Originally Posted by Tension

I can't have Whey,(extremely lactose intolerant)

Originally Posted by yourfitness

Why don't you ask a doc to suggest you because as per my knowledge Soy promotes increased production of estrogen... one doc told me that its even given to women who have reached menopause... so i dont think increased estrogen would be good for you... try consulting a doc and ask if you could take some digestive enzymes with whey protein

Originally Posted by Emma-Leigh

If you are going to post articles to try to support an opinion - you better pick something other than mercola. He is about as quack like as you can get.

The soy debate re oestrogens and it's effects is one that has yet to be proven. I suggest you do some further research (not through mercola) and make up your own mind. If you still concerned, then just stick with 'fermented' soy products. These have been used in Asian countries for many years and they are considered to be 'neutral' in terms of their phyto-oestrogens. Same with correctly treated isolates.

The phyto-oestrogens in most soy products (that do not have 'enhanced' phyto-oestrogen contents or those suppliments that are concentrated phyto-oestrogens) are at such a low value that they are hardly effective in 'increasing your oestrogen levels' to start with!

Also, in terms of 'making you fat' oestrogen is not primarily responsible for female fat stores - this is another 'myth' that will not die... Sure, it is important, BUT it is thought that progesterone has more importance in the areas of fat storage and hunger for females (link to discussions are here and here).

And while you are at it you can look here

Also - the phyto-oestrogens in soy are both agonists (ie: they target oestrogen receptors and act like oestrogen) and antagonists in their action at receptors (ie: They BLOCK oestrogen receptors and prevent your NATURAL and STRONGER oestrogen from binding).... What this means is that, as they are weaker in their agonist action in comparison to your natural oestrogen levels, when they bind to receptors they act like oestrogen BUT they also prevent your natural oestrogen from binding and they can help to decrease the overall action of oestrogen activity in your body!

There is more information here: in this article AND this article.

Also - if you are going to get all 'anti-phytooestrogen', then you are going to have to cut out linseed/flax from your diet as well - as this is also a rich source of phyto-oestrogens.

The effects of soy on infants - well, those studies were firstly done in rats (and, when talking about the effects of soy in rats you can not really make parallels with humans - esp in regards to protein utilisation, due to the rats increased methionine needs compared to humas...) and they are also using HIGHLY concentrated and high doses of these things. Eating Tofu/soy products (in which these bioactive compound are not concentrated) is not the same... Take a look at these articles:
http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/132/3/559S
http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/134/5/1220S

Lastly, the HEALTH benifits of soy HAVE been researched thoroughly -

Legumes, soy, phytooestrogens and some of their benifits and random articles:
Legumes and soybeans: overview of their nutritional profiles and health effects -- Messina 70 (3): 439S -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition
Potential Health Benefits of Dietary Phytoestrogens: A Review of the Clinical, Epidemiological, and Mechanistic Evidence -- Tham et al. 83 (7): 2223 -- Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism
http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/132/12/3577
Polyphenols: food sources and bioavailability -- Manach et al. 79 (5): 727 -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cg...ull/25/10/1715?
Soy Isoflavones--Benefits and Risks from Nature's Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators (SERMs) -- Setchell 20 (Supplement 5): -- Journal of the American College of Nutrition

Cardiovascular and renal benifits:
Cardiovascular and renal benefits of dry bean and soybean intake -- Anderson et al. 70 (3): 464S -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

Prevention of osteoporosis/bones:
Dietary phytoestrogens and their effect on bone: evidence from in vitro and in vivo, human observational, and dietary intervention studies -- Setchell and Lydeking-Olsen 78 (3): 593S -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition
http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/132/9/2605

Prevention of neoplasia:
http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/conten...act/129/9/1628?

Decreases cholesterol:
NEJM -- Meta-Analysis of the Effects of Soy Protein Intake on Serum Lipids
Effect of soybean phytoestrogen intake on low density lipoprotein oxidation resistance — PNAS

Diabetes and obesity:
Beneficial role of dietary phytoestrogens in obesity and diabetes -- Bhathena and Velasquez 76 (6): 1191 -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

There is also another (BB related) article on soy here.


I know there are other artcles which show they have negative effects, but I just wanted to show the other side of the arguement.