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  1. #1
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    My training program - Lee Hayward tweaked






    Hi Guys. I removed all the lower body exercises from the Lee Hayward 12 weeks program, and I came up with the following. Please don't start telling me that I should train the lower body too. I already had too many of these conversations. I am familiar with all the arguments and I decided I will not train the lower body.

    What I want you to tell me after a glance or two, is how balanced this program is. For example for me it seems that the shoulders are trained too much. But I'm definitely not an expert, so I don't know.

    Now you don't have to check each month, just glance at some month and tell me if you think its balanced.

    Thanks a lot!

    P.S. This is a 1 day on 1 day off program (rest after each day).

    Month 1

    Day 1

    Leg raises: 5x10
    Wide grip pull downs: 3x15
    Hyper extensions: 4x10
    Pull down ab crunches: 4x15
    Barbell Wrist curl: 4x10
    Incline sit ups: 3x10-20

    Day 2

    Incline barbell bench press:*5x5
    Seated dumbbell shoulder press:*5x8
    Bicep cable curls (from low pulley): 5x10
    Tricep push downs (using straight bar attachment): 5x10
    Bent over dumbbell lateral raises:*3x10-15

    Day 3

    Incline dumbbell bench press: 4x10
    Dumbbell side lateral raises: 4x10
    Bicep dumbbell curls: 4x12
    Tricep push downs (with rope attachment): 4x12
    Barbell upright rows: 3x15

    Month 2

    Day 1

    Incline sit ups: 3x10-20
    Bent over barbell rows:*5x8
    Barbell shoulder shrugs:*5x10
    Seated cable rows: 4x15
    Leg raises:*4x12
    Barbell Wrist curl: 3x12

    Day 2

    Decline barbell bench press:*5x5
    Seated barbell shoulder press (i.e. military press): 5x8
    Preacher barbell curls:*5x10
    Lying tricep extensions (with the EZ bar): 5x10
    Cable upright rows (from the low pulley): 3x15

    Day 3

    Crunches: 4x25+
    Flat dumbbell bench press: 4x10
    Dumbbell front lateral raises:*4x10
    Bicep barbell curls: 4x12
    Tricep push downs: (with V bar attachment): 4x12
    Close grip pull downs:*4x15

    Month 3

    Day 1

    Chin ups: 4 x as many as possible
    Pull down ab crunches:*5x10
    Chest supported row: 4x10
    Hyper extensions:*4x10
    Leg raises: 5x10
    Barbell Wrist curl: 5x8

    Day 2

    Flat barbell bench press: 5x5
    Bent over dumbbell lateral raises:*4x10
    Dumbbell side lateral raises:*4x10
    Dumbbell front lateral raises:*4x10
    Bicep cable curls (from low pulley): 5x10
    Tricep push downs (using straight bar attachment): 5x10

    Day 3

    Pull down ab crunches:*4x15
    Dumbbell bench press on the stability ball:* 4x10
    Dumbbell shoulder press sitting on the stability ball:*4x10
    EZ bar bicep curls:*4x12
    One arm over head dumbbell extensions:*4x12
    One arm dumbbell rows:*3x15


    Month 4

    Day 1

    Incline sit ups:*5x15
    Wide grip pull downs:*4x10
    Leg raises:*5x15
    Seated cable rows: 4x10
    Barbell Wrist curl: 4x12
    Pull down ab crunches:*4x15

    Day 2

    Dips: 5x5
    Chin ups: 4 x as many as possible
    Side lateral raises: 4x10
    Seated barbell shoulder press (i.e. military press): 4x10
    Bicep dumbbell preacher curls:*5x10
    Tricep push downs (using rope attachment): 5x10

    Day 3

    Push ups with feet elevated on the stability ball: 4 x as many
    Seated dumbbell shoulder press: 4x10
    Standing one arm dumbbell curls: 4x12
    One arm over head dumbbell extensions:*4x12
    Close grip pull downs:*4x15

  2. #2
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    Awful. I cannot see anything good about this program. There is no rhyme or reason for the choices of rep range, there is no periodization, far too much isolation compared to compounds, too much pressing compared to pulling, and whatever you say - if you have legs you should train them.

    Why would you want to leave out half your body, and subsequently half the potential growth hormones that come from training it? Not to mention risking potential postural problems. The fact that you've "heard it all before" makes your choice even more the wrong one. So whats the deal with that?
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    1.

    Ok, I took it from here. Lee Hayward is supposed to be an authority. So how do you explain this program then?
    12 Week Bodybuilding / Strength Training Workout Program

    2.

    Can you give me a link to another program which you would recommend? (Just keep in mind then I like the concept of switching every month or so in order not to let muscles get used to the program).

    3.

    I will explain my decision regarding legs in another topic. Just not here.

    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
    1.

    Ok, I took it from here. Lee Hayward is supposed to be an authority. So how do you explain this program then?
    12 Week Bodybuilding / Strength Training Workout Program
    He at least has you squatting and deadlifting in here.
    Additionally, you need to recognize that you are not just training your muscles when you train.

    Here's a quote from Mark Rippetoe: "There is simply no other exercise, and certainly no machine, that produces the level of central nervous system activity, improved balance and coordination, skeletal loading and bone density enhancement, muscular stimulation and growth, connective tissue stress and strength, psychological demand and toughness, and overall systemic conditioning than the correctly performed full squat."
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
    2.

    Can you give me a link to another program which you would recommend? (Just keep in mind then I like the concept of switching every month or so in order not to let muscles get used to the program).
    What are your current stats (age, height, weight, bf%/lean body mass), goals, training experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
    3.

    I will explain my decision regarding legs in another topic. Just not here.
    Your body doesn't know exercises, it knows movements. For example, when you do squats, you aren't just training your quads. Additionally, when you are training, you aren't just training your muscles (re-read Rippetoe's quote). But I'm very interested to here your reasoning for not training quad/hamstring dominant exercises.

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    In addition to what m11 said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
    1.

    Ok, I took it from here. Lee Hayward is supposed to be an authority. So how do you explain this program then?
    12 Week Bodybuilding / Strength Training Workout Program
    If he is an authority on training programs, i'm going to throw away my career plans for this industry right now. I like his youtube channel, but that program looks like every other cookie-cutter cobbled together from spare parts bodybuilding routines you see in the rags every week.

    There is a huge emphasis on pushing for both upper body and lower body which will ultimately lead to postural injuries due to the lack of pulling (shoulder injuries, ham pulls, etc). You've made it all the worse by removing any leg work, making the balance even more out of whack.

    There are loads of isolation and machine exercises in there, far outweighing compound freeweights exercises which will ensure the best gains and overall functional performance.

    The rep ranges are fairly random, and there is no periodization - something that ensures constant progress throughout the length of a program. All he has you doing is changing exercises a little, which really wont do anything. In fact, its probably counter productive as it'll make it hard to gauge progress.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
    2.

    Can you give me a link to another program which you would recommend? (Just keep in mind then I like the concept of switching every month or so in order not to let muscles get used to the program).
    http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/ne...1-newbies.html

    Read this. If you're considering doing a program this messed up you'll benefit from the solid information in here. I would also read the threads linked in my signature in this link:

    http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/tr...s-members.html

    I could just spew out a balanced and effective program for you to do, but then we'll just be back here in 6-12 weeks doing this again. Better to educate yourself so you can make your OWN programs suited to YOUR goals rather than trying to fit a square peg in a round hole doing something somebody else has given you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
    3.

    I will explain my decision regarding legs in another topic. Just not here.

    Thanks.
    While the prospect of waiting with baited breath to find out the answer in another topic is appealing, where better than here to discuss your reasons for leaving out a huge component of a balanced and effective training program? That was your question after all.
    http://www.getlifting.info

    Disclaimer: All health, fitness, diet, nutrition, anabolic steroid & supplement information posted here is intended for educational and informational purposes only, and is not intended as a substitute for proper medical advice from a medical doctor. We do not condone the use of anabolic steroids (AAS), all information about AAS is for educational and entertainment purposes only. If you choose to use AAS it's your responsibility to know the laws of the country that you live in. Consult your physician or health care professional before performing any of the exercises, or following any diet, nutrition or supplement advice described on this website.

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    Not training lower body

    Before I explain myself here, I just want to mention that I will be very grateful if you don't forget about my other topic regarding my training program, and help me there as well.

    Anyway, my reasons for not training legs are as follows:

    1.
    I have big legs, very big head, and a huge ass (don't get scared, I actually look quite well). In order to get into better proportions I need to train the upper body. Training the lower body will achieve the opposite result.

    2.
    I don't buy the theory that by training the lower body you will actually train the upper body even more. I'll clarify. I agree that Squats will get your chest/back more muscular as well(because of CNS stress), but I think the best way to make your chest/back muscular is to train them even more instead of doing squats.

    3.
    I don't care about how muscular I am, and I don't want to compete as bodybuilder or as weight lifter. All I want is to look good, that's all. I have big legs, so chicken legs won't be a problem. I see no reason to spend time training legs.

    So these were my reasons.

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    Threads merged, just easier this way, or we'll likely end up talking about the same thing in two threads :P
    http://www.getlifting.info

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    That's actually what I wanted to avoid. I want the readers to help me with my training program, and instead we will get a debate about training/not training legs. But I really need help about that training program!

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    Anyway. I'm 26 years old. I weight 76kg (167 lbs), have about 15% fat percentage, and I want to look good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
    1.
    I have big legs, very big head, and a huge ass (don't get scared, I actually look quite well). In order to get into better proportions I need to train the upper body. Training the lower body will achieve the opposite result.

    2.
    I don't buy the theory that by training the lower body you will actually train the upper body even more. I'll clarify. I agree that Squats will get your chest/back more muscular as well(because of CNS stress), but I think the best way to make your chest/back muscular is to train them even more instead of doing squats.

    3.
    I don't care about how muscular I am, and I don't want to compete as bodybuilder or as weight lifter. All I want is to look good, that's all. I have big legs, so chicken legs won't be a problem. I see no reason to spend time training legs.
    The main problem with not training legs, is while your legs may be "big" training the upper body to be stronger without training the legs is going to end up making you pretty susceptible to injury, usually in the lower back area, simply because there is an imbalance of strength - especially functional strength. Its possible your legs are big but theres nothing to say that they are strong, or even that all that size is muscle tissue. Fat will be burnt off on a weight lifting program, and un-used muscle will atrophy if energy is needed elsewhere and those muscles arent used. You're legs wont get bigger by not training them, but they sure as hell could get smaller.

    This can lead to a whole host of problems.

    If you pick up a heavy weight with your upper body, what is supporting that weight? Your legs and lower back. Not just the muscles, but the tendons, bones, connective tissue, and cartilage. As your upper body gets stronger, you are going to be picking up and lifting heavier and heavier weights, while the lower body is doing little to keep up with this.

    Overhead press? Need the legs. Bent over rows? Need the lower back and legs. Carrying stuff? Legs! Kneejoints! Bones! The very things that squatting and deadlifting will help to strengthen. Lifting is not just about muscle strength, but it helps strengthen all the other components aswell. One weak link can break the chain!

    Leg movements such as Deadlifts and Squats also utilize a LOT of core musculature to stabilize the weight. This is also a very important factor, as you use your core in pretty much everything you do in or out of the gym. Same deal as above, if you're lifting heavy weights with the upper body, whats gonna stabilize that weight? The core!

    Id bet without training legs you'd outstrip all those things fairly quickly. Might be in a few months, might be a year or two. But it only takes one injury to take you out. I was out for 18 months with a lower back injury, and it was just a moderate pull. If the core muscles that stabilize my back were weaker, could have been a tear, or maybe something worse.

    You've hit on my next point a tad, in that big movements like squats and deadlifts also train the rest of the body to a certain extent already, but most of the benefits come from things less obvious than that. The legs are the biggest muscles in the body, so training them requires a lot of energy and releases a lot of hormones post-workout. The former is great for people trying to get lean, because a few sets of squats is going to burn a shedload of calories. The latter is good for people trying to build up, because those hormones will act throughout the body - not just the legs.

    Theres a reason why the 20-rep squat program adds muscle throughout the whole body - its because doing that many squats is an adaptation-creating monster! I've done similar programs and added size to my arms with like, 3 sets of rows/bench a week and nothing else for upper body!

    Seriously man, there is no excuse short of injury or amputation for you not to train your legs. You're needlessly opening yourself up for injury, and under-cutting your potential for progress by leaving out a whole half of your body.

    There is absolutely no reason for it.
    http://www.getlifting.info

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
    That's actually what I wanted to avoid. I want the readers to help me with my training program, and instead we will get a debate about training/not training legs. But I really need help about that training program!
    Its fine man, i wont forget. Read those threads i linked to you.

    At the end of the day, the biggest help i CAN give you is to convince you to train your legs. I only trained upper body when i started training and once i started squatting regularly my progress went through the roof. My legs still aren't disproportionately big, and i squat all the time now.
    http://www.getlifting.info

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    Well look at this:
    http://www.leehayward.com/workout_pr.../pushdowns.htm

    You see his ass? That's how my ass looks. It's too big. Now imagine I'll do even more squats, how am I going to look like?
    Now remember that my only purpose here is to look better, not to lift weights. Try to think of it from my perspective. By doing squats and deadlifts I won't fix the bad genetic proportions of my body!

    Now about injuries. Naturally if you have more muscles you'll have a lesser chance to be injured. But I don't see this as an imbalance problem. For example construction workers may have bigs hands but small legs. Soccer players have huge legs but small upper body. Swimmers have huge backs and small chests. So imbalances are everywhere. It all depends on your job/occupation. So i'm not sure this is something we should worry about.

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    Your ass, as well as the gentlemen's in the picture, is big because of the fat that is covering your glutes. Lose the fat and your butt will look smaller.

    I don't think anyone has every complained about having glute muscles that were too big.

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    Playing devil's advocate here, I can see the need to specialize on upper body from an aesthetic perspective. Increasing your training volume and frequency for upper body is indeed the right approach - but I'd suggest you consider training your lower at maintenance while you do this. My approach here is to change your area of concentration, while maintaining a minimal, strength-focused approach of say, 3x5-8 squats and deads ohhh, how about once a week to keep those muscles hard and striated. Plus, this way, once your upper gets caught up with your lower, you'll be able to resume a more integrated approach to your training more quickly.

    Can you tell me how heavy you can lift currently? What can you pull on 5-rep weighted chins, and what is your 5-rep bench press? This will tell me a bit about your current conditioning.
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    You must be kidding. I'm sure you know that some people have too much fat in specific areas like hips, buttocks, breasts. I have a problem with the buttocks. It is also a known fact that these fat pockets cannot be removed by diet, only by liposuction (which is a surgical removal).

    Now I'm not going to do liposuction, but I also don't plan to increase the problem by adding even more volume and weight to this area. In fact one of the reasons I began bodybuilding is to make the rest of the body bigger so that my head and buttocks don't look disproportionate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Built View Post
    Playing devil's advocate here, I can see the need to specialize on upper body from an aesthetic perspective. Increasing your training volume and frequency for upper body is indeed the right approach - but I'd suggest you consider training your lower at maintenance while you do this. My approach here is to change your area of concentration, while maintaining a minimal, strength-focused approach of say, 3x5-8 squats and deads ohhh, how about once a week to keep those muscles hard and striated. Plus, this way, once your upper gets caught up with your lower, you'll be able to resume a more integrated approach to your training more quickly.

    Can you tell me how heavy you can lift currently? What can you pull on 5-rep weighted chins, and what is your 5-rep bench press? This will tell me a bit about your current conditioning.
    I didn't train for 5 years, and now I'm starting again. So I'm a total newbie now. Started only 2 months ago. I didn't do chins, and I can bench press maybe 40 kilograms (88 lbs).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
    Now about injuries. Naturally if you have more muscles you'll have a lesser chance to be injured.
    Not true. Bodybuilders, olympic weightlifters, strongmen and power-lifters get injured, and they have huge muscles!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
    But I don't see this as an imbalance problem. For example construction workers may have bigs hands but small legs. Soccer players have huge legs but small upper body. Swimmers have huge backs and small chests. So imbalances are everywhere. It all depends on your job/occupation. So i'm not sure this is something we should worry about.
    So you come here asking for a balanced program, then proceed to say balance isn't important? If one muscle in an antagonistic pair is far stronger than the other, you're saying this doesn't make any difference to the performance of that pair?

    We're not talking about job/occupations here. We're talking about training. Im sure some construction workers, soccer players, and swimmers DO have muscular imbalances. Last time i checked, soccer players are plagued with hamstring injuries. Having worked in building services for a few years in the past, a large portion of them complained of bad lower backs while a lot of them didn't.

    I can't generalize on people i haven't met, and neither can you because that logic is retarded. I don't know how they train, or whether they have muscular issues because you have just said "a few million people who have this occupation in common don't have any problems because i know at least one of them who doesn't".

    Im not telling you to train legs 7 days a week, and i think Built's suggestion is a good one. All im saying is that you'd be an idiot to leave them out altogether, for the reason i have already stated at length.
    http://www.getlifting.info

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
    It is also a known fact that these fat pockets cannot be removed by diet.
    Have you been diagnosed with such a disorder, or at least have a source for this?

    If you haven't tried to remove this fat through diet and exercise, i'm pretty confident that you will be able to lose fat from this area. Just because fat accumulates in specific areas and not others doesn't mean it is an unmovable object.

    There are certain areas where there is more adipose tissue in which the body stores fat, but that fat can always be utilized by the body for energy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazhole View Post
    There are certain areas where there is more adipose tissue in which the body stores fat, but that fat can always be utilized by the body for energy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
    You must be kidding. I'm sure you know that some people have too much fat in specific areas like hips, buttocks, breasts. I have a problem with the buttocks. It is also a known fact that these fat pockets cannot be removed by diet, only by liposuction (which is a surgical removal).
    I'm not kidding. I just conveniently posted this in another thread so i'll copy and paste it here. Additionally, I think would be hard pressed to find a picture of an individual who is lean and has an ass that is 'too big' in the sense that you are referring.



    Catecholamines are released during cardiovascular activity and basically during any situation that stresses your body (think: you encounter a lion in between yourself and your car and you need to get ready to run away), and those hormones bind to adrenoreceptors.

    Your body has two major receptors, alpha and beta receptors. There are 3-4 betas and 2 alphas. The pertinent ones are the alpha-2 and beta-2 receptors. The beta-2 receptors are the ones that, in short, signal for fat mobilization. However, the alpha-2 receptors increase cAMP levels which decrease breakdown.

    Men have more alpha-2 receptors in their belly area, whereas women have more in their thigh area. Conversely, men have more beta-2 receptors in their thigh areas, and women have more beta-2 receptors in their belly area.

    When you are stressed, you release catecholamines. When you release catecholamines, they ultimately bind to both receptors, and the density of those receptors per area basically define where fat gets mobilized or not.

    This explains for why the EC stacks as well as stronger CNS drugs like phendimetrazine work so well to help mobilize fat so that they can be used more readily.

    However, you don't get a lot of blood flow, relative to other parts of your body, to those areas. Therefore, they tend to mobilize fat slower than in other areas of your body. Notice how your upper body gets leaner before you see your abs?

    By doing cardio, you get an increase in blood volume to those areas and in turn, increase in exposure to catecholamines.

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    I asked about a balanced program because I want to be balanced aesthetically. You are saying that imbalance is not only a matter of aesthetics, but it can also cause injuries. I agree with you that injuries can be caused by imbalance, but I don't think this risk of injuries is increased that much. To prove that I gave you an example of soccer players. If injuries caused by imbalance were such a serious issue, soccer players would have also trained the upper body part. But they don't do that.

    Anyway, big thanks for all of your answers. I'll do what Build suggested and you agreed with.

    The only thing remains is to tweak the Lee Hayward program even more to make it more balanced according to what you said. Unfortunately I don't have the expertise for that, so if anyone helps me with this, that would be great. Otherwise I will just stick to my tweaked program having no other authoritative alternative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazhole View Post
    Im not telling you to train legs 7 days a week, and i think Built's suggestion is a good one. All im saying is that you'd be an idiot to leave them out altogether, for the reason i have already stated at length.
    For an individual that is well conditioned and would like to 'bring up' certain portions of their body, the training would certainly be altered to reach that goal.

    However, for all intents and purposes, you are relatively untrained (5 year layoff etc). Therefore, a well organized program should contain squats and deadlifts in order to bring you up to an acceptable strength level.

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    About fat in specific locations:

    Of course you can burn the fat there, but the proportion won't change. So if you go from 15% fat percentage to 10% fat percentage, all of your body will have less fat, including the problematic areas. However these areas will still be proportionally bigger than other areas.

    For example a woman can go to 12% fat, but she still will have breasts. That's because breasts have a lot of fat, and you can't burn all of it. That is, you can't burn more fat in breasts than in other places of the body. The same thing goes for the buttocks. I can't burn MORE fat there that in the rest of the body. That's why the problematic proportion will remain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
    To prove that I gave you an example of soccer players. If injuries caused by imbalance were such a serious issue, soccer players would have also trained the upper body part. But they don't do that.
    High level athletes frequently have a genetic profile that already provides for an extremely high level of conditioning and strength before they even start actively training. They are 'genetic freaks'. The additional training just kind of puts them over the top.

    You cannot compare those with optimal genetics to regular folks.

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    Eugine, thank you for the clarification.

    Here's my suggestion to you:

    • Read the link in my sig on "getting started". Track your diet and post up your current macros. Once you do this, we'll make some suggestions on how to reduce your calories.
    • Do the whole-body workout in the link in my sig for a month. Get your body used to moving again.
    • Once you're sure you're running a caloric deficit (ie you start dropping about say a pound a week, on average) and you can at least squat, dead and bench a plate a side (135lbs or 60kg), come back to this thread, drop me a PM and I will personally help you set up a specialization programme to add some mass to your upper. You need to drop bodyfat first. You're too juicy to partition well if you bulk, and you can't see what you're working with while you have that little layer of blubber covering you up.
    Wondering where to start? Confused? "Homework 1" will get you started.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
    About fat in specific locations:

    Of course you can burn the fat there, but the proportion won't change. So if you go from 15% fat percentage to 10% fat percentage, all of your body will have less fat, including the problematic areas. However these areas will still be proportionally bigger than other areas.

    For example a woman can go to 12% fat, but she still will have breasts. That's because breasts have a lot of fat, and you can't burn all of it. That is, you can't burn more fat in breasts than in other places of the body. The same thing goes for the buttocks. I can't burn MORE fat there that in the rest of the body. That's why the problematic proportion will remain.
    Trust me, at 12%, most women don't have much breast tissue. In my profile pic, I'm 14% and what's stuffed into my underwire A-cup bra is skin. I went to see my physiotherapist for my screwed up rotator cuff just before that was shot and this was his comment: "Wow, are you ever lean! <poke, poke, digs around into right pec> is there actually any breast tissue left there?"

    Forty pounds earlier, I barely fit into a D-cup.

    <weeps, shakes tiny fist in rage... >
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
    About fat in specific locations:

    Of course you can burn the fat there, but the proportion won't change. So if you go from 15% fat percentage to 10% fat percentage, all of your body will have less fat, including the problematic areas. However these areas will still be proportionally bigger than other areas.
    Perhaps relatively bigger in the sense of bone structure etc. However, if you get lean, your butt won't be bigger than you want it to be. Again, it would be very tough to find a lean person with a shockingly large butt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
    For example a woman can go to 12% fat, but she still will have breasts. That's because breasts have a lot of fat, and you can't burn all of it. That is, you can't burn more fat in breasts than in other places of the body. The same thing goes for the buttocks. I can't burn MORE fat there that in the rest of the body. That's why the problematic proportion will remain.
    I understand the point you are trying to make. I do get it.

    However, for this particular case, you are getting into secondary sexual characteristics that are associated with the various estrogen-related hormones. But if you do take a fat woman and diet them down, their breast size will decrease to an extent. For all intents and purposes, they'll never fully disappear.

    What i'm trying to get across to you is that your butt is big because of the fat. Additionally, you can get rid of the fat and your butt will no longer be 'too big'. Finally, you still would very much benefit by adding lower body dominant exercises to your routine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Built View Post
    Eugine, thank you for the clarification.

    Here's my suggestion to you:

    • Read the link in my sig on "getting started". Track your diet and post up your current macros. Once you do this, we'll make some suggestions on how to reduce your calories.
    • Do the whole-body workout in the link in my sig for a month. Get your body used to moving again.
    • Once you're sure you're running a caloric deficit (ie you start dropping about say a pound a week, on average) and you can at least squat, dead and bench a plate a side (135lbs or 60kg), come back to this thread, drop me a PM and I will personally help you set up a specialization programme to add some mass to your upper. You need to drop bodyfat first. You're too juicy to partition well if you bulk, and you can't see what you're working with while you have that little layer of blubber covering you up.
    I think this is the best thing to take away from this thread.

    Do that!

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    Ok people. Thanks for your help. I definitely learned something.
    However:

    1.
    I was not convinced that I should drop the Lee Hayward routine. After all he is also a specialist, and considered to be a very good one. So I doubt he prescribes something much worse than what Built or Gazhole prescribe.

    2.
    I was not convinced that muscular imbalance significantly increases the risk of injury. And if that's the case, I'm sorry, I still don't see why I should train lower body, even at minimal level.

    Anyway, I appreciate the time you spend arguing with me. I know its probably frustrating, but I am just a kind of person who doesn't like to make any effort unless it is absolutely required.

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    We can only bring you to the barbell, but we can't force you to deadlift it.

    Good luck with everything, feel free to come back if the Hayward stuff doesn't work out. Hopefully, it'll get you to your goals

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
    Ok people. Thanks for your help. I definitely learned something.
    However:

    1.
    I was not convinced that I should drop the Lee Hayward routine. After all he is also a specialist, and considered to be a very good one. So I doubt he prescribes something much worse than what Built or Gazhole prescribe.

    2.
    I was not convinced that muscular imbalance significantly increases the risk of injury. And if that's the case, I'm sorry, I still don't see why I should train lower body, even at minimal level.

    Anyway, I appreciate the time you spend arguing with me. I know its probably frustrating, but I am just a kind of person who doesn't like to make any effort unless it is absolutely required.
    The word you're looking for is "lazy".

    So basically, you're going to do whatever the hell you like after wasting the time of people who know more than you do, after specifically asking for their help?

    Don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.
    http://www.getlifting.info

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