Tribulus Terrestris and ZMA stack??

data210 · 09-21-2008, 10:20 PM

Has anyone used, or had reviews on a Tribulus Terrestris and ZMA stack? I have been researching online and have seen mixed reviews on these supplements.

I am 20 years old, and have been lifting for a year and a half.

My lifting routine is - Sun shoulders / monday bis and tris / tues off / wed legs / thursday chest / friday back.

Without boring you all to death with my diet, I eat well since I have been working with my nutrition professor to improve my diet.

I'm 6'3 190lbs 6% bf, and in my opinion I'm an ectomorphic body type.

So what are some of your opinions on both of these supplements, or one or the other by itself? If you guys don't like em, does anyone have any other recommendations like Xfactor?

I want to stay away from supplements that will require pct, or have the possibility of hormonal side effects.

**Built** · 09-21-2008, 10:50 PM

Trib: helps rats and middle-aged men get stiffies. Won't boost test.
ZMA: you'll sleep like the dead. Won't boost test unless you happened to be zinc deficient, which is unlikely.

Are you gaining weight at all? What do you eat, and describe your training.

data210 · 09-21-2008, 11:09 PM

I seem to be hitting a wall. After a broken collarbone last summer I went down to 177, and over last winter I got up to 205 and dropped down to 180 due to medication this past spring. My weight seems to be between 185 and 190 consistently. I had a few e-mail conversations with Brian Whitacre, and he suggested to try his workout routine which I stated before. I have noticed strength gains, but I don't feel like I'm gaining any size or weight.

I vary my reps from 6 to 12, and 3 or 4 sets of 3 or 4 exercises each workout. I change up exercises probably every 2 weeks. I perform the main lifts like deads, squats, military press, dumbell press pull ups ect ect, along with isolation movements on bis and tris day.

My diet generally looks something like this, but it varies day to day.

Breakfast - 3 or 4 scrambled eggs, 2 or 3 pieces of millet toast with butter and apricot spread (no additives or sugars).

Snack - cliff bar, or some fruits and almonds or walnuts.

Lunch - roughly 7 ounces of chicken on 2 pieces of millet bread, lettuce, tomato, onion, pickles, mustard, mayo.

Snack - similar to the previous snack.

Post workout protein shake with 5 mg of creatine monohydrate and a banana.

Dinner - some type of protein, I'd say around 8 ounces of chicken or beef, noodles, rice or a starchy veggie like sweet potato or regular potatoes with some type of green veggie like spinach or asparagus.

Before bed I'll usually have a protein shake and a spoon full of peanut butter.

If any more information is needed I'd be more than happy to share it.

Thanks for your help!

**Built** · 09-21-2008, 11:13 PM

Okay, cool - now go to FitDay - Free Weight Loss and Diet Journal and enter what you eat. Report back the macros - that means grams protein, carb and fat, and total calories. Just copy and paste the numbers beside the pie chart. You'll see what that means when you get there.

There isn't a workout programme in the world that will put size on you or anybody else. That part comes from eating more food than you need.

Post up your macros. We start there.

data210 · 09-21-2008, 11:31 PM

That site didn't have some of the foods that I eat. I actually did this same thing For my nutrition class, and got it as close to what I actually eat as possible using the program that they they set me up with. I'll post my info, and if it isn't sufficient let me know and I will try to work with the site you recommended.

My DRIs are..

Calories - 4022
Carbs - 452g - 654g
Fat - 89g - 156g
Protein - 101g - 352g

My actual intake is..

Calories - 4450
Carbs - 292g
fat - 262g
protein 234g

**Built** · 09-21-2008, 11:34 PM

data210 · 09-21-2008, 11:36 PM

Forgot to mention that the program I used did not include protein shakes. So I'd add on about 60 grams of protein due to shakes. I also take daily vitamins, fish oil, and zyflimend, along with some medications per my doctor.

Thanks Built!

data210 · 09-21-2008, 11:37 PM

"Daily Recommended Intake"

Not sure how the program came up with what I should consume, but I figured i'd add that as well. I'm assuming it has to do with the pyramid or something.

**Built** · 09-22-2008, 12:03 AM

Oh, sorry, forget that part. I just want to know your actual intake.
Okay, is that fairly typical for your intake -about 4500 calories?

data210 · 09-22-2008, 07:23 AM

Yeah, I'd say between 4000 and 4500

**Built** · 09-22-2008, 09:51 AM

And you're not making gains, right? Weight is stable?

This is so easy to fix: eat more. Track and religiously consume 5000 calories a day for a few weeks and see what happens to your weight and your gains in the gym.

If you don't gain weight, increase it to 5500.

Neither Trib nor ZMA has sufficient calories to do this. You just need more calories. You're currently eating at maintenance.

data210 · 09-22-2008, 11:02 AM

Alrighty, thanks for your advice!

I'm currently taking Optimum Nutrition's micronized Creatine with my post workout shake and a piece of fruit.. Do you recommend me taking it with grape juice instead? Are there any other supplements you would recommend once I get my diet to the right calorie amount?

**Built** · 09-22-2008, 12:40 PM

Creatine works best with dextrose. Use that.

Any other supps? Sure. I'll list the core ones I take:
Vitamin C, gram a day
Creatine monohydrate, 5g daily
Fish oil, 10g daily
Multi B (the one I take is called "B-50")
Selenium 200mcg
Vitamin E 200 IU
Vitamin D 2000 IU

data210 · 09-22-2008, 01:36 PM

Awesome. I'll try the dextrose idea. Do you think I'll be able to find it at the grocery store, and how much should I use?

**Built** · 09-22-2008, 01:40 PM

I get dextrose at superstore, in the beer and winemaking aisle. Ubrews sell it, too. It's very cheap.

You could try a scoop of protein and the same-sized scoop of dextrose in a shake with your creatine pre or post workout. A protein-scooper that portions out about 20-25g protein will portion out about 40g of dextrose. (I weighed it to check)

data210 · 09-22-2008, 03:33 PM

Excellent. Thanks for your advice! I'll keep you updated.

**Built** · 09-22-2008, 04:32 PM

Good luck!

data210 · 09-24-2008, 12:00 PM

Built,

I'm about to run to the store to get some dextrose. Will I need to reload since I'm switching to dextrose? Or can I continue with 5gs after my workout?

**Built** · 09-24-2008, 02:33 PM

Reload?

**IainDaniel** · 09-24-2008, 02:36 PM

Yeah the old myth of loading up on creatine when you first start it

**Built** · 09-24-2008, 02:37 PM

Oh - LOL! I thought he meant he was loading with dextrose!

data210 · 09-24-2008, 03:39 PM

I'm assuming continuing with 5 grams will work haha.

So the info I've come across that loading isn't necessary is true?

09-21-2008, 10:20 PM	#1
data210 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: a Posts: 41	Tribulus Terrestris and ZMA stack?? Has anyone used, or had reviews on a Tribulus Terrestris and ZMA stack? I have been researching online and have seen mixed reviews on these supplements. I am 20 years old, and have been lifting for a year and a half. My lifting routine is - Sun shoulders / monday bis and tris / tues off / wed legs / thursday chest / friday back. Without boring you all to death with my diet, I eat well since I have been working with my nutrition professor to improve my diet. I'm 6'3 190lbs 6% bf, and in my opinion I'm an ectomorphic body type. So what are some of your opinions on both of these supplements, or one or the other by itself? If you guys don't like em, does anyone have any other recommendations like Xfactor? I want to stay away from supplements that will require pct, or have the possibility of hormonal side effects.

09-21-2008, 10:50 PM	#2
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,118	Trib: helps rats and middle-aged men get stiffies. Won't boost test. ZMA: you'll sleep like the dead. Won't boost test unless you happened to be zinc deficient, which is unlikely. Are you gaining weight at all? What do you eat, and describe your training. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

09-21-2008, 11:13 PM	#4
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,118	Okay, cool - now go to FitDay - Free Weight Loss and Diet Journal and enter what you eat. Report back the macros - that means grams protein, carb and fat, and total calories. Just copy and paste the numbers beside the pie chart. You'll see what that means when you get there. There isn't a workout programme in the world that will put size on you or anybody else. That part comes from eating more food than you need. Post up your macros. We start there. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

09-21-2008, 11:34 PM	#6
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,118	Dri? Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

09-22-2008, 12:03 AM	#9
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,118	Oh, sorry, forget that part. I just want to know your actual intake. Okay, is that fairly typical for your intake -about 4500 calories? Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

09-21-2008, 11:09 PM	#3
data210 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: a Posts: 41	I seem to be hitting a wall. After a broken collarbone last summer I went down to 177, and over last winter I got up to 205 and dropped down to 180 due to medication this past spring. My weight seems to be between 185 and 190 consistently. I had a few e-mail conversations with Brian Whitacre, and he suggested to try his workout routine which I stated before. I have noticed strength gains, but I don't feel like I'm gaining any size or weight. I vary my reps from 6 to 12, and 3 or 4 sets of 3 or 4 exercises each workout. I change up exercises probably every 2 weeks. I perform the main lifts like deads, squats, military press, dumbell press pull ups ect ect, along with isolation movements on bis and tris day. My diet generally looks something like this, but it varies day to day. Breakfast - 3 or 4 scrambled eggs, 2 or 3 pieces of millet toast with butter and apricot spread (no additives or sugars). Snack - cliff bar, or some fruits and almonds or walnuts. Lunch - roughly 7 ounces of chicken on 2 pieces of millet bread, lettuce, tomato, onion, pickles, mustard, mayo. Snack - similar to the previous snack. Post workout protein shake with 5 mg of creatine monohydrate and a banana. Dinner - some type of protein, I'd say around 8 ounces of chicken or beef, noodles, rice or a starchy veggie like sweet potato or regular potatoes with some type of green veggie like spinach or asparagus. Before bed I'll usually have a protein shake and a spoon full of peanut butter. If any more information is needed I'd be more than happy to share it. Thanks for your help!

09-21-2008, 11:31 PM	#5
data210 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: a Posts: 41	That site didn't have some of the foods that I eat. I actually did this same thing For my nutrition class, and got it as close to what I actually eat as possible using the program that they they set me up with. I'll post my info, and if it isn't sufficient let me know and I will try to work with the site you recommended. My DRIs are.. Calories - 4022 Carbs - 452g - 654g Fat - 89g - 156g Protein - 101g - 352g My actual intake is.. Calories - 4450 Carbs - 292g fat - 262g protein 234g

09-21-2008, 11:36 PM	#7
data210 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: a Posts: 41	Forgot to mention that the program I used did not include protein shakes. So I'd add on about 60 grams of protein due to shakes. I also take daily vitamins, fish oil, and zyflimend, along with some medications per my doctor. Thanks Built!

09-21-2008, 11:37 PM	#8
data210 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: a Posts: 41	"Daily Recommended Intake" Not sure how the program came up with what I should consume, but I figured i'd add that as well. I'm assuming it has to do with the pyramid or something.

09-22-2008, 07:23 AM	#10
data210 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: a Posts: 41	Yeah, I'd say between 4000 and 4500

09-22-2008, 09:51 AM	#11
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,118	And you're not making gains, right? Weight is stable? This is so easy to fix: eat more. Track and religiously consume 5000 calories a day for a few weeks and see what happens to your weight and your gains in the gym. If you don't gain weight, increase it to 5500. Neither Trib nor ZMA has sufficient calories to do this. You just need more calories. You're currently eating at maintenance. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

09-22-2008, 11:02 AM	#12
data210 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: a Posts: 41	Alrighty, thanks for your advice! I'm currently taking Optimum Nutrition's micronized Creatine with my post workout shake and a piece of fruit.. Do you recommend me taking it with grape juice instead? Are there any other supplements you would recommend once I get my diet to the right calorie amount?

09-22-2008, 12:40 PM	#13
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,118	Creatine works best with dextrose. Use that. Any other supps? Sure. I'll list the core ones I take: Vitamin C, gram a day Creatine monohydrate, 5g daily Fish oil, 10g daily Multi B (the one I take is called "B-50") Selenium 200mcg Vitamin E 200 IU Vitamin D 2000 IU Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

09-22-2008, 01:36 PM	#14
data210 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: a Posts: 41	Awesome. I'll try the dextrose idea. Do you think I'll be able to find it at the grocery store, and how much should I use?

09-22-2008, 01:40 PM	#15
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,118	I get dextrose at superstore, in the beer and winemaking aisle. Ubrews sell it, too. It's very cheap. You could try a scoop of protein and the same-sized scoop of dextrose in a shake with your creatine pre or post workout. A protein-scooper that portions out about 20-25g protein will portion out about 40g of dextrose. (I weighed it to check) Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

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09-22-2008, 03:33 PM	#16
data210 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: a Posts: 41	Excellent. Thanks for your advice! I'll keep you updated.

09-22-2008, 04:32 PM	#17
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,118	Good luck! Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

09-24-2008, 12:00 PM	#18
data210 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: a Posts: 41	Built, I'm about to run to the store to get some dextrose. Will I need to reload since I'm switching to dextrose? Or can I continue with 5gs after my workout?

09-24-2008, 02:33 PM	#19
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,118	Reload? Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

09-24-2008, 02:36 PM	#20
IainDaniel My Role Model Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 17,548	Yeah the old myth of loading up on creatine when you first start it Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. Michael Jordan

09-24-2008, 02:37 PM	#21
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,118	Oh - LOL! I thought he meant he was loading with dextrose! Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

09-24-2008, 03:39 PM	#22
data210 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: a Posts: 41	I'm assuming continuing with 5 grams will work haha. So the info I've come across that loading isn't necessary is true?