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  1. #1
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    Need some valuable advice

    Alright,

    Going to try and get straight to the point here. My stats:

    6' 0"
    217 lbs - 19% bf
    22yrs old

    So here is the situation, about a year ago I was over 250 pounds. The first 30 pounds I lost was rather quickly but through a well designed diet, and a heavy cardio and decent weight lifting routine. Over the past month or two, I have stayed the same weight but through mostly weight lifting have managed to drop my bf % to 19 from about 22 but stayed at the same weight. So at 19% I have 176 lbs of LBM and 41 lbs of fat.

    Do I start cutting? Do I stick with losing weight? Do I try to put on a little more muscle before trying to cut?

    My goal for now is to be at 200 lbs with 10% body fat, that means I would need to have a LBM of 180 lbs. I don't feel like I have the amount of muscle that should come along with a LBM of 176, but I might be trippin.

    I am currently weight lifting and on a high protein diet, mostly been trying to add LBM while staying at the same weight. I think I have hit a plateau and would like to switch it up.

    Anyways suggestions would be appreciated, I am in a rush but I'll post more info later.

    Paul

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    I would cut for the simple fact that with a lower BF any gains will be more apparent and it will keep you motivated.

    Also I bet if you lost 10lbs of BF you would look 10lbs bigger. I know counter-intuitive, but for the most part it true.

  3. #3
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    It sounds like you have a place to get to, so get there while you've got the motivation., not to mention beach season is just about here.

    How long did it take you to lose the 30 lb? If I'm understanding correctly, you've been stable at this weight now for a couple months, while following the same program? Is this like saying your program has stalled out?

    So now its time to transition to something that will allow you to maybe drop bodyfat at a lower rate - focus on a slower growth to encourage muscle growth instead of all the cardio for fat loss.

    What is your current diet & training & cardio schedule? I.e. can you list out your typical day's meal plan w/ calories, and how much cardio you do , etc.


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    My high was 255. I lost 15 pounds of it and got stuck at 240. After a while I got serious again and brought it down to 220 in 2.5 months.

    Ok so I have only stalled for the last 6 weeks, I shouldn't call it a stall, I have been trying to do a split and build certain things like shoulders, chest, etc. But I am still on a calorie deficit, while taking in almost 200g of protein. 150g carbs. And 30-40 grams of fat. So getting about 1700 calories in.

    I eat about 3 times a day and have two protein shakes (morning, post workout).

    Should I be eating more? My diet hasn't been very stable recently but I just re-upped all my supplements. I wasn't getting my numbers right, sometimes eating more or less of one thing.

    Right now I just began a full body split:
    M:Upper
    T:Lower
    W:off
    T:Upper
    F:Lower

    And I do cardio on off days and sometimes on full upper mondays when my legs are still fresh. I have really large legs that are all muscle and most of my weight is down there. I have a decent amount of fat around my belly, love handles, and chest. I can put pics ups if someone can tell me how.

    Ok thanks again, hope this helps.

  5. #5
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    Thanks for more detail.

    Easy - you're starving yourself. I CUT for competition on that much - I'm 5 inches shorter than you & a girl. It sounds like it worked for a while to get some of the weight off, but now that you're down to more of a weight that your body can support. Now, w/ what you're eating, your metabolism is starting to slow down to accommodate what it sees as a "drought". The idea is that when your body is getting enough calories, enough carbs, enough fats, enough protein, it will run very efficiently (cuz that's how its designed to run!) building muscle and, subsequently more efficiently dropping bodyfat. I think you need to increase your total cals some more - you can ease it up a little each week and watch how your body responds. You should see increases in your lifts, a little increase in weight, but your body composition should start changing.


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    Sassy,

    Ok thanks. The thing is I actually have a hard time getting enough calories in sometimes. Should I be eating more carbs? proteins? fats?

    Also since I am very bottom heavy like I said, is this routine fine? Or should I focus a little more on upper body by isolating?

    Thanks.

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    masterwael, can you give us some more detail on your split? What lifts do you perform, what rep range, what weight do you use... ?
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    I have not been serious enough about my routine, my diet, etc. But I am in the process of building a new routine.

    This is what I have been doing for the last week:
    I usually do 12, 10, 8 reps. Some workouts to failure and what not.
    M: Flat dumbell bench. 55, 60, 65 lb.
    Incline dumbell bench. 50, 55, 60
    Incline barbell bench. 135, 145, 135
    barbell military press. 65, 75, 75 - I was depleted
    bent over one arm db rows (balancing on one foot) - 55, 60, 65
    Lat pd - 110, 120, 130 (only hit 130 about 5 times)
    Assisted pull ups - to failure

    T: squats, deadlifts, front squats, good mornings, and 2 to 3 plyometric or jumping drills.

    And I repeat for thursday and friday.

    Like I said I am in the process of building a routine, so please feel free to add or subtract where you feel it's necessary.

  9. #9
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    Can you list what is in your meals - portions size as well? For one, I'd probably put some carbs in your PWO nutrition. But I still need to see what you're eating - You eat about what I'm eating right now.


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    Workouts look decent, actually. What kind of weights we talking about?
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    Sassy,

    My diet is terrible, I am just going to throw that out there. I am not organized, the only thing I really focus on is my PWO nutrition. That is when I eat my biggest and most nutritous meal. The rest of the day is really just lean meats, fruits and veggies, and the usual oatmeal and egg white breakfast.

    Maybe you can help me devise a good diet. I can handle the food choices, but how much do you think I should be eating? Proteins Carbs Fats?

    Built, I put the weight amounts in my last post. Is that what you are referring to? Do you also want the weights for the full lower body?

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    Yes, for the squats etc please.
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    Ok well like I said, all my weight/muscle is in my lower body. Just to give you an idea, my right calf is about 17 inches or 43.5 cm. and the thighs huge.

    Squats - 135 warm up, 175, 195, 215 (I am sure I can push it and do more, not sure if I should)

    Deadlifts - 155, 185, 205

    front squats - 80, 90, 100 (use the preset straight barbells)

    good mornings - 30, 35, 40

    I have an idea of what I should be doing but need some advice or confirmation on what I am doing. Should I change my reps, sets, weights, anything?

    I have also come to realize that I have been completely starving myself like an idiot. I know the calorie deficiency has led my body to hold on to fat, and also why all my weight lifting is not giving me the definition I need. How does a 2400 calorie diet on a 40/40/20 split sound Sassy? Should I eat even more?

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    I'm not Sassy, but I'd urge you to get away from thinking about your intake as "ratios". Instead, think "LBM-targeted grams". And of course, calories.

    That being said, 2400 is basically my maintenance at 150 lbs, and I'm a middle-aged woman.

    Your lifts look fine. You won't pack on mass while cutting; the best you can hope for is to not LOSE muscle, and lower-rep, lower-volume heavy lifting will take good care of you there.
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  15. #15
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    BTW - i just say macro ratios as a baseline - the point is that it is "someplace" to start and then tweak from.


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    I understand, and of course you've been at this for a long time so you know your body well.

    But the ratio approach has a number of methodological flaws, which are bypassed entirely by simply reporting grams, calories, and lean mass.

    Easier for most folks to manage, too, thanks to the likes of fitday.
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  17. #17
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    I was referring to sassy69 as she was giving me nutritional advice in this thread. Thanks, I am going to stick with these lifts and see how I like them.

    Looks like I just need to tweak my diet, and the rest is good to go. I guess this "stall" I have been in is because I am not eating enough? Sounds simple but it makes sense.

    Going to give it a go here, hopefully I can break this plateau sooner rather than later. Anything else that may be detrimental or very beneficial I should know about?

    Thanks again.

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    Well I haven't been using ratios, just was referring to it when asking if the 2400 calories was good. I have been going strictly on grams (which in turn calculates calories.)

    I guess I meant to say I was looking to get 200g of protien, 200g of carbs, and 100g of fat. That puts me at about 2500 calories. The diet is really what I am more concerned about, and am lacking proper knowledge regarding it's relationship to my workouts and goals (which is to eventually be at 200 with a lbm of 180, so a bfp of 10%).

    My LBM is 177 lbs. Does this diet (give or take) sound good to be losing fat and maintaining muscle at comfortable rate?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Built View Post
    I understand, and of course you've been at this for a long time so you know your body well.

    But the ratio approach has a number of methodological flaws, which are bypassed entirely by simply reporting grams, calories, and lean mass.

    Easier for most folks to manage, too, thanks to the likes of fitday.
    Here's my rules of thumb as a starting point:

    Baseline macros: 40/30/30
    Protein (grams/day) = 1-1.5 x weight
    total cals / day = 10-15 x weight
    35-50 g protein / meal can be metabolized in 1 sitting.
    Last edited by sassy69; 04-25-2010 at 11:37 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by sassy69 View Post
    Here's my rules of thumb as a starting point:

    Baseline macros: 40/30/30
    Protein (grams/day) = 1-1.5 x weight
    total cals / day = 10-15 x weight
    Sassy,

    Your protein recommendation is of course solid.

    I like to additionally suggest half a gram of fat per pound lbm as a minimum (for ordinary dieting - obviously this is different for carbups, contest prep etc) as well.

    However, I like to anchor these to something less variable than "calories". Avoiding percentages solves the problem of reduced protein intake while cutting. I mean, why use percentages AND grams? Percentages really are redundant here.

    I said earlier (elsewhere?) - if you're eating at maintenance, it won't matter if you target your macros to your total calories. Hell, it won't matter if you anchor them to the length of your nose! But you end up having to change the percentages when you start bulking or cutting, or you can get some very weird numbers, especially for those whose metabolic rate is somewhat uncoupled from their lean mass.

    Using LBM-targeted grams, you're driving standard.

    Using percentages, you're backing up an automagic while looking in the rear-view mirror.

    Quote Originally Posted by sassy69 View Post
    35-50 g protein / meal can be metabolized in 1 sitting.
    35-50g can me metabolized in one sitting? How do you figure that?
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Built View Post


    35-50g can me metabolized in one sitting? How do you figure that?
    I may or may not have seen some study within the last 10 yrs but, as I said these are rules of thumb - this is the guidance I've gotten from every trainer I"ve ever worked with (several differernt ones across the country w/ no relation to each other and each following everything from keto to carb cyclign to whatever the hell you like).

    This is similar to the guidance of 4-5 oz of chicken / meal for women, more like 6 oz for men.

    As we know there is probably no ONE CORRECT WAY to determine anything within 'nutrition' because there are so many metabolic functions involved, and even things that people calculate have wide margins of error because of this - so call it "from experience", as backed by a wide range of others' "operational experience".


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    4-5 ounces of chicken for a woman? Really?

    I can't imagine eating so little for a meal!

    I respect your background and your success, Sassy, and I mean no disrespect, but repetition does not make it true.
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