well i stopped growing a long time ago. i have been taking creatine and 5 scoops of whey protein a day for 6 months and have only gained 7 pounds of muscle mass. im gonna take it anyways. someone recommended Epistane does it work

Amino89 · 05-05-2008, 05:06 PM

Just because your epiphyseal discs have closed does not mean you are done growing. Your endocrine system (hormone making system) is continually maturing until mid 20's. I don't think you should mess with your hormones at this age if you cannot gain any more muscle it is due to your training and diet regimen. You have not reached your genetic potential at 135lbs you need to concentrate on perfecting your diet and training rather than relying on exogenous hormones for gains. I doubt you will find anyone that will help an 18 year old with a cycle.

workingatit43 · 05-05-2008, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amino89

Just because your epiphyseal discs have closed does not mean you are done growing. Your endocrine system (hormone making system) is continually maturing until mid 20's. I don't think you should mess with your hormones at this age if you cannot gain any more muscle it is due to your training and diet regimen. You have not reached your genetic potential at 135lbs you need to concentrate on perfecting your diet and training rather than relying on exogenous hormones for gains. I doubt you will find anyone that will help an 18 year old with a cycle.

This is the best advice you are going to get please take note of it for safety sakes

alwhoowns · 05-05-2008, 07:36 PM

ok well can you help me with my diet then. i eat oatmeal with 2 scoops of whey protein in it in the morning. except for a 20gram power bar for lunch i dont eat lunch cause they serve horrible shit at my school. and for dinner i usuall have 1 to 2 pounds of grilled chicken, and some mashed potatoes or something close with 4 scoops of whey protein. i also take creatine 2 hours before i work out. as for workout regimen my brother is a personal trainer who designed a lifting regimen for me.

Bradicallyman · 05-05-2008, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alwhoowns

ok well can you help me with my diet then. i eat oatmeal with 2 scoops of whey protein in it in the morning. except for a 20gram power bar for lunch i dont eat lunch cause they serve horrible shit at my school. and for dinner i usuall have 1 to 2 pounds of grilled chicken, and some mashed potatoes or something close with 4 scoops of whey protein. i also take creatine 2 hours before i work out. as for workout regimen my brother is a personal trainer who designed a lifting regimen for me.

Your diet is horrible. If the lunch at your school is bad, bring something with you. You need some veggies, healthy fats and a few different sources of protein. 6 scoops of whey a day seems a bit much, especially when you are not getting very much from real food. Try tuna, chicken breast, lean meat, beef, or turkey. You seem to want to gain mass, correct me if I am wrong. In order for you to gain mass, you must consume more than your body burns off. You are probably getting 1000 calories at the most with that diet. That is the reason your have plateaued. Educate yourself and grow naturally before considering hormones.

Amino89 · 05-05-2008, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bradicallyman

Your diet is horrible. If the lunch at your school is bad, bring something with you. You need some veggies, healthy fats and a few different sources of protein. 6 scoops of whey a day seems a bit much, especially when you are not getting very much from real food. Try tuna, chicken breast, lean meat, beef, or turkey. You seem to want to gain mass, correct me if I am wrong. In order for you to gain mass, you must consume more than your body burns off. You are probably getting 1000 calories at the most with that diet. That is the reason your have plateaued

x2....Try and get your nutrition from nutrient dense whole foods. Shakes are more for convenience like at work or school and post-workout due to the fast absorption. I'd try incorporating the following in your diet, and researching the basics of nutrition.

Healthy fats: Natural peanut butter/almond butter/cashew butter, nuts, EVOO, flax oil, fish oil, avocado, etc.

Lean meats: lean sirloin, steak, eggs, egg whites, fish, chicken, turkey.

Complex carbohydates: yams, sweet potatoes, oats, veggies, whole grain pastas and breads, etc.

irontaylor · 08-04-2008, 09:43 AM

hey guys i understand what your telling that 18 year old. hes only 135 lbs he has so much room to grow. Im also 18 and weigh 180lbs and im only 5'7. im solid muscle got my six pack no fat. bench about 300lbs. At the point im at i'm considering havoc to help me continue to grow. I know im still 18 but i know how to take this and plan to only wokr my way up to 30mg and back down on a 4 week cycle. I dont think this will cause any damage. any thoughts?

-taylor (not a know it all teenager, i want feedback)

SnowManSnow · 08-04-2008, 09:50 AM

dont juice at 18. i can't imagine a scenerio that i would say otherwise.

if it sees like you've quit growing muscle then you need to change up your training some, and eat more.

don't forget you need lots of calories, and fats along with protein to make it all work.

b

irontaylor · 08-04-2008, 10:07 AM

i know all that. but what more is my body gonna know at 21 than 18? how is 21 the magic number?

**nni** · 08-04-2008, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irontaylor

i know all that. but what more is my body gonna know at 21 than 18? how is 21 the magic number?

23 is more appropriate, less chance of developmental issues.

zombul · 08-04-2008, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nni

23 is more appropriate, less chance of developmental issues.

Agreed the body should be done with it's natural growth spirts before utilizing a ph.

workingatit43 · 08-04-2008, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nni

23 is more appropriate, less chance of developmental issues.

Can't agree more I would wait till 23 yrs old. Bro you can screw up you endo system juicing that early it is not worth it.

tomuchgear · 08-05-2008, 08:06 AM

magic number is simply your body starts to function diffrently. at 18 you are still jacked with natural test levels. why risk suppressing that and screwing it up. if you want a better protien take lba's. a hell of alot better than whey.

05-01-2008, 08:52 PM	#1
bones33 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 160	Taking Havoc by RPN... PCT HELP? I will be taking Havoc for a 4 week cycle.. after it says you dont NEED a PCT, but I was thinking of running 6-oxo afterwards... Should this be sufficiant?
bones33 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 160

05-02-2008, 01:16 PM	#2
bones33 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 160	someone please?
bones33 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 160

05-02-2008, 02:27 PM	#3
Amino89 Anabolic Innovations/HCFs Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 336	Age? PH, AAS history? Years training? Is your diet and training regimen solid?
	Anabolic Innovations/ HCF's Representative

05-02-2008, 05:21 PM	#6
workingatit43 AI/Sbmuscle Rep Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Ma Posts: 1,337	If you are old enough which I hope you are you need to have a pct and you need to run support supps. You can look into Cycle Support or Life Support and pre-load it for 1-2 week and continue throughout the cycle. For pct I would have a SERM on hand you may not need it but it is very good to have if a problem comes up. For pct you can run Stoked or Post Cycle Support and I would have a cortisol product which I would start on day 15 of pct. If you also want to run a AI you can run towards the end of pct and taper it down. Best of luck and if you need any help let me know
	Anabolic Innovations Representative Sbmuscle.com Representative My opinons, views, and suggestions are that of my own and do not represent SBMuscle.com. Anabolic Innovation at SB Muscle Sbmuscle.com

05-03-2008, 12:32 AM	#7
bones33 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 160	21, male.. 165lbs.. Eating about 2,700 cals a day... First time ever taking a PH
bones33 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 160

05-02-2008, 03:47 PM	#4
Bradicallyman Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Washington Posts: 131 Photos: 10	I dont know where you got that you don't need PCT because you do. I have read that Havoc does not convert to estrogen but you still need to jump start your natural production of testosterone. Take a serm!

05-03-2008, 12:33 AM	#8
bones33 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 160	Also guys is those 2 supplements he recommended for PCT decent?
bones33 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 160

05-03-2008, 01:41 PM	#10
bones33 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 160	Ok, Did you get decent results? Any hair loss? From what i've heard people who experience the hairloss are usually genetically predetermined for hairloss so it speeds it up...
bones33 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 160

05-03-2008, 03:05 PM	#11
workingatit43 AI/Sbmuscle Rep Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Ma Posts: 1,337	Yes I lost some hair in the 4th week at 40mg but I am prone to MPB anyways
	Anabolic Innovations Representative Sbmuscle.com Representative My opinons, views, and suggestions are that of my own and do not represent SBMuscle.com. Anabolic Innovation at SB Muscle Sbmuscle.com

05-03-2008, 11:07 PM	#12
Amino89 Anabolic Innovations/HCFs Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 336	PCT for Havoc -SERM -Post Cycle Support (will help retain libido and aid in regulation of endogenous hormones) OTC PCT -Post Cycle Support -I3C -SAMe -6-oxo tapered down -SERM on hand in case of sides
	Anabolic Innovations/ HCF's Representative

05-04-2008, 08:26 PM	#13
alwhoowns alex Join Date: May 2008 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 3	hey im 18 years old and 135 pounds of lean muscle (ran track for 5 years) im also gonna start taking havoc soon. the only PCT i plan on taking is gonna be a SERM anyone know of an over the counter one i can take

05-05-2008, 12:20 PM	#16
alwhoowns alex Join Date: May 2008 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 3	ok well i stopped growing a long time ago. i have been taking creatine and 5 scoops of whey protein a day for 6 months and have only gained 7 pounds of muscle mass. im gonna take it anyways. someone recommended Epistane does it work

05-05-2008, 05:06 PM	#17
Amino89 Anabolic Innovations/HCFs Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 336	Just because your epiphyseal discs have closed does not mean you are done growing. Your endocrine system (hormone making system) is continually maturing until mid 20's. I don't think you should mess with your hormones at this age if you cannot gain any more muscle it is due to your training and diet regimen. You have not reached your genetic potential at 135lbs you need to concentrate on perfecting your diet and training rather than relying on exogenous hormones for gains. I doubt you will find anyone that will help an 18 year old with a cycle.
	Anabolic Innovations/ HCF's Representative

05-05-2008, 07:36 PM	#19
alwhoowns alex Join Date: May 2008 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 3	ok well can you help me with my diet then. i eat oatmeal with 2 scoops of whey protein in it in the morning. except for a 20gram power bar for lunch i dont eat lunch cause they serve horrible shit at my school. and for dinner i usuall have 1 to 2 pounds of grilled chicken, and some mashed potatoes or something close with 4 scoops of whey protein. i also take creatine 2 hours before i work out. as for workout regimen my brother is a personal trainer who designed a lifting regimen for me.

08-04-2008, 09:43 AM	#22
irontaylor Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: US Posts: 4	hey guys i understand what your telling that 18 year old. hes only 135 lbs he has so much room to grow. Im also 18 and weigh 180lbs and im only 5'7. im solid muscle got my six pack no fat. bench about 300lbs. At the point im at i'm considering havoc to help me continue to grow. I know im still 18 but i know how to take this and plan to only wokr my way up to 30mg and back down on a 4 week cycle. I dont think this will cause any damage. any thoughts? -taylor (not a know it all teenager, i want feedback)

08-04-2008, 09:50 AM	#23
SnowManSnow Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 72	dont juice at 18. i can't imagine a scenerio that i would say otherwise. if it sees like you've quit growing muscle then you need to change up your training some, and eat more. don't forget you need lots of calories, and fats along with protein to make it all work. b

08-04-2008, 10:07 AM	#24
irontaylor Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: US Posts: 4	i know all that. but what more is my body gonna know at 21 than 18? how is 21 the magic number?

08-05-2008, 08:06 AM	#28
tomuchgear bout to get into the game Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: ohio Posts: 1,571 Photos: 2	magic number is simply your body starts to function diffrently. at 18 you are still jacked with natural test levels. why risk suppressing that and screwing it up. if you want a better protien take lba's. a hell of alot better than whey.