The Creatine Graveyard...

WillBrink · 02-21-2009, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben dur

according to these studies
creatine monohydrate is stable in solution for much longer than originally thought

thoughts?

CM has always been known to be very stable. Again, read my report closely. Reports of it not being stable were invented marketing of those selling competing forms.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben dur

---------back on topic-----------
when i take creatine mono i add weight
when

Which means it's working: increasing intra cellular water which is an anabolic stimulus and WHY people use creatine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben dur

i take cee i "dont bloat"

You never did bloat. You gain weight as you were supposed where you were supposed to. Again, invented marketing term of those competing with CM. Why would anyone take creatine in any form if they didn't want to gain weight in the form of intra (inside) cellular water which is an anabolic stimulus which = more muscle and more strength?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben dur

but then my weight doesnt change significantly either

Which means, as expected, it didn't do what creatine is supposed to. It didn't work...

WillBrink · 02-21-2009, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Ok.

I am no scientist or bullshit artist. I am not a self-acclaimed specialist or bodybuilder. I am just a consumer with a weightlifting lifestyle that cannot deny strength numbers put down on paper after adding CEE to my regime.

What ever makes you happy. I just supply the facts as they exist as a consumer advocate and industry insider. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think...matters not to me.

Good luck.

Ben dur · 02-21-2009, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillBrink

CM has always been known to be very stable. Again, read my report closely. Reports of it not being stable were invented marketing of those selling competing forms.

Which means it's working: increasing intra cellular water which is an anabolic stimulus and WHY people use creatine.

You never did bloat. You gain weight as you were supposed where you were supposed to. Again, invented marketing term of those competing with CM. Why would anyone take creatine in any form if they didn't want to gain weight in the form of intra (inside) cellular water which is an anabolic stimulus which = more muscle and more strength?

Which means, as expected, it didn't do what creatine is supposed to. It didn't work...

i was just reinforcing the article with my personal experience

good thread

AKIRA · 02-21-2009, 12:14 PM

Will, I have watched your vids and seen your input on Police related threads.

What exactly do you do ?

WillBrink · 02-21-2009, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben dur

i was just reinforcing the article with my personal experience

It's all good. I was just trying to show you what was actually happening physiologically speaking that explained your experiences.

WillBrink · 02-21-2009, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Will, I have watched your vids and seen your input on Police related threads.

What exactly do you do ?

A lot of different things. My general bio on the brinkzone:

BrinkZone.com - The Final Frontier in Bodybuilding, Health & Fitness

Specific to what I do with tactical law enforcement/SWAT:

Optimal Swat

Hope that answers your question.

PreMier · 02-21-2009, 06:50 PM

i like to err on the side of science.. and i will be the first to say that i get better results from CM, compared to CEE.

i respect the fact that people 'feel' somethings working, but its not proof. its like gopro with glutamine. he swears by it, but just because he 'feels' it working doesnt mean it is. 'yup, my baseline protein synthesis levels just returned to normal, this glutamine is miracle stuff!'.

if the studies are showing CM is more effective, then it probably is. im not going to deny however that CEE might be working better for some. there really is no such thing as absolutes

WillBrink · 03-07-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PreMier

i like to err on the side of science.. and i will be the first to say that i get better results from CM, compared to CEE.

i respect the fact that people 'feel' somethings working, but its not proof. its like gopro with glutamine. he swears by it, but just because he 'feels' it working doesnt mean it is. 'yup, my baseline protein synthesis levels just returned to normal, this glutamine is miracle stuff!'.

if the studies are showing CM is more effective, then it probably is. im not going to deny however that CEE might be working better for some. there really is no such thing as absolutes

Well said.

Stewart14 · 03-07-2009, 06:21 PM

I have been using CM for just about as long as I have been seriously lifting weights, so let's say that's close to 10 years now.

I have no fricken idea if the stuff is "working" or "not working" for me anymore! I never really did a "loading" phase, I would always just throw a teaspoon in my pre workout drink and another teaspoon in my post.

At this point, how would I know if it were working or not? My weight has been roughly the same give or take a few pounds for a couple of years now. Maybe initially I gained some weight from it, but I really don't remember if it was due to CM or not.

I just assume that it is just silently doing it's thing as far as workout capacity and strength goes, and I am not getting weight gain due to not loading properly.

I guess the only way to know for sure would be to stop taking it for a while and then restart it huh?

**Prince** · 03-07-2009, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewart14

I have been using CM for just about as long as I have been seriously lifting weights, so let's say that's close to 10 years now.

I have no fricken idea if the stuff is "working" or "not working" for me anymore! I never really did a "loading" phase, I would always just throw a teaspoon in my pre workout drink and another teaspoon in my post.

At this point, how would I know if it were working or not? My weight has been roughly the same give or take a few pounds for a couple of years now. Maybe initially I gained some weight from it, but I really don't remember if it was due to CM or not.

I just assume that it is just silently doing it's thing as far as workout capacity and strength goes, and I am not getting weight gain due to not loading properly.

I guess the only way to know for sure would be to stop taking it for a while and then restart it huh?

Stop using it for awhile and/or switch to CEE and see if you notice a difference.

Ngordyn · 03-08-2009, 02:12 PM

well seeing as how everyone seems to have different results id say it matters more on how your body specifically responds than what is "inferior"

if u respond to CEE and not to CM or KA then take CEE

personally i respond to kre-alkalyn rather well

and i say this with using CEE and CM under the exact same diet and exact same training routine and the exact same protein and multi-vitamin i experienced a faster rate of strength gains on KA

i do respect the study and realize for a general population it is probably better but there is NO WAY it is that way for everyone

after reading the study however i will now recommend people to start with CM and see if they respond or not , i do like science for general population i just don't rely on

Ben dur · 03-09-2009, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ngordyn

well seeing as how everyone seems to have different results id say it matters more on how your body specifically responds than what is "inferior"

if u respond to CEE and not to CM or KA then take CEE

personally i respond to kre-alkalyn rather well

and i say this with using CEE and CM under the exact same diet and exact same training routine and the exact same protein and multi-vitamin i experienced a faster rate of strength gains on KA

i do respect the study and realize for a general population it is probably better but there is NO WAY it is that way for everyone

after reading the study however i will now recommend people to start with CM and see if they respond or not , i do like science for general population i just don't rely on

id like to slap you
but
maybe...

nothing is absolute

camarosuper6 · 03-09-2009, 10:53 PM

I find it amusing how personally some people take the idea that what they are taking/doing/understanding could be something other than complete truth and nothing but the truth.

Nobody is saying that CEE has no value. Rather it seems to be that CM, when all things are equal, is still the pound for pound creatine champion.

That being said, science has always been slow to catch what bodybuilders have said worked for years with only empirical evidence to go on (anabolic steroids is a good example). And without question the jury on CEE seems to be quite strong in favor for.

Ngordyn · 03-09-2009, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben dur

id like to slap you
but
maybe...

nothing is absolute

lol ill stick to my results , and you stick to your's

baz964 · 03-19-2009, 05:54 AM

Hiya

Thinking of trying a supplement, been looking into the creatine facts and myths...huge subject!

It seems a minefield of information and mis-information.
So many opinions difficult to know which way to jump!

Brad

Ngordyn · 03-19-2009, 11:14 AM

if its your first time start with CM easy cheap , and if it works for you great

WillBrink · 06-09-2009, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillBrink

The Creatine Grave Yard
By Will Brink © 2009

Looks like another “high tech” form of creatine has got one foot planted firmly in the creatine grave yard. What is the creatine graveyard? It’s where forms of creatine - other then monohydrate - go when either science has shown them inferior to monohydrate, and or it’s life cycle of hype has come to and end.

I refer specifically to creatine ethyl ester (CEE). As with the many “high tech” forms of creatine before it, all manner of claims were/are made about how superior it is to creatine monohydrate (CM). It always starts the same. First the company will invent a long list of negatives about CM such as “poorly absorbed” or “causes bloat” or “is not stable” and then goes onto claim their form of creatine has solved all those invented negatives. The problem is, the data already shows CM does not suffer from virtually any of the negatives they invent, nor do they show their form “cures” those negatives. Sellers of CCE for example claimed CEE was better absorbed and utilized vs. CM, and that has been shown to be nonsense. There have been several in vitro (test tube) studies pointing to the fact CEE is inferior to CM, but a recent study done in humans puts a final nail in the coffin as far as I am concerned. This study is titled “The effects of creatine ethyl ester supplementation combined with heavy resistance training on body composition, muscle performance, and serum and muscle creatine levels” The full study is public access and can be read here:

Cont:

The Creatine Grave Yard | Brinkzone Blog

Above URL no longer works. Correct URL is:

The Creatine Grave Yard | Brinkzone Blog

lendbz · 06-12-2009, 02:24 PM

what about Kre-alkalyn??

**dg806** · 06-12-2009, 03:21 PM

Did you read the report?????

WillBrink · 09-12-2009, 08:29 AM

Just more confirmation for what I said in the Graveyard.....

Just confirms what I said in the Creatine Graveyard a while back:

Biochemical and Biophysical Research Communications
Volume 388, Issue 2, 16 October 2009, Pages 252-255

Non-enzymatic cyclization of creatine ethyl ester to creatinine
Matthew W. Giese, a, and Carl S. Lechera

aDepartment of Chemistry, Marian University, 3200 Cold Spring Rd., Indianapolis, IN 46222, USA

Received 28 July 2009. Available online 4 August 2009.

Abstract

Creatine ethyl ester was incubated at 37 ?C in both water and phosphate-buffered saline and the diagnostic methylene resonances in the 1H NMR spectrum were used to identify the resultant products. It was found that mild aqueous conditions result in the cyclization of creatine ethyl ester to provide inactive creatinine as the exclusive product, and this transformation becomes nearly instantaneous as the pH approaches 7.4. This study demonstrates that mild non-enzymatic conditions are sufficient for the cyclization of creatine ethyl ester into creatinine, and together with previous results obtained under enzymatic conditions suggests that there are no physiological conditions that would result in the production of creatine. It is concluded that creatine ethyl ester is a pronutrient for creatinine rather than creatine under all physiological conditions encountered during transit through the various tissues, thus no ergogenic effect is to be expected from supplementation.

bio-chem · 09-12-2009, 06:59 PM

I've got to admit I've moved back to creatine monohydrate and have been just as happy. this has to be one of the best creatine threads ever. its not an advertisement and its not a kid asking what everyone uses. good job Will

**Prince** · 09-12-2009, 07:13 PM

all I can say is that CM did nothing for me and gave me nasty side effects, e.g. GI issues, I tried CEE and never turned back, CEE does work, I only have to take 3 grams per day and I have zero side effects. I have stopped using CEE as a test and there are noticeable difference in my muscle fullness, strength and endurance in the gym. And there are thousands of CEE users that will attest to this as well. I always tell people try CM and if it works for you great, if you don't respond to it and/or have GI issues switch to CEE.

IJ300 · 09-13-2009, 04:55 PM

I have taken both cee and regular monohydrate. I ran out of cee like 3 weeks ago and I look/feel the same and my numbers are still going up. When I got off mono for like a year I got the same results. So maybe I just don't respond to both.

suprfast · 10-23-2009, 06:01 PM

Not to bring up an old thread(a month isnt so bad) but i keep reading on "RESULTS". What the hell should i be looking for.

Will, i respect what you are doing with Science. I completely understand what you are saying when reading your blog and through here. You are just a fact checker against these companies claiming ridiculous results.

Also, when non CM users switch to CEE what results are they having.

How do i know im a non responder to CM and a responder to CEE or vice versa.

WillBrink · 10-23-2009, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suprfast

Not to bring up an old thread(a month isnt so bad) but i keep reading on "RESULTS". What the hell should i be looking for.

An increase in strength and weight. I noticed both quickly when I first started taking creatine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by suprfast

Will, i respect what you are doing with Science. I completely understand what you are saying when reading your blog

Actually, the saga continues on that and I just put up a new blog post with new CEE related research:

Creatine Ethyl Ester (CEE) converts to creatininine

Quote:

Originally Posted by suprfast

Also, when non CM users switch to CEE what results are they having.

You would have to ask them. Users of course can only give anecdotal reports, which are going to be highly subjective due to reasons I think have been covered already. The objective research that exists, says what it says about CEE, which is that it's inferior to CM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by suprfast

How do i know im a non responder to CM and a responder to CEE or vice versa.

If you are reading my work, you know as far as I am concerned, there are no "responders" to CEE, or at least responders who are going to respond in a superior manner then they would to CM. Some users of CEE feel otherwise, which you will see in this here thread, so I wont rehash it or waste the time here. You may not respond to creatine because you are a genuine non responder, or it may be you simply don't fully mix it before drinking it, not taking enough carbs with it (which was found to reduce % of non responders), have not been taking it long enough, etc, and other variables.

suprfast · 10-23-2009, 08:33 PM

Im positive its mixing properly, but i mix it with my protein at two times.

Preworkout is 25g whey isolate(lactose intolerant, so i cant use any other whey), 25g oatmeal(complex carbs) with one teaspoon of regular old walmart / body fortress creatine monohydrate.

Post workout i take 25g whey isolate with one teaspoon of same CM. In a separate cup i mix 2tb powder gatorade with just water. Now i know it mixes perfectly because i mix the protein and CM with my vita-mix. ZERO CHUNKS(no not a plug for a vita-mix, just stating it cant mix any better than this).

Now is there a brand preference for CM, or will any old 100% CM be fine.

This is what i take.
http://www.bodyfortress.com/images/s...cts/064950.pdf
Nothing special about my snake oil.
kris

jchappj · 10-24-2009, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suprfast

Now is there a brand preference for CM, or will any old 100% CM be fine.

I'm interested in your opinion on this too Will as I've read only to use CREAPURE ® creatine.

WillBrink · 10-24-2009, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suprfast

Im positive its mixing properly, but i mix it with my protein at two times.

Preworkout is 25g whey isolate(lactose intolerant, so i cant use any other whey), 25g oatmeal(complex carbs) with one teaspoon of regular old walmart / body fortress creatine monohydrate.

Post workout i take 25g whey isolate with one teaspoon of same CM. In a separate cup i mix 2tb powder gatorade with just water. Now i know it mixes perfectly because i mix the protein and CM with my vita-mix. ZERO CHUNKS(no not a plug for a vita-mix, just stating it cant mix any better than this).

Then it may not actually be fully dissolving. Mix in warm or hot water till totally dissolved, then add to your mix or simply take alone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by suprfast

Now is there a brand preference for CM, or will any old 100% CM be fine.

Short answer: I recommend Creapure as the CM source. Various companies use it.

Long answer:

Creatine, do you know what chemicals you are eating? Click here!

WillBrink · 10-24-2009, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchappj

I'm interested in your opinion on this too Will as I've read only to use CREAPURE ® creatine.

Yup. See above.

jchappj · 10-24-2009, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillBrink

Long answer:

Creatine, do you know what chemicals you are eating? Click here!

Great write-up Will, thanks!

02-21-2009, 12:14 PM	#34
AKIRA I am Rollo Tomassee.. Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Outside the box Posts: 8,787 Photos: 3	Will, I have watched your vids and seen your input on Police related threads. What exactly do you do ? 6' 209lbs (8/16) Bench 365 (12/3) Weighted Pullups 80lbs 3x3 (3/19) Squat 370 Deadlift after herniation 385lbs 3x3 (3/17) NASM certified 2/06 Journal

02-21-2009, 06:50 PM	#37
PreMier happy sumo Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 21,962 Photos: 2	i like to err on the side of science.. and i will be the first to say that i get better results from CM, compared to CEE. i respect the fact that people 'feel' somethings working, but its not proof. its like gopro with glutamine. he swears by it, but just because he 'feels' it working doesnt mean it is. 'yup, my baseline protein synthesis levels just returned to normal, this glutamine is miracle stuff!'. if the studies are showing CM is more effective, then it probably is. im not going to deny however that CEE might be working better for some. there really is no such thing as absolutes P-side Inc. "the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.

03-07-2009, 06:21 PM	#39
Stewart14 Weapon of Choice Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: in my home gym Posts: 3,606 Photos: 2	I have been using CM for just about as long as I have been seriously lifting weights, so let's say that's close to 10 years now. I have no fricken idea if the stuff is "working" or "not working" for me anymore! I never really did a "loading" phase, I would always just throw a teaspoon in my pre workout drink and another teaspoon in my post. At this point, how would I know if it were working or not? My weight has been roughly the same give or take a few pounds for a couple of years now. Maybe initially I gained some weight from it, but I really don't remember if it was due to CM or not. I just assume that it is just silently doing it's thing as far as workout capacity and strength goes, and I am not getting weight gain due to not loading properly. I guess the only way to know for sure would be to stop taking it for a while and then restart it huh? http://futuretrainer.blogspot.com/ --My new blog!!

03-08-2009, 02:12 PM	#41
Ngordyn Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: canada, ontario Posts: 430 Photos: 2	well seeing as how everyone seems to have different results id say it matters more on how your body specifically responds than what is "inferior" if u respond to CEE and not to CM or KA then take CEE personally i respond to kre-alkalyn rather well and i say this with using CEE and CM under the exact same diet and exact same training routine and the exact same protein and multi-vitamin i experienced a faster rate of strength gains on KA i do respect the study and realize for a general population it is probably better but there is NO WAY it is that way for everyone after reading the study however i will now recommend people to start with CM and see if they respond or not , i do like science for general population i just don't rely on Life is hard, Train harder My Goals Blog go big or go home friend " man i am not feeling the gym today" me " all i hear is la la la i am a little bitch"

03-09-2009, 10:53 PM	#43
camarosuper6 Unstoppable Force Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: California Posts: 3,415	I find it amusing how personally some people take the idea that what they are taking/doing/understanding could be something other than complete truth and nothing but the truth. Nobody is saying that CEE has no value. Rather it seems to be that CM, when all things are equal, is still the pound for pound creatine champion. That being said, science has always been slow to catch what bodybuilders have said worked for years with only empirical evidence to go on (anabolic steroids is a good example). And without question the jury on CEE seems to be quite strong in favor for. "Show me a beautiful woman, and I'll show you a guy tired of screwing her"

03-19-2009, 05:54 AM	#45
baz964 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: UK Posts: 17	Hiya Thinking of trying a supplement, been looking into the creatine facts and myths...huge subject! It seems a minefield of information and mis-information. So many opinions difficult to know which way to jump! Brad

03-19-2009, 11:14 AM	#46
Ngordyn Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: canada, ontario Posts: 430 Photos: 2	if its your first time start with CM easy cheap , and if it works for you great Life is hard, Train harder My Goals Blog go big or go home friend " man i am not feeling the gym today" me " all i hear is la la la i am a little bitch"

06-12-2009, 02:24 PM	#48
lendbz Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: New York Posts: 2	what about Kre-alkalyn??

06-12-2009, 03:21 PM	#49
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 18,197	Did you read the report????? 1-Andro Rx Pro-hormone

09-12-2009, 08:29 AM	#50
WillBrink Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: MA Posts: 1,098	Just more confirmation for what I said in the Graveyard..... Just confirms what I said in the Creatine Graveyard a while back: Biochemical and Biophysical Research Communications Volume 388, Issue 2, 16 October 2009, Pages 252-255 Non-enzymatic cyclization of creatine ethyl ester to creatinine Matthew W. Giese, a, and Carl S. Lechera aDepartment of Chemistry, Marian University, 3200 Cold Spring Rd., Indianapolis, IN 46222, USA Received 28 July 2009. Available online 4 August 2009. Abstract Creatine ethyl ester was incubated at 37 ?C in both water and phosphate-buffered saline and the diagnostic methylene resonances in the 1H NMR spectrum were used to identify the resultant products. It was found that mild aqueous conditions result in the cyclization of creatine ethyl ester to provide inactive creatinine as the exclusive product, and this transformation becomes nearly instantaneous as the pH approaches 7.4. This study demonstrates that mild non-enzymatic conditions are sufficient for the cyclization of creatine ethyl ester into creatinine, and together with previous results obtained under enzymatic conditions suggests that there are no physiological conditions that would result in the production of creatine. It is concluded that creatine ethyl ester is a pronutrient for creatinine rather than creatine under all physiological conditions encountered during transit through the various tissues, thus no ergogenic effect is to be expected from supplementation. - Will @ BrinkZone The No#1 Science Based Performance, Fitness, and Bodybuilding Resource on the 'net....

09-12-2009, 07:13 PM	#52
Prince IronMagLabs Owner Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 37,397 Photos: 356	all I can say is that CM did nothing for me and gave me nasty side effects, e.g. GI issues, I tried CEE and never turned back, CEE does work, I only have to take 3 grams per day and I have zero side effects. I have stopped using CEE as a test and there are noticeable difference in my muscle fullness, strength and endurance in the gym. And there are thousands of CEE users that will attest to this as well. I always tell people try CM and if it works for you great, if you don't respond to it and/or have GI issues switch to CEE. BOARD SPONSORS: MassNutrition.com - Discount Supplement Superstore IronMagLabs.com - Bodybuilding Nutrition AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders & Supplements CEMProducts.com - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclesProd.com - Steroids, Bodybuilding & Training Blog Maximizer.com - Maximum Strength for Maximum Performance MikeGetsRipped.com - The Original 'Get Ripped' Blog ProteinRoutine.com - Experiments in Healthy Living Follow on Twitter Join Facebook Group Befriend on Myspace

09-13-2009, 04:55 PM	#53
IJ300 The world is mine Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Your moms bedroom Posts: 261 Photos: 18	I have taken both cee and regular monohydrate. I ran out of cee like 3 weeks ago and I look/feel the same and my numbers are still going up. When I got off mono for like a year I got the same results. So maybe I just don't respond to both. "I analyze life through a blind man's eyes to see better." K-rino

10-23-2009, 06:01 PM	#54
suprfast Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Merced, ca Posts: 388	Not to bring up an old thread(a month isnt so bad) but i keep reading on "RESULTS". What the hell should i be looking for. Will, i respect what you are doing with Science. I completely understand what you are saying when reading your blog and through here. You are just a fact checker against these companies claiming ridiculous results. Also, when non CM users switch to CEE what results are they having. How do i know im a non responder to CM and a responder to CEE or vice versa. 5'8" 207 lbs 225lbs(6.8.09)/207lbs(10.22.09) looking for 200lbs in 25 weeks(a pound a week) Exercise Examples

10-23-2009, 08:33 PM	#56
suprfast Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Merced, ca Posts: 388	Im positive its mixing properly, but i mix it with my protein at two times. Preworkout is 25g whey isolate(lactose intolerant, so i cant use any other whey), 25g oatmeal(complex carbs) with one teaspoon of regular old walmart / body fortress creatine monohydrate. Post workout i take 25g whey isolate with one teaspoon of same CM. In a separate cup i mix 2tb powder gatorade with just water. Now i know it mixes perfectly because i mix the protein and CM with my vita-mix. ZERO CHUNKS(no not a plug for a vita-mix, just stating it cant mix any better than this). Now is there a brand preference for CM, or will any old 100% CM be fine. This is what i take. http://www.bodyfortress.com/images/s...cts/064950.pdf Nothing special about my snake oil. kris 5'8" 207 lbs 225lbs(6.8.09)/207lbs(10.22.09) looking for 200lbs in 25 weeks(a pound a week) Exercise Examples

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