Thread: To load or not to load? (Creatine)

it's not neccessary the end result will be the same as far as it's effectiveness on your training...

that's what the latest performance studies say, so that's what I go by.

Loading is not needed. It is an american way though. In America every one wants results now and loading creatine makes people think they have done that . I felt I gain more muscle when I dont load also i have more cellar water retition and less regular water retition. (Sorry about spelling errors)

That study used 9 people in each of 4 different groups

Group A took 5 grams of creatine per day for 5 days and stopped!

Group B took 5 grams of creatine 3 times a day for 5 days and then 3 grams a day for the rest of a month

Group C took 3 grams a day for a month w/no load

and Group D took no creatine

Because muscle biopsies at the end of the month showed the same level of creatine in groups B and C (load and no load) They concluded that loading was not necessary!

What a crock!

Load and get RESULTS SOONER and FASTER, and be way ahead of those at the end of the month who didn't load!


DP

I find when I do load I get major swelling and pain in the glands around my throat.

I do take more than most though.....at the moment I take 5g on off days and 10g on training days and feel MUCH better than when I`ve loaded.

I agree with DP, but with qualifications.

1) I would load if you've never had creatine before or if it has been more than a year since you last took creatine.

2) I would not load if you've been on creatine (and have previously loaded) any during the past year.

I've had discussions with several physicians/surgeons at Johns Hopkins about this subject and from my own experience. I took about 8 monthes where I took no creatine, after being on creatine for 3 years straight. After those 8 monthes, I began taking creatine again, without a load, and regained significant strength and cellular volume rapidly (2 weeks).

Just my 2 cents.....

Here's a study that supports loading...you can find differing viewpoints everywhere.


http://www.wsu.edu/athletics/strength/crload.htm

Originally posted by Captain
I agree with DP, but with qualifications.

1) I would load if you've never had creatine before or if it has been more than a year since you last took creatine.

2) I would not load if you've been on creatine (and have previously loaded) any during the past year.

I've had discussions with several physicians/surgeons at Johns Hopkins about this subject and from my own experience. I took about 8 monthes where I took no creatine, after being on creatine for 3 years straight. After those 8 monthes, I began taking creatine again, without a load, and regained significant strength and cellular volume rapidly (2 weeks).

Just my 2 cents.....

Very sound advice Captain!

There is also the concept of "Reloading" as presented by Bill Phillips (former owner of EAS) years ago. Of course one could argue that this was to sell more creatine, but having sold TONS of creatine every year...I can tell you it works!

Bill's contention is that rather than cycling creatine....6-8 weeks on, at least 1/2 the time off....one would "RELOAD"....that is after 6-8 weeks go back to the "loading schedule" for 3 days instead of 5-6! He mentioned that this "up-regulates" creatine receptors at the site of the muscle. We have also seen this technique effective for brief unintentional interruptions in creatine usage!

Originally posted by kuso
I find when I do load I get major swelling and pain in the glands around my throat.

I do take more than most though.....at the moment I take 5g on off days and 10g on training days and feel MUCH better than when I`ve loaded.

Kuso, I hate to say this, with you living in Japan and all, but DON'T use Asian grades of Creatine! It's the dihydrotriazine, dicyannamide and creatinine residue that are causing your problems! Look for German grades...Creapure from SKW Labs or Pfanstihl (PF logo...German raw materials, American made)


DP

Originally posted by Dr. Pain


Kuso, I hate to say this, with you living in Japan and all, but DON'T use Asian grades of Creatine! It's the dihydrotiazine, dicyannamide and creatinine residue that are causing your problems! Look for German grades...Creapure from SKW Labs or Pfanstihl (PF logo...German raw materials, American made)


DP

DP...no worries there buddy.......It`s much cheaper for me to buy online from the states than it is to buy some crap here.

I have found I can get up to around 15g without a problem.....1g over and I have a LOT of discomfort.

DP...what results, maximizing cellular hydration ?

the main reason why any serious weight trainer should supplement with creatine is it's effect on ATP production and storage. the long term results will be the same whether creatine is loaded or not. it's the training that goes along with the supplmentation that makes the real difference...

LAM, think in terms of Periodization! If you have a training goal, say a mass or strength cycle of say 6 weeks.....would you want to load and accelerate the the results... or not load and possibly dimniish your results by a week or two?


The reason I use this example is that BBs and strength athletes can usually only "go hard" for a period of time. Creatine effects contractile capablity via enhanced ATP, such would be wasted during an "easy" period or time off.

Additoinally "cell volumization" creates a hydrostatic pumping action in the muscle....this would also be wasted if not used to it's full potential!

People are misled thinking creatine builds LBM, rather it allows for a greater stress/adaptation response....which with correct nutrition yields significant gains! So plan ahead.......LOAD with the intention of hitting it hard by the fourth or fifth day....and your mass/strenght/progess will be gr8er than the Non-Loaders at any point in time going forward...all other criteria constant!

DP


DP

ah..I see !

Thanks for the solid advice guys! It's very much appreciated.

I've been off creatine for a while now and I do have some goals I'd love to hit so I'm going to go ahead with the loading. And I've never heard of that reloading idea DP, sounds interesting. You ever try it?

Yes, Reloading works! I have used the technique many times.....and so have hundreds of my customers/clients.


DP

Here's another creatine question I've seen debated - do you take it every day or only on days you lift? I've seen both answers. Dr. Pain?

Originally posted by nikegurl
Here's another creatine question I've seen debated - do you take it every day or only on days you lift? I've seen both answers. Dr. Pain?

NG, think of your "creatine stores" as a "power reservoir".....you always want your 'Tank Topped!"

So every day!


DP

makes sense....do you think the FSI effervescent creatine is any good or just marketing bullsheeeeiiit?

i have no bloat or stomach problems with it but it's the only creatine i've ever tried and sometimes i wonder if i might be better off with the monohydrate. have you heard anything about whether it's less effective?

and yes, nothing like having the tank topped!

They (FSI) held the patent rights for the effervescent technology and sued almost every other company on the market that had a similar product! Now most companies are licenced through them! I Iike GEN better, but either will do! One drawback for you is the 14-15 grams of sugars in the product!

It is literally creatine monohydrate with an alka-seltzer, changing the ph of the stomach and causing the creatine to "dump faster" thereby yielding "quicker absorbtion!"


DP

the Creatine Clear doesn't have sugar in it. it claims to be using a sodium transport system instead of sugar.

i have plenty left - not sure if i should stick with it or go with the regular monohydrate. they claim it has faster/better absorbtion without the insulin spike. but i have no idea if it's true.

thanks!

Just curious, can someone please explain what is meant by loading? I train on a normal diet...have never used supplements?


Thx.

Loading being taking 20-25g per day as an example, for 5 days or a full week. Then going to 5-10g per day maintenance.

20-25g!!!!! Holy shit! Here I was thinking the 10g I was taking was high.

Okay, so to cut to the chase, if I am going to load, how much should I be taking, as a new Creatine user? I currently weigh 230lbs.

Mudge was right on.. that's standard loading.

20-25g per day, spread out in 5g dosages throughout your day for 5 days.

And then switch to 5 to 10 for 3-4 weeks.

Once those 3-4 weeks are up, it's debatable whether it's best to cycle off or just keep going.

I used to just take 5g a day or so, but after my 1 month break I have decided to try the loading hype. I have been taking 20-22g per day for the last four days and have had a few headaches and some problems with my stomache... bummer

Originally posted by Corri
I've heard there's a debate as to whether or not it's really necessary.. so do you? or don't you? And why?

Thanks for the input

I say load. Results come quicker, and the initial weight gain gives a nice psychological boost.

No reason to load now with the new transports that are out.............(swole v2, San V12)

i've been told to take

4 x 5g (20g) Creatine a day for first 4-5 days

2 x 5g (10g) Creatine after loading dose for the rest of the month


I read somewhere that creatine dose not need to be cycled and that many athletes now take creatine continuously, and re-load it every 4-6 weeks

is that advised? just take 20g for a week then 10g for 4 weeks then 20g for a week then 10 for 4 weeks and so on....

peace

I don't creatine load and many people I know do not do it either. We think it's a way the promotor makes money. If you load, you use more....if you don't you'll save. The promotor wants to you use more so you'll have to purchase more sooner than you really should. You'll get the same results.


This is my theory and the way I do it.

1) About cycling.............it is like any other supp. If you take it continuously, your receptors will adjust and your body will not feel the affects of the dose your taking unless you give your body a break and let you receptors return to normal before starting again.
2)You don't have to load, but if you don't it will take several weeks to get your muscles saturated instead of days.