Please give me feedback on my diet/exercise regime

[Kenny537]

Hello,

Please see my plan here:

It will not let me post links or images since I am new, so please see attached.

I am 22 years old, male, 170 lbs, 5'7", vegetarian.

I am starting p90x again, I have done it a couple times in the past, but on and off, never consistently, hopefully I can change that this time. I would still classify myself as a beginner.

I know that I cannot lose weight and gain mass - therefore my goal currently is to lose weight. I am nearly 25% body fat, and my goal is to get that down to maybe 12-15%, and to get a six pack. I would not be considered fat, but I would say I have manboobs or "moobs". I want to get rid of that moob look.

I am thinking about 1800 calories a day, would this be right? What do you think of my diet/exercise regime? As you can see, I am unsure what to eat on the day I do Yoga.. and also unsure what to eat and how much to eat on my rest day (Saturday).

I am trying to emulate this:
Meal 1 (wake up) - [Protein + Complex Carb] + Fruits/Veggies
Meal 2 (few hours later) - [Protein + Complex Carb] + Fruits/Veggies
Meal 3 (few hours later, pre-workout) - [Protein + Complex Carb] + Fruits/Veggies
Meal 4 (immediate post-workout) - [Protein + Complex Carb] + Fruits
Meal 5 (few hours later) - [Protein + Fat] + Fruits/Veggies
Meal 6 (few hours later) - [Protein + Fat] + Fruits/Veggies
Meal 7 (bedtime) - [Protein + Fat] + Fruits/Veggies

Also, I am operating under the assumption that my first meal of the day should be a complete protein + complex carb, and that I should eat a slow-digesting protein and complex carb before going to sleep. Another couple things that I have read is that most of your carbs should be eaten after your workout, and before the afternoon on non-workout days. Is all this true?

Any tips and advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Kenny537]

Anyone?

I changed my diet plan again

I haven't really followed the p90x nutrition plan - rather I formed my diet based on things I have read online. I am trying to stay near the 1700-1800 calories a day range. This is the total calories consumed, not the net calories consumed after my workout. I assume that most people say their total calories consumed when they say how many carlories they are trying to eat, right? I am reading that losing weight is simple math - use up more calories then you take in .. however this is not making any sense to me. I burn an average of 600 calories with a p90x exercise, right? That would mean I would have to eat less than 600 calories a day? That makes no sense at all and I am sure no one would recommend that. My net calories consumed is about 1100-1200 - which is still a surplus. So how would I lose weight? I think I have actually gained a couple pounds - but I am almost sure that this is muscle gain, since I have been doing lifting along with cardio (I can tell its muscle gain because my forearms are like a rock now!)


Anyways, here is my diet (all in grams):

(water throughout day)

6:30 AM - (wake up) - 1 cup goat milk + 1 banana + 1 scoop whey (optimum nutrition) - then right after that I take a multivitamin and flax seed cap with water
8 g fat
51 g carb
32 g protein
(365 calories)

9:30 AM - quinoa (around 1/2 cup cooked) + lentil soup (around 3/4 cup)
1 fat
34 carb
10g protein
(138 calories)


12:30 PM - 3/4 cup egg white omelet with some greens (kale, spinach, brocolli, and asparagus) + apple

0 fat
25 carb
21 protein
(215 calories)

3:30 or 4 PM - 3/4 cup chickpeas, 1/4 cup dark red kidney beans, 1/4 cup black beans (all low sodium)

2 fat
69 carb
19 protein
(260 calories)

6:00 PM - Protein bar + Superpump 250(I have never drank much caffeine in my life, and I have been getting headaches recently .. earaches initially on.. but those have passed..should I stop doing this? I think it helps a lot - should I take jack3d instead?)

superpump = 8 carbs (32 calories)
no protein bar included since I am stopping that



6:30 or 7 PM until 9 PM - workout and then p90x recovery drink packet
2 fat
40 carb
10 protein
(220 calories)

10:30 - 11:30 PM - fat free cottage cheese (1 or 1.5 cups) + a few tbps of peanut butter + a handful slices of avocado + a little high lignan flaxseed oil (barleans) + hot sauce, and maybe a few almonds and walnuts.
42 fat
39 carb
44 protein
(650 calories) *I am doing this to combine healthy fats in order to slow down the digestion of the casein protein even further. Is this too much fat though?



Totals:

55g fats
266g carbs
136g protein
almost 1900 calories

After reading through the macros of this diet.. it looks like I have way too many carbs. Would you agree? If so, any suggestions on how to lessen them? Some of the proteins I eat are tied to the high carbs, like the quinoa, lentils, recovery drink, legumes, etc. I could get rid of the banana in the morning.. what else?


So knowing that I am trying to lose fat - what do you think of this diet? If you think it will help maximize my results - would you recommend I stick to this exact diet everyday? Even on Yoga day? What about on the stretch day? What about on days that I cannot workout because of an emergency or unexpected conflict?

As you can see, I am only taking whey once a day, and only one scoop. I am reading a site that recommends taking it once in the morning (like I am) - and also once hour after my workout, assuming that I take the recovery drink right after the workout. My concern with that is: 1. If I take the whey one hour after I workout, it will already be like 9:30 or 10 PM when I take it, and I will have eat my casein cottage cheese protein a mere hour or less later. Would this be fine? My other concern is that it will add more calories. Would you agree with that recommendation knowing my situation? Or an alternative would be putting 2 scoops instead of 1 in the morning.

Another concern I have is that I know that I am supposed to take a slow digesting casein protein before going to bed, which I do. But I have also read that the first meal of the day should be a complete protein and a complex carb. So I take whey - that's a complete protein right? If it is, I still have to worry about the carb. I am not even sure what goat milk is - is that a complex carb, or a simple carb, or a protein? Probably a mix, but I have heard the carbs for milk are not complex. what about the banana - is that a complex carb? If not, then I should modify it to include a complex carb, correct?

I am reading about shakeology as a meal replacement - is this something I should look into?

Also, some people are taking glutamine, but I have no idea what that is or what it means, so I am hoping you could shed some light on that. Is this something I should take - if so why?

As for creatine - it seems like it as many benefits, but I am reading that I should hold off on it if I am trying to lose fat - is this true?

Like you saw, I am taking a few tbps of peanut butter at night - is this fine? I am using one that is healthy and all natural.

What is insulinogenesis? Something I should look into ?

That post actually helped me a lot. What is your opinion?

Sorry for bombarding you with questions.

Thanks a lot!

 

[JohhnySou]

If you're trying to bulk i would cut down the carbs and add protein same goes for if you're trying to cut.

if you're trying to cut you should have your carbs 30% of your calorie intake and with 1900 that would come to around 90g carbs. up the protein imo.

i run 50% protein/30%carbs/20%fat. Thats all in trying to cut down tho.

Theres a great section to read in the stickys, provides you with how you can find the figures in the kind of diet you want to create for what goal you're trying to reach, as well as tools and calculators.

Hope this helped!

 

[Kenny537]

It does help, but it's hard for me to up the protein since I am vegetarian. How do I do this when the legumes and the protein and the lentils, all great protein sources, are also loaded with carbs?

Just stick to tofu and whey shakes?

 

[gtbmed]

Do you eat eggs?

 

[Kenny537]

yeah if you look at my diet, I eat an egg white omelet everyday

I have nearly 300 carbs .. according to the p90x nutrition guide - I should be eating about 2400-3000 calories a day, and also be at a 50/30/20 ratio of protein/carbs/fat during this phase of the program. I am eating only about 1800 calories and nowhere near that ratio, as my carbs are through the roof. Is this not a problem?

 

[Kenny537]

Here is my newly created diet plan: this is the closest I can get to 50% protein, 30 % carbs, 20% fat.

I am restarting p90x week 1 tomorrow with this diet:


6 30 AM: Whey protein + banana + goat milk - 470 cals (42c, 9f, 57p)

9 15 AM: Greek Style Low Fat Plain Yogurt - 160 cals (9c, 3f, 24p)

12 15 PM: liquid egg white omelet + spinach + broccoli - 260 cals (12c, 0f, 50p)

3 PM: Whey protein shake (with just water) - 240 cals (8c, 2f, 48p)

5 15 PM: Tofu + apple - 330cals (17c, 13f, 30p)

6 PM: Superpump 250 - 38 cals (9c, 0f, 0p)

8 30 PM: p90x Recovery Drink - 220 cals (39c, 2f, 10p)

10 15 PM: Whey protein shake (with just water) - 120 cals (4c, 1f, 24p)

11 30 PM - 12 AM: Cottage cheese + avocado + flax seed oil (26c, 21f, 44p)


Totals:

2273 calories

166 carbs, 51 fat, 287 protein

I did not reach the 2400 calorie mark with 300 protein, 180 carbs, and 53 fat... but its pretty close. Not sure what else I can do.

How is that? The thing that concerns me is all those carbs at night because of the cottage cheese .. but I need the casein right? I assume the casein protein powder does not have as much carbs.. should I do that? I kind of already have so much whey powder in there though. Either way, I feel much better about this diet than the one before. I'll do this for the first phase (4 weeks) before slowly highering my carbs and lowering my protein, fats stay consistent (all according to p90x nutrition plan).

Any feedback would be appreciated - thanks!

 

[Built]

If you're trying to bulk i would cut down the carbs and add protein same goes for if you're trying to cut.

if you're trying to cut you should have your carbs 30% of your calorie intake and with 1900 that would come to around 90g carbs. up the protein imo.

i run 50% protein/30%carbs/20%fat. Thats all in trying to cut down tho.

Theres a great section to read in the stickys, provides you with how you can find the figures in the kind of diet you want to create for what goal you're trying to reach, as well as tools and calculators.

Hope this helped!

The ratios obfuscate what's really going on with your diet. Focus on the grams and the calories.

yeah if you look at my diet, I eat an egg white omelet everyday

I have nearly 300 carbs .. according to the p90x nutrition guide - I should be eating about 2400-3000 calories a day, and also be at a 50/30/20 ratio of protein/carbs/fat during this phase of the program. I am eating only about 1800 calories and nowhere near that ratio, as my carbs are through the roof. Is this not a problem?

Again, the ratios are something you need to move beyond.

Here is my newly created diet plan: this is the closest I can get to 50% protein, 30 % carbs, 20% fat.

I am restarting p90x week 1 tomorrow with this diet:


6 30 AM: Whey protein + banana + goat milk - 470 cals (42c, 9f, 57p)

9 15 AM: Greek Style Low Fat Plain Yogurt - 160 cals (9c, 3f, 24p)

12 15 PM: liquid egg white omelet + spinach + broccoli - 260 cals (12c, 0f, 50p)

3 PM: Whey protein shake (with just water) - 240 cals (8c, 2f, 48p)

5 15 PM: Tofu + apple - 330cals (17c, 13f, 30p)

6 PM: Superpump 250 - 38 cals (9c, 0f, 0p)

8 30 PM: p90x Recovery Drink - 220 cals (39c, 2f, 10p)

10 15 PM: Whey protein shake (with just water) - 120 cals (4c, 1f, 24p)

11 30 PM - 12 AM: Cottage cheese + avocado + flax seed oil (26c, 21f, 44p)


Totals:

2273 calories

166 carbs, 51 fat, 287 protein

I did not reach the 2400 calorie mark with 300 protein, 180 carbs, and 53 fat... but its pretty close. Not sure what else I can do.

How is that? The thing that concerns me is all those carbs at night because of the cottage cheese .. but I need the casein right? I assume the casein protein powder does not have as much carbs.. should I do that? I kind of already have so much whey powder in there though. Either way, I feel much better about this diet than the one before. I'll do this for the first phase (4 weeks) before slowly highering my carbs and lowering my protein, fats stay consistent (all according to p90x nutrition plan).

Any feedback would be appreciated - thanks!

I eat most of my carbs at night, especially while cutting. I train at night, so this works for me. I don't eat carbs in the AM - I eat a fairly high fat diet through the day, moderate protein and very low carb outside the training window.

Do you train in the AM or the PM?

Are you losing weight now? How fast?

Also, vegetarians especially can benefit from creatine. If you're not already doing so, I highly recommend 5g a day every day.

 

[Kenny537]

Thanks for the input.

I am not sure I understand how the ratios obfuscate. Could you expand on that please?

I train in the evening after I work. Around 6 30 PM. So yes, at night. But I don't sleep til around midnight (ideally). So I'm only getting around 6 hrs of sleep unfortunately. I try to fall asleep earlier but I just can't for some reason.

I am guessing that I am losing weight... but I am not sure. In the week that I have been training, I have seen some muscle improvements in my arms.. but my weight has been at about 170 consistently. I believe this is because I am losing fat and gaining muscle so it's evening out. I am going to measure my body fat % tonight with skinfolds so hopefully I can keep track of my progress that way.

I read that creatine is beneficial for when you are bulking, and should not be used when cutting. Is this not true?

Thanks

 

[juggernaut]

I cant even say or define obfuscate...let along use it in a sentence right.

And why not basic weight training instead of p90x?

 

[Hubauer]

That p90x gets your blood pumping! I did it for about 2 weeks with a friend... we always did the workouts at night, and I had trouble falling asleep even if I was tired.

But if I lift at night, I can pass clean out when I get back.

- Hubauer

 

[juggernaut]

That p90x gets your blood pumping! I did it for about 2 weeks with a friend... we always did the workouts at night, and I had trouble falling asleep even if I was tired.

But if I lift at night, I can pass clean out when I get back.

- Hubauer

Try a Javorek Complex. Hands down they very easily will beat the shit out of you.
Oh, and you're not paying a bazillion dollars for the free information.

 

[Built]

Try a Javorek Complex. Hands down they very easily will beat the shit out of you.
Oh, and you're not paying a bazillion dollars for the free information.

Complexes will leave you searching for the puke-bucket faster than you could imagine.

 

[Simply_Michael]

I agree built even Randy Couture MMA on YouTube sucks

 

[Simply_Michael]

bunch of complexes better than p90x

------------------------------------------------------------------
Complex A 5x5
Row
Clean
Front squat
Military press
Back squat
Good mornings
------------------------------------------------------------------
Complex B 5x5
Deadlift
Clean-grip high pull
Clean-grip snatch
Back squat
Good mornings
Row
------------------------------------------------------------------
Complex C 5x5
Hang snatch
Overhead squat
Back squat
Good mornings
Row
Deadlift
------------------------------------------------------------------
Complex D 5x5
Upright row
Clean-grip snatch
Back squat
Behind the neck press
Good mornings
Row
------------------------------------------------------------------
Complex E 5x5
Power clean
Military press
Back squat
Good mornings
Behind the neck press
Front squat
------------------------------------------------------------------
Complex F 5x5
Overhead squat
Back squat
Good morning
Front squat
Rows
Deadlift
------------------------------------------------------------------
Complex G 5x5
Romanian Deadlift
Hang Clean + Front Squat + Push Press (combo lift ??? perform one rep of each in series)
Reverse Lunge (alternate legs)
------------------------------------------------------------------
Complex H 5x5
High Pull (onto toes)
Squat Clean (clean the bar from the hang and then drop into a full squat on the catch)
Military Press (strict)
Jump Lunges (switch legs)
------------------------------------------------------------------
Complex I 5x5
Jump Squat
Squat
Squat and hold for 10s
Military Press
Push Press
Squat and Press
------------------------------------------------------------------
Bloody Barbell Complex (repeat 4 times)
Overhead squat for 10 reps
Hang clean for 10 reps
Standing military press for 10 reps
Bentover row for 10 reps
Lunge for 10 reps on each leg
Romanian deadlift for 20 reps
Front squat for 10 reps
Standing calf raise (barbell across upper back) for 30 reps
------------------------------------------------------------------
Bloody Dumbbell Complex (repeat 4 times)
Standing hammer curl for 5 reps
Standing alternating shoulder press for 10 reps with each arm
Forward lunge for 10 reps with each leg
Bentover alternating row for 10 reps with each arm
Reverse lunge with overhead press (palms facing each other) for 10 reps with each leg
Romanian deadlift for 20 reps
Standing calf raise (arms hanging at sides) for 30 reps
------------------------------------------------------------------
Cosgrove???s Evil 8
Deadlift
Romanian Deadlift
Bentover Row
Power Clean
Front Squat
Push Press
Back Squat
Good Morning

On round one, perform 6 reps of each exercise, Rest 90 seconds after the first circuit, then perform 5 reps of each in the next circuit; rest 90 seconds, 4 reps of each; rest 90 seconds, 3 reps of each; rest 90 seconds, 2 reps of each; rest 90 seconds, and then do 1 rep of each.


Tumminello's Weight Plate Metabolic Circuit (use an olympic plate)
5 sets with 90 sec recovery

Overhead Squat x 6-8
Swings (like kettlebell swings) x 6-8
Bentover Row x 8-10
Reverse Lunge and Twist x 8-10 total
Diagonal Chops x 6-8 each side
------------------------------------------------------------------
Waterbury???s Submission Complex
Reverse Lunges, 6 reps on each leg
Romanian Deadlift, 12 reps
Good Morning, 12 reps
Front Squat, 6 reps
Military Press, 6 reps
Bentover Row, 6 reps
Floor Press, 12 reps
Rest 60 seconds and repeat 2-4 more times depending on your testicular fortitude.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Ferrugia???s Timed Complex
The goal of this complex is speed. Start a timer and perform it once through, 6 reps for every movement. The next time you perform it, try to beat that time.
Deadlift
Hang Clean
Front Squat
Hang Snatch
Overhead Squat
Front Press
Bentover Row
Romanian Deadlift
------------------------------------------------------------------

10 burpees, varying method
10 prisoner squats
10 lunge-jumps, alternating
20 bent-over reverse flies
10 second front plank, 10 second (left) side plank, 10 second (right) side plank
rest for 1 minute, repeat 10x
------------------------------------------------------------------

3-4 min warm-up
· 1 min sled drags
· 20 sec active recovery
· 1 min overhead medicine ball slams (throw MB at ground from overhead)
· 20 sec active recovery
· 10 swiss ball jackknifes
· 10 push ups (keep feet on swiss ball if possible)
· 30 sec active recovery
Repeat 3-5 more times

3-5 min cool-down

------------------------------------------------------------------


3-4 min warm-up (your choice)
· 15 burpees
· 15 MB Pushups
· 15 MB Crunches
· 30 sec active recovery

Repeat 3-5 more times

Finish up with some sled dragging/sprints if you want

3-5 min cool-down

------------------------------------------------------------------

3-4 minute warm-up (your choice)
· 50 burpees (jump laterally over small medicine ball or foam roller between each burpee) ??? fast as possible. These are full burpees with the jump.

· If you get to 50 burpees and more time is desired, do overhead walking lunges and skips with interval rests until time has elapsed.
3-5 minute cool-down


------------------------------------------------------------------


3-4 min warm-up (your choice)

30/30
30 seconds work, followed by 30 seconds rest, repeat next exercise. I
· Rower
· DB or KB swings (15-40 lbs ??? trial and error)
· One leg hops (jump on 1 leg as high as possible, if not possible do 2 legs)
· Russian Twist
· Sit up and reach with medicine ball
· Mountain climbers
· Skipping (on track or any open space)
Repeat 2-4 times

3-5 min cool-down

------------------------------------------------------------------

3-4 min warm-up (your choice)
· 30 sec jumping jacks
· 30 sec bear crawls
· 30 sec active recovery
· 30 sec jump rope
· 30 sec explosive push ups
· 30 sec active recovery
· 60 sec Sled Drags
· 30 sec active recovery
Repeat 3-5 times

3-5 minute cool-down

A1) Sledgehammer Swing x 20 (10 L/10 R)
rest: none
A2) Push-Ups x 10
rest: none
A3) Alternating Lunge x 20 (10 l/10 R)
rest: 60-sec
A1-A3 are a circuit. Repeat 10 times.
------------------------------------------------------------------
1A) Sandbag clean and push press, 1x10
1B) Sandbag bent-over row, 1x10
1C) Shoulder get-up, 1x5 (each side)
1D) Sandbag shoulder squat, 1x10 (each side)
1E) Sandbag carry, 1x50 yards
------------------------------------------------------------------
[FONT=&quot]

30 Good Mornings (with empty 45lb bar)
21 Atomic Situps
21 Pushups
30 Good Mornings
18 Atomic Situps
18 Pushups
30 Good Mornings
15 Atomic Situps
15 Pushups
30 Good Mornings
12 Atomic Situps
12 Pushups
30 Good Mornings
9 Atomic Situps
9 Pushups
30 Good Mornings
6 Atomic Situps
6 Pushups
30 Good Mornings
3 Atomic Situps
3 Pushups
------------------------------------------------------------------\
Anti-Rodent Routines
Beginner
First pass (of dumbbell): 10 one-arm dumbbell swings with each arm
Second pass: 50 sit-ups
Third pass: 10 one-arm clean and jerks with each arm
Fourth pass: 50 bodyweight squats
Intermediate
First pass: 20 dumbbell snatches with each arm
Second pass: 100 bodyweight squats
Third pass: 15 clean and push presses with each arm
Fourth pass: 50 sit-ups
Advanced
First pass: 10 one-arm dumbbell swings with each arm
Second pass: 50 sit-ups
Third pass: 10 one-arm clean and jerks with each arm
Fourth pass: 50 pushups
Fifth pass: 20 dumbbell snatches with each arm
Sixth pass: 100 bodyweight squats
Seventh pass: 15 clean and push presses with each arm
Eighth pass: 50 sit-ups

Heavy Bag/Dumbbell Combo
Beginner
One minute heavy bag round
10 one-arm dumbbell snatches with each arm
One minute heavy bag round
50 sit-ups
One minute heavy bag round
10 dumbbell swings
One minute heavy bag round
50 bodyweight squats

Intermediate
Same as above, only extend the heavy bag rounds to two minutes.

Advanced
Same as above, only extend the heavy bag rounds to three minutes. You can also add reps to the other exercises.

Jump Rope/Dumbbell Cocktail
Beginner
One minute of rope jumping
10 on-arm dumbbell snatches with each arm
One minute of rope jumping
10 one-arm dumbbell clean and push presses
One minute of rope jumping
10 one-arm dumbbell swings
One minute of rope jumping
10 dumbbell squats

Intermediate
Same as above, only with two minute rounds of rope jumping.

Advanced
Same as above, only with three minute rounds of rope jumping.



· 15 burpees
· 15 Pushups
· 15 Hand Walkouts
· 30 sec active recovery

Repeat 3-5 more times

Cool down and stretch



· 50 burpees (jump laterally over small medicine ball or foam roller between each burpee)
??? fast as possible. These are full burpees with the jump.

Cool Down and Stretch




-15 Prisoner Squats
-15 Pushups
-15 Bulgarian Split Squats Each Side
-15 Mountain Climbers

Repeat 3-5 more times

Cool Down and Stretch



15 burpees
15 prisoner squats
15 Good Mornings
15 Cross Knee Drives from pushup position

Repeat 3-5 more times

Cool Down and Stretch



Tabata Protocol:
20sec work/sprinting followed by 10sec rest repeated 8 times for a total of 4 mins

Some good ideas: burpees, prisoner squats, jump lunges, step ups, spider man climbs, squat jumps, overhead medicine ball slams, squat presses, overhead squats, skipping, running, cycling, cross trainer, rowing machine.




10 squats
10 T pushups
10 body rows
10 lunges

Repeat 3-5 more times

Cool Down and Stretch



15 One leg Deadlifts
15 Star Jumps
15 Spiderman Climbs
60 sec Planks

Repeat 3-5 more times

Cool Down and Stretch



60sec Single Leg Hip Bridge each side
15 Burpees
15 Bench Dips
60sec Side Planks each side

Repeat 3-5 more times

Cool Down and Stretch


(sorry for long post just thought others might like )

 

[juggernaut]

exactly^^^^^^^^^

 

[Hubauer]

Try a Javorek Complex. Hands down they very easily will beat the shit out of you.
Oh, and you're not paying a bazillion dollars for the free information.

I've seen some of those and they look vicious! The p90x isn't really my thing, I did it kind of as a favor for a friend because he wanted to try it. I sure as hell didn't buy the dvds.

Is there a certain benefit to exercise like the Javorek Complexes, aside from giving your workout a change and improving your endurance? I have no doubt that they're good for you, but being a bit of a hardgainer, I avoid that stuff when possible.

 

[Built]

Good for GPP; also good as a substitute for sprinting if you're doing HIIT as part of Stubborn Fatloss Protocols (read daredevils article in my sig).

 

[racer10]

yeah if you look at my diet, I eat an egg white omelet everyday

I have nearly 300 carbs .. according to the p90x nutrition guide - I should be eating about 2400-3000 calories a day, and also be at a 50/30/20 ratio of protein/carbs/fat during this phase of the program. I am eating only about 1800 calories and nowhere near that ratio, as my carbs are through the roof. Is this not a problem?

It's not a problem if your are using up those carbs. My advice would be cut the carbs supplement with protein calories, get in your fat burn heart rate zone and go to town. I can't speak to p90x never done it but most people respond best to 30 min or more in the target heart rate zone for fat loss a day for 5 or so days a week. I've heard p90x is a good program but i personally haven't seen phenomal results from people using it. I believe in omre normalized cardio (biking, running, elliptical , and lifting too) you burn a good amount of calories supersetting in the weight room and build muscle at the same time. My .02. Good luck!

 

[racer10]

Also AM card is a good idea before your first meal. Then you are exercising on a fast. Good for fat consumption by your body.

 

[Kenny537]

A few more questions. What do you guys think of the p90x recovery drink vs whey protein as a PWO?

People tell me that the p90x one has a lower quality protein, and that whey digests faster. According to one person, whey is a protein isolate while p90 is a protein concentrate, a less purer protein which will digest slower and an inferior product. What protein to carb ratio would be best for me for PWO? How much dextrose and maltadextrin? Should I supplement Leucine? What about HMB?

Do you guys recommend anything for a sleep aid? I can't seem to fall asleep at night and am only getting 4-5 hours. I think it is because of the superpump 250.

 

[Marat]

The biggest hindrance to your overall success is your poor programming (p90x) -- what whey shake you drink isn't going to make a difference.

Squat, deadlift, bench press, press, and clean. Find a program that includes most (if not all) of those - at least squats, deadlifts, and the bench. I recommend Baby Got Back by Built, 5/3/1 by Jim Wendler, or Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. There are plenty of other programs as well, but at least sell (or delete) those ridiculous DVDs.

 

[Kenny537]

You're speaking in terms of body building though, right? P90x is more of a cutting program. I will finish the program, then start these bulking programs. Is that not reasonable? I want to cut first.. which brings me to this question:

Should I eat less than my 2300 calories during cardio days? Should my pre and post workout nutrition change? I want to bulk up eventually... but first I want to lose this belly fat.. which I assume means I want to "cut" first. I have already seen noticeable muscle gains in the past couple week though, and have gained a few pounds, but not too much improvement in the belly area.. although I understand that is usually the last to go.

Some people are just telling me to "just stick to the nutrition plan". And I am sure that is true and it works for people. But I want to know WHY it will work. I don't feel comfortable blindly following anything.

 

[Marat]

You're speaking in terms of body building though, right?

Not at all, I think everyone old enough to sit still for a few minutes at a time should participate in resistance training.

P90x is more of a cutting program.

I understand why you may presume so. Unfortunately, P90x is an incomplete modality. The program leaves out the heavy loading required to preserve your lean tissue. You also are not getting stronger -- you might be getting better at doing P90x, but you are not really getting any stronger in a significant, practical sense. I kindly direct that you check out the 'p90x' thread that is floating around the Training section.

I will finish the program, then start these bulking programs. Is that not reasonable?

I certainly understand why that sounds logical but I do not believe it's the best (or like 50th best) course of action to reach your goal. What's your plan in regard to training when you want to bulk? Lift weights? You might as well start now and stop spending your time with activities that won't be getting you stronger. The benefits of lifting weights in comparison to p90x is like finding a dollar versus getting hit by a bus.

Should I eat less than my 2300 calories during cardio days?

You can if you'd like. Feel free to work out the math to take in about 2000 on your cardio days (drop the carbs) and take in about 2600 on your lifting days. It won't exactly work out with those figures but I'll leave the math-ing to you. Or you can not complicate things. I'd recommend starting out with the simpler method (2300cal/ed) and going from there. Make the change if you start stalling.

Should my pre and post workout nutrition change?

Some low fiber carbs with some protein and relatively low fat pre workout and basically the same after. However, there is a ton of evidence (that I don't feel like looking for now) that suggests that we shouldn't be eating carbs after training, despite decades of the opposite being recommend, due to a bunch of insulin related 'stuff'. But whatever, go with the carbs and protein post workout for now.

I have already seen noticeable muscle gains in the past couple week though

You've been in a caloric deficit right? Unless you had a bunch of muscle that has been lost, or you are just starting out with training , or you're injecting a bunch of anabolics, you almost definitely are not gaining muscle. Perhaps you are getting stronger, but probably no actual muscle tissue.

but not too much improvement in the belly area.. although I understand that is usually the last to go

That is the truth.

Some people are just telling me to "just stick to the nutrition plan". And I am sure that is true and it works for people. But I want to know WHY it will work. I don't feel comfortable blindly following anything.

Why it works? You'll probably be in a caloric deficit at 2300 calories. You're body doesn't care (it's actually fighting against you) about you're goals but it does care about getting its energy. Like the US Government, but I digress. Anyway, your not supplying the energy through food so the body needs to supplement the energy deficiency by grabbing energy from your second most readily available energy stores (fat). Protein 'stored' (it's not actually stored in the sense that fat is) is not a preferred energy source but you're body will be happy to gobble it up if you don't convince it that it should probably hold onto it. You do this by resistance training -- heavy resistance training. P90x does not provide this and therefore it is an incomplete training modality. With a balanced diet, you can ride out the fat loss to your goals of 12-15%.

The reason that starving yourself or just doing a ton of cardio and not lifting weights is ineffective is due to the negative effects that those behaviors have on your hormonal profile. It's not really that interesting if you aren't...interested. Feel free to google some stuff about leptin, ghrelin, testosterone, CCK, T3/T4 if you want to learn more about why you cannot just eat like 1800 calories, do P90x and get away with it.

An aside: you actually can go very low in calories but you need to be a bit trickier with it. Something like a protein sparing modified fast (PSMF) can perhaps be effective for you at some point. Lyle McDonald wrote a book on it - The Rapid Fatloss Handbook.

However, I recommend starting simple and then moving on from there.

If that doesn't cover your question, feel free to copy and paste your previous post into a fresh post or ask for elaboration somewhere.

 

[200+]

It does help, but it's hard for me to up the protein since I am vegetarian. How do I do this when the legumes and the protein and the lentils, all great protein sources, are also loaded with carbs?

Just stick to tofu and whey shakes?

I have been a vegetarian for 8 years or so up until recently; I eat fish now. I would get most of my protein from whey and casein. I would get a little tired of the whey shakes contently but it worked well for me at the time. How much whey do you consume a day?

 

[Kenny537]

200+ - I consume about 5 scoops of whey per day




M11 - I read the p90x thread and I think I understand the overall point. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe they are trying to say p90x will help you get fit, but so will anything else, and it's a waste of money to pay for it - and it will not help you gain lots of muscle, just fit... which can be done for free.

I do not doubt that, but the reason I am hesitant to give up p90x is because I need some sort of structure and also some sort of motivation. Maybe I don't.. who knows. But I would definitely feel lost if I just stopped doing the program. If I stop p90x and start over .. I think a good starting point would be that link in your signature - that seems catered to new people like me.


As far as my plan in regards to when I want to bulk - I figured after I lost my fat I would look into bulking programs. I don't seem to be losing any fat though - I gained a few pounds. Am I intaking too many calories? I don't even know if I have been in a caloric deficit.. this is really confusing. I am intaking about 2300 calories .. I am guessing I am burning at least 500 calories.. how do I know if I am in a deficit.

So you're saying you recommend 2000 calories a day on cardio days and 2600 on lifting days. Should I still main the 50/30/20 ratio of protein carbs fats? You want me to lower the carbs on cardio days .. by how much though? You want me to not complicate things.. but I'm sorry - I am just going to feel like crap everytime I eat now if I don't know what I'm doing - in order to achieve my goals - I need to know what is best for me to eat and when and how much!

I have never heard of evidence that claims that you should not go for the insulin spike for PWO. Do you? Please let me know when you can get the evidence for me . So youre saying intead of simple carb sugars, I should eat some low fiber carbs like veggies with my whey protein for pre and post wokout nutrition? How far apart should they be from my workout? How much low fiber carbs?


Thanks!

 

[Built]

Kenny, you know you're in a caloric deficit the same way you know you're spending too much money: your "balance" goes down. If your scale isn't dropping, you're at (or over) maintenance.

Are you weighing your food? There is a lot of measurement error in eyeballing portions.

Regarding m11's post - there's a bit more to consider with p90x - it's not that it will get you into shape, that part is indeed true for many programmes, but there's a big difference between what you can reasonably expect to be able to do as a "normal-weight" person eating enough food to ensure no weight is lost, from what you can sustain while dieting. It's like running a business - in a deficit, you don't increase expenditure (unless you're the government!) - instead, you look for new ways to become efficient. So does your body - it tosses out unnecessary muscle so you don't have to burn so much fuel. Increase your activity through a programme like p90x, where the weights you lift are not heavy but you're doing a lot of work - your body gets an even stronger message: "ditch these muscles NOW - he's burning way too much fuel and we have to try to prevent weight-loss!". Probably not what you really want.

Furthermore, with resources low, it becomes very hard for your body to heal injuries. As you lose muscle, so to do you lose the ability to promote protein synthesis and tissue remodeling. Simply put, you start to wear out. The level of activity becomes increasingly unsustainable as your appetite soars (leptin down, ghrelin up), your metabolism slows to a crawl (thyroid down) and your body falls apart (cortisol up).

If you somehow manage to exercise your way down to the bodyfat level you desire, you will now have to figure out how to maintain the loss.

I have yet to meet a soul who has lost weight this way and sustained it for any reasonable length of time. To maintain the loss, you either have to maintain that level of activity, OR learn to eat a lot less, forever, or both.

Now, if you are an otherwise fit person with say 5 lbs to lose (but no more), you'll manage just fine with p90x - provided you stop after a month or so. You'll probably lose a bit of muscle along the way, but you won't need to run a tremendous deficit while you do the programme. If you are lean enough and use p90x for conditioning, while eating at maintenance, you'll manage even better.

It's like marathon training: do NOT try to use it for weight loss. It'll beat the shit out of you while slowing your metabolism. But once you lose the weight, and can eat to ensure that you don't lose any weight, your body will recover well enough and you won't beat the shit out of it by being overweight while pounding it into the road - so you'll be able to build up your training base.

Kenny, lose the weight, then learn to maintain the loss for a while. Once you have that nailed, you'll become a member of a very elite club - very few people maintain the fat they lose, and this step is critical or bulking will be a journey back to obesity. I know of whence I speak - I was fat through most of the 80s and 90s back in my cardio bunny days.

 

[Built]

I do not doubt that, but the reason I am hesitant to give up p90x is because I need some sort of structure and also some sort of motivation. Maybe I don't.. who knows. But I would definitely feel lost if I just stopped doing the program. If I stop p90x and start over .. I think a good starting point would be that link in your signature - that seems catered to new people like me.

That's why I wrote it.

As far as my plan in regards to when I want to bulk - I figured after I lost my fat I would look into bulking programs. I don't seem to be losing any fat though - I gained a few pounds. Am I intaking too many calories? I don't even know if I have been in a caloric deficit.. this is really confusing. I am intaking about 2300 calories .. I am guessing I am burning at least 500 calories.. how do I know if I am in a deficit.

From this point forward, ignore the calories you burn. Track only those you consume, and your weight. If you lose, you're in a deficit. Pretend exercise burns exactly nothing - it's just easier that way.

Should I still main the 50/30/20 ratio of protein carbs fats?

Once you read the link in my sig on getting started, you'll see that there is no real logic behind dietary "ratios" - pay attention to the grams and the calories.

You want me to lower the carbs on cardio days .. by how much though? You want me to not complicate things.. but I'm sorry - I am just going to feel like crap everytime I eat now if I don't know what I'm doing - in order to achieve my goals - I need to know what is best for me to eat and when and how much!

Just breathe, and get your fitday going.

I have never heard of evidence that claims that you should not go for the insulin spike for PWO. Do you? Please let me know when you can get the evidence for me . So youre saying intead of simple carb sugars, I should eat some low fiber carbs like veggies with my whey protein for pre and post wokout nutrition? How far apart should they be from my workout? How much low fiber carbs?


Thanks!

Current (and even former) fatties like us really don't need an insulin spike. It's highly overblown. You need to remember that much of the research on this was done on lean male college athletes. In obesity, insulin sensitivity is impaired - but movement improves glucose uptake through GLUT-4 (glucose transporters). This should help the pre-workout carb make better sense to you. Eat a bit of carb, THEN lift. After training, go back to the comfort of protein and fat so you don't overstimulate appetite.

It really does mostly come down to comfort. If your diet is so miserable you can't sustain it, you're not going to lose anything, are you?

 

[Kenny537]

Thanks for the feedback Built.

Current fatties like you? You're not fat! Are you saying that fat people don't need an insulin spike, and only lean athletes? For obese people, the insulin spike is useless? I am not obese though. Sorry, you just confused me more. I read in your blog about comfort and I agree.

I have started reading your blog and it is very helpful!

One thing I am struggling with is how to design my diet the way you are specifying. I have to start out by calculating my LBM. The problem is that I don't know my body fat %. I used one of those digital ones last month and it said 25%. But that is the one that you just hold out with both your hands and it does it for you... so I don't think it's right. I am sure I do have a high body fat %, just not that high. I was a little chubby in high school and my first year of college (I'm 22 now) but now I don't think I would be considered fat by anyone, and I actually do have some muscle.. But it's sort of hard to describe. Do you think it would be a good idea to post some pictures? I will if it will help you help me .

So my point is that you are saying take 90% of my "pipe dream" weight, and that is how I calculate my LBM. The problem is that I have no idea what my pipe dream weight is. My pipe dream is that I would like to lose my belly fat and have a six pack, and then get more bulkier. So the first step is to lose my belly fat.. but I assume in the process of losing that belly fat.. I am gaining muscle. So I have no idea how to calculate my pipe dream weight. Am I overcomplicating this? In your design, the macros and calories depend on your LBM, so it is obviously very important and I want to make sure I get it right.

I weight 172 right now. I am guessing if I weigh 140, I will have less body fat (hopefully). But at the same time.. I don't want to weight 140 because I don't want to look like a scrawny stick figure.

You are saying in your blog that resistance training will increase your metabolism and you will be burning calories long after you are done, while steady state cardio only burns calories in the process. Therefore, for resistance training, your body needs more energy, so you should eat more. I want to lose fat first, so I should do resistance training so my metabolism improves and I burn calories longer. However, that means I should eat more. However, you are saying to cut (cutting means the same thing as losing fat I am assuming), I have to drop total cals by 10-20%. I cannot drop cals and eat more at the same time. So that leads me to conclude that I am failing to understand something here. Please help!

Thanks!

 

[Built]

I am not fat. I'm a former fatty. Once you've been fat, your appetite will never respond like it would have, had you never become fat. It changes you forever.

Thank you for reading my blog!

For the bodyfat thing, how about we say "20%" as a rough estimate? Use 80% of your current weight for an estimate of your lean mass, and assume it's right. It'll be close enough for this purpose. That puts you at around 135-140 lbs lean mass, and you'll probably have abs at around 150-155. That sound about right? If so, consider you have 140 lbs of lean mass and use that for a target - it'll really be close enough to anchor protein and fat minimums.

Pretend for now that all exercise burns nothing at all.

Eat less, you'll drop weight. Muscle, fat... everything.

Eat less and lift heavy weights, and you'll protect muscle; however, your body MUST drop weight because of the caloric deficit you create by eating less. Thus you will drop fat.

Now, stop thinking and just do it. Okay? Ignore the need for an insulin spike for now. Eat at a deficit, and make sure you get in at least 140g protein, 70g fat and 25g fibre daily. Eat as often or as infrequently as you wish. Lift heavy compounds three times a week, and do a little cardio (walking is fine) as often as you like.