The Creatine Graveyard...

suprfast · 10-24-2009, 01:00 PM

Took this off the "creapure" website.

Quote:

Creapure® is a registered trademark and a registered logo. Companies are free to use the logo as a seal of quality after signing a brand license agreement. High quality - and, therefore, safe - creatine products bear the Creapure® logo.

Looks like two brands here in the states are allowed.

PROLAB and OPTIMUM NUTRITION

bio-chem · 10-24-2009, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillBrink

Creatine, do you know what chemicals you are eating? Click here!

loved the article, very informative. my problem is when the research is from an unknown source. I work in research and when you can't say what company did the research red flags go off everywhere for me. "a reputable company" then say the name. It lends legitimacy. Your reputation in my eyes is without question from what I've seen and read from you so far, but this seems to be a glaring weakness in the article.

suprfast · 10-24-2009, 03:07 PM

I do agree, same red flags were going off.

Appeal to authority?

bio-chem · 10-24-2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suprfast

I do agree, same red flags were going off.

Appeal to authority?

I'm sure Will will address the issue. it's his nature. i doubt it will be the answer we are looking for, but he will do his best. He seems to me to be a good guy who is legit.

WillBrink · 10-24-2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bio-chem

loved the article, very informative. my problem is when the research is from an unknown source. I work in research and when you can't say what company did the research red flags go off everywhere for me. "a reputable company" then say the name. It lends legitimacy. Your reputation in my eyes is without question from what I've seen and read from you so far, but this seems to be a glaring weakness in the article.

And the reasons for not disclosing the company are given. I didn't disclose the name of the company that tested well either for some years, only recently disclosing the fact it was Creapure. For years I got letters and emails asking "What's the name of the German brand that tested so well Will?" and only 'till fairly recent was that info disclosed for both reasons mentioned in the article, and a few reasons that were not, but it does not take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

There are times when one can disclose a source, and times you can't, but I don't blame you for asking...

WillBrink · 10-24-2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suprfast

Took this off the "creapure" website.

Looks like two brands here in the states are allowed.

PROLAB and OPTIMUM NUTRITION

Lots of mail 'net based places also. I get mine from the Life Extension personally but a google search will usually turn up a fair number of companies.

WillBrink · 10-24-2009, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suprfast

I do agree, same red flags were going off.

Appeal to authority?

Which authority? :-)

suprfast · 10-24-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillBrink

Which authority? :-)

You big guy. I believe you truly are telling the truth. While its not easy to sit back and just listen to BECAUSE MY RESEARCH SAYS SO, its also nice to know you are doing what it takes to debunk claims using SCIENCE.

My theory on not disclosing probably has to do with sales. Im sure company has some sort of stake in making money, and if there name gets out it could be detrimental.

Either way, thanks for the heads up. Ill be looking for new creatine next week, since the stuff i have only has a few days left. Ill pick up something with creature and give it a shot.
kris

bio-chem · 10-24-2009, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillBrink

And the reasons for not disclosing the company are given. I didn't disclose the name of the company that tested well either for some years, only recently disclosing the fact it was Creapure. For years I got letters and emails asking "What's the name of the German brand that tested so well Will?" and only 'till fairly recent was that info disclosed for both reasons mentioned in the article, and a few reasons that were not, but it does not take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

There are times when one can disclose a source, and times you can't, but I don't blame you for asking...

let me get this right. this study is years old? has there been a follow up study to test where things are now? It's not too hard to imagine a scenario where Creapure is now the worst creatine out there.

WillBrink · 10-25-2009, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bio-chem

let me get this right. this study is years old?

(1) yes (2) it's not a study (3) follow up testing was done a few years later and found the same results:

Creatine, do you know what chemicals you are eating? Learn the facts here

BTW, due to how much trouble the first article caused, none of the mags would touch the second.

This is fairly common knowledge in the industry, and it was me who brought it to the attention of the industry and end users.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bio-chem

has there been a follow up study to test where things are now? It's not too hard to imagine a scenario where Creapure is now the worst creatine out there.

One could imagine a scenario where creatine is now made from cocaine, but but it's not very likely... A more probable scenario would be that Chinese and US manufacturers of creatine have improved to the point the differences are negligible, but I don't have up to date tests to show it. The Chinese have a history or poor quality control with supps in general, and knowing the company as I do that produces Creapure, etc, etc, that's the brand I will use and recommend until I see new tests that say other wise.

jchappj · 10-25-2009, 08:12 AM

Let's hope they don't buy the German company!! That would be the scenaro I could envision!!

WillBrink · 10-25-2009, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchappj

Let's hope they don't buy the German company!! That would be the scenaro I could envision!!

Stranger things have happened I guess. I'll know it if it happens and will report that too.

Ben dur · 10-25-2009, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillBrink

The Chinese have a history or poor quality control with supps in general

i think its safe to say that MOST of the PRODUCT (not just sups) that come from china are subject to LOW QUALITY CONTROL

point in case
MELAMINE and FORMALDEHYDE in Chinese milk, including baby formulas exported to the US, as well as a laundry list of other milk products

ANTIBIOTICS in breaded foods such as fish and pultry including product exported to the US

PESTICIDES in MANY "pharmaceutical grade" drugs and food additives

lets keep in mind that there is likely NO "FDA" type organization in china. quality control is of MINIMAL concern, PROFIT, and quantity, as well as the lowest possible cost are the major components of most of their products

and for our FDA or Customs to control the quality of the imported products is an unreal expectation.
lets say they tested 1 per 1000 shipments of Chinese exports to the US, in that scenario alone they would be completely FLOODED

it is likely that far less than 1% of all manufacturers of consumables from china are EVER even tested, BY ANY authority, CHINESE OR US

It would not be surprising to me if many of the supps we get from china be tested and reveal ALL KINDS of toxic, carcinogenic compounds, not to mention POOR QUALITY.

WillBrink · 10-25-2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben dur

i think its safe to say that MOST of the PRODUCT (not just sups) that come from china are subject to LOW QUALITY CONTROL

.

Agreed. I avoid eating anything from China be it supps, food, meds, etc.

Ben dur · 10-25-2009, 04:06 PM

edit

breeding
not "bread"

example
farmed fish
genetically mutated farmed chicken
rabbit
etc

although most could also be breaded
example
KFC
fried mullet
etc

further edit
KFC chicken is 100% US chicken

suprfast · 11-02-2009, 01:38 PM

Will,
sorry to ask you so many questions but you are the creatine man.

Just ordered a big container of Optimum Nutrition micronized creatine "CREAPURE".

Approximately what should i dose and when? Before/after workout(or both). different time? 1t(5g) twice or just once, or smaller.

Thanks
kris

WillBrink · 11-02-2009, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suprfast

Will,
sorry to ask you so many questions but you are the creatine man.

Just ordered a big container of Optimum Nutrition micronized creatine "CREAPURE".

Approximately what should i dose and when? Before/after workout(or both). different time? 1t(5g) twice or just once, or smaller.

Thanks
kris

3-5g per day seems about right for most people. For timing, etc:

Pre & Post Workout Nutrition - It's All In The Timing

For extensive info:

The Creatine Report - Fact, Effects, Side Effects, Benefits, Information and more...

suprfast · 11-02-2009, 01:54 PM

Thanks Will.
On top of things as always.
kris

**Dale Mabry** · 11-02-2009, 02:17 PM

What about Kre-Alkalyn?

WillBrink · 11-02-2009, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Mabry

What about Kre-Alkalyn?

I'm thinking you didn't read the "creatine graveyard" blog that started the thread? Kre-Alk can be found there...

10-24-2009, 03:07 PM	#63
suprfast Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Merced, ca Posts: 390	I do agree, same red flags were going off. Appeal to authority? 5'8" 207 lbs 225lbs(6.8.09)/207lbs(10.22.09) looking for 200lbs in 25 weeks(a pound a week) Exercise Examples

10-25-2009, 08:12 AM	#71
jchappj I Don't Feel Tardy! Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: USA Posts: 625 Photos: 6	Let's hope they don't buy the German company!! That would be the scenaro I could envision!! Peace!

10-25-2009, 04:06 PM	#75
Ben dur Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Milton FL Posts: 1,235 Photos: 6	edit breeding not "bread" example farmed fish genetically mutated farmed chicken rabbit etc although most could also be breaded example KFC fried mullet etc further edit KFC chicken is 100% US chicken 21 5'11" ~175lbs 8% on elec. analyzer

11-02-2009, 01:38 PM	#76
suprfast Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Merced, ca Posts: 390	Will, sorry to ask you so many questions but you are the creatine man. Just ordered a big container of Optimum Nutrition micronized creatine "CREAPURE". Approximately what should i dose and when? Before/after workout(or both). different time? 1t(5g) twice or just once, or smaller. Thanks kris 5'8" 207 lbs 225lbs(6.8.09)/207lbs(10.22.09) looking for 200lbs in 25 weeks(a pound a week) Exercise Examples

11-02-2009, 01:54 PM	#78
suprfast Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Merced, ca Posts: 390	Thanks Will. On top of things as always. kris 5'8" 207 lbs 225lbs(6.8.09)/207lbs(10.22.09) looking for 200lbs in 25 weeks(a pound a week) Exercise Examples

11-02-2009, 02:17 PM	#79
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 14,335 Photos: 10	What about Kre-Alkalyn? If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

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